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Does anyone else want to see genetic engineering or cybernetics embraced?


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#1
Inprea

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When it comes to sci-fi settings I'm always a fan of cybernetics and genetic engineering. I rather like the start of up Mass Effect 2 when we see the cybernetic implants being used. However Mass Effect never really does much with it and for some reason the people of the ME universe really seem to reject cybernetics which seems kind of strange to me considering the alien threats they're dealing with. I was even a bit annoyed that renegade Shepard could flaunt her/his cybernetics but paragon couldn't.

 

Personally I'd really like to see this explore more in the next mass effect. Perhaps the player character could even opt for some illegal upgrades.

 

Besides when I consider the cybernetics we're working on even now I have to think the stuff we'd have with a 300 year technological jump would be amazing.


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#2
SwobyJ

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Absolutely.


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#3
katamuro

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the big part of why both genetic engineering and cybernetics are downplayed is that with the alien species preserving the humanity in its more or less standard state is more important than getting a leg up on aliens with widespread cybernetics and genetic engineering. 

 

Even then in ME universe they use genetic engineering, in both ME1 and ME2 you meet a couple who argue about the genetic enhancements of the child. All alliance soldiers go through the genetic enhancement program.And cybernetics are also used but are downplayed to keep in line with human standard. 

 

kasumi's loyalty mission has to do with a certain cybernetic enhancement, that she also possesses. And probably plenty of people have cybernetics, but they are not flaunted, they are optimized to look as natural as possible.


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#4
wright1978

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I'd love to see it if it was maturely handled.


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#5
Linkenski

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Yeah. ME2 kind of set this idea up but it took it nowhere.

 

I'd like to see them handle it again with some actual meat to it.


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#6
Inprea

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the big part of why both genetic engineering and cybernetics are downplayed is that with the alien species preserving the humanity in its more or less standard state is more important than getting a leg up on aliens with widespread cybernetics and genetic engineering. 

 

Even then in ME universe they use genetic engineering, in both ME1 and ME2 you meet a couple who argue about the genetic enhancements of the child. All alliance soldiers go through the genetic enhancement program.And cybernetics are also used but are downplayed to keep in line with human standard. 

 

kasumi's loyalty mission has to do with a certain cybernetic enhancement, that she also possesses. And probably plenty of people have cybernetics, but they are not flaunted, they are optimized to look as natural as possible.

 

Such things strike me as borderline religious. The human body is sacred therefore we should not tamper with it more then we must. I can understand that a culture might embrace such beliefs but it's also like saying you'd rather see a 30% increased casualty rating during combat then lift the restrictions on genetic engineering or cybernetics. I'm thinking on the salesman from Mass Effect who's selling genetic enhancements for front line soldiers.

 

It's true that the cybernetics and the like are there though. What I'd like to be able to do is really embrace them though.

 

That said I believe the level of genetic engineering and cybernetics in the ME universe is quite lacking for a technological jump of several hundred years.


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#7
Han Shot First

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Yes.

 

If it wasn't done in a space magicky way. Something like the Sarif corporation from Deus Ex? Absolutely. 

 

Characters jumping into a beam of light and somehow spreading their 'essence' all over the galaxy, turning every form of life into a partially synthetic organism at the cellular level, and all for all time?  NOPE!


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#8
katamuro

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Such things strike me as borderline religious. The human body is sacred therefore we should not tamper with it more then we must. I can understand that a culture might embrace such beliefs but it's also like saying you'd rather see a 30% increased casualty rating during combat then lift the restrictions on genetic engineering or cybernetics. I'm thinking on the salesman from Mass Effect who's selling genetic enhancements for front line soldiers.

 

It's true that the cybernetics and the like are there though. What I'd like to be able to do is really embrace them though.

 

That said I believe the level of genetic engineering and cybernetics in the ME universe is quite lacking for a technological jump of several hundred years.

 

The part you are missing it seems is that both of them exist, especially genetic engineering, but they are used sparingly, without cardinal changes to human appearance. And it has nothing to do with religion or the sanctity of the body or anything like that, simply that because there are other life forms in the galaxy that are different from humanity and Earth-born ones it means that it is unique and that uniqueness has to be preserved. 

In the conversations you might notice that the genetic enhancements are called "routine". And in ME1 you can talk to a genetic engineering sales rep on Noveria. And medigel is a product of genetic engineering. Miranda is a product of genetic engineering and while she is said to be extensively modified she doesn't exactly keep it a secret, or even thinks its would be frowned upon by someone. So genetic engineering is quite widespread but just because it doesn't involve any really visible thing like a tail or something it seems toned down. Just because you can't see it does not mean its not there.

 

As for cybernetics, its true that a bit of a more widespread use would be more natural especially for the 22nd century but you are disregarding the whole biotic issue. Their bioamps are most definitely cybernetic in nature. Also in ME3 you can hear the doctor talking to a human patient, he was asking if his leg could be regenerated which mean replacement organs and limbs can be grown, and since damage is too extensive he is going to receive a cybernetic leg. That means cybernetics are used and are definitely developed quite well but when there is a choice between restoration of a natural limb and cybernetic replacement most people choose the first one if there is an option. 


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#9
Tonymac

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Honestly, I see it as a big part of our future.  If we could get rid of such things as cancer, poor eye sight, susceptability to disease and all of that most people would want it for their kids - if the risk was low enough.  Genetic enhancement makes sense and was a big part of the MEU.  Genetic enhancement could also have benefits like longer life spans, etc.

 

As for cybernetics, a lot of people in the MEU had biotic amps.  Pretty much all Asari have amps as I understand it.  I seem to recall going through the classes in ME2 and pretty much every class had some kind of amp of some sort or another.  Add in the fact that these amps and other cybernetic widgets could help us regrow limbs etc. could have huge benefits.

 

I say bring them to the next ME.


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#10
o Ventus

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Absolutely.



#11
Inprea

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The part you are missing it seems is that both of them exist, especially genetic engineering, but they are used sparingly, without cardinal changes to human appearance. And it has nothing to do with religion or the sanctity of the body or anything like that, simply that because there are other life forms in the galaxy that are different from humanity and Earth-born ones it means that it is unique and that uniqueness has to be preserved

In the conversations you might notice that the genetic enhancements are called "routine". And in ME1 you can talk to a genetic engineering sales rep on Noveria. And medigel is a product of genetic engineering. Miranda is a product of genetic engineering and while she is said to be extensively modified she doesn't exactly keep it a secret, or even thinks its would be frowned upon by someone. So genetic engineering is quite widespread but just because it doesn't involve any really visible thing like a tail or something it seems toned down. Just because you can't see it does not mean its not there.

 

As for cybernetics, its true that a bit of a more widespread use would be more natural especially for the 22nd century but you are disregarding the whole biotic issue. Their bioamps are most definitely cybernetic in nature. Also in ME3 you can hear the doctor talking to a human patient, he was asking if his leg could be regenerated which mean replacement organs and limbs can be grown, and since damage is too extensive he is going to receive a cybernetic leg. That means cybernetics are used and are definitely developed quite well but when there is a choice between restoration of a natural limb and cybernetic replacement most people choose the first one if there is an option. 

 

Why does something have to be preserved just because it's unique? Being unique alone doesn't mean something has any value. A rare birth defect could make someone very unique but we're probably still going to try to fix it if at all possible and avoid such things in the future. What makes unique so important that it would justify humanity handicapping itself over getting an advantage over aliens and potential threats?

 

I'm not really certain if Miranda is entirely legal either. Plus that type of genetic engineering is just bad. Her father wanted her based off him and who knows how many advantages that cost her. It'd make more sense to work from as wide of a gene selection as possible if you wanted to build a top shelf human. Then replace anything that's inferior to cybernetics with them. If there is anything.

 

It also mentions that technically medigel breaks several laws on genetic engineering but it's so useful it gets a special pass. There is also a shadow broker mission you can send some agents on to help in the development of a better medigel, it fails, but that it was killed by the legal system shows that genetic engineering is being repressed. After all, the improvements the Noveria sells rep mentions are all quite small and it wouldn't be surprising if the routine improvements are even smaller. To me it really seems like humanity in the ME universe has chosen to repress genetic engineering and cybernetics despite the advantages they could bring for social reasons that don't really hold water.



#12
Nitrocuban

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ME2 already did it to some extend, if ME4 goes further and more like Deus Ex I would not say no.


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#13
katamuro

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Why does something have to be preserved just because it's unique? Being unique alone doesn't mean something has any value. A rare birth defect could make someone very unique but we're probably still going to try to fix it if at all possible and avoid such things in the future. What makes unique so important that it would justify humanity handicapping itself over getting an advantage over aliens and potential threats?

 

I'm not really certain if Miranda is entirely legal either. Plus that type of genetic engineering is just bad. Her father wanted her based off him and who knows how many advantages that cost her. It'd make more sense to work from as wide of a gene selection as possible if you wanted to build a top shelf human. Then replace anything that's inferior to cybernetics with them. If there is anything.

 

It also mentions that technically medigel breaks several laws on genetic engineering but it's so useful it gets a special pass. There is also a shadow broker mission you can send some agents on to help in the development of a better medigel, it fails, but that it was killed by the legal system shows that genetic engineering is being repressed. After all, the improvements the Noveria sells rep mentions are all quite small and it wouldn't be surprising if the routine improvements are even smaller. To me it really seems like humanity in the ME universe has chosen to repress genetic engineering and cybernetics despite the advantages they could bring for social reasons that don't really hold water.

 

One of the reasons why not to do what you suggest is that everyone who would be born natural or not mixed to that kind of degree would be immediately a second class citizen. And the codex entry for Earth says that some places on Earth have barely advanced beyond the 20th century. And since the elites would have the ability to make their children and themselves into basically Ubermensch do you not see how that would quite quickly turn into one of the most repressive regimes? It would be discrimination on genetic terms, anyone who doesnt choose it or is unable due to personal situation would be quite literally forced into doing whatever the ones who can want them to do. That also opens up a can of worms called genetic slavery, when people would be designed as slaves, for sex or labour, they would be designed within certain parameters to fulfill the role and would probably have limited intelligence designed specifically so that they could not overthrow their masters.

And if you think that would not happen with unregulated genetic engineering then you are dangerously naive. Miranda is obviously presented as a top of the line human, peak condition for her sex, age and particular genetic makeup. That still leaves her human, quite human without going deep into the territory of Ubermensch.

Also if you actually did listen to the convo in ME1, the genetic therapy they were talking about is exactly the kind we need. Genetic engineering to patch up our genetic faults, cure diseases but without turning us into super-men. Also while "genetic engineering" sounds cool we have no idea how much we can tamper with our genetic code without damaging it in the long run. Our DNA is incredibly complex, possessing bits and pieces from all kinds of things, tolerances to diseases that might not exist anymore but could be similar to something in the future enough that we don't die in droves from it. And our reproduction is kinda hit and miss, and with a fully designed human we have no idea if a couple of generations down they wont be having far worse problems than if they simply reined in their own desire for modifications. 

And there are a myriad other social, moral and personal reasons why genetic engineering of humans should be a very careful, very controlled and quite minimal in the "stuff we don't have" area. 



#14
Inprea

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One of the reasons why not to do what you suggest is that everyone who would be born natural or not mixed to that kind of degree would be immediately a second class citizen. And the codex entry for Earth says that some places on Earth have barely advanced beyond the 20th century. And since the elites would have the ability to make their children and themselves into basically Ubermensch do you not see how that would quite quickly turn into one of the most repressive regimes? It would be discrimination on genetic terms, anyone who doesnt choose it or is unable due to personal situation would be quite literally forced into doing whatever the ones who can want them to do. That also opens up a can of worms called genetic slavery, when people would be designed as slaves, for sex or labour, they would be designed within certain parameters to fulfill the role and would probably have limited intelligence designed specifically so that they could not overthrow their masters.

And if you think that would not happen with unregulated genetic engineering then you are dangerously naive. Miranda is obviously presented as a top of the line human, peak condition for her sex, age and particular genetic makeup. That still leaves her human, quite human without going deep into the territory of Ubermensch.

Also if you actually did listen to the convo in ME1, the genetic therapy they were talking about is exactly the kind we need. Genetic engineering to patch up our genetic faults, cure diseases but without turning us into super-men. Also while "genetic engineering" sounds cool we have no idea how much we can tamper with our genetic code without damaging it in the long run. Our DNA is incredibly complex, possessing bits and pieces from all kinds of things, tolerances to diseases that might not exist anymore but could be similar to something in the future enough that we don't die in droves from it. And our reproduction is kinda hit and miss, and with a fully designed human we have no idea if a couple of generations down they wont be having far worse problems than if they simply reined in their own desire for modifications. 

And there are a myriad other social, moral and personal reasons why genetic engineering of humans should be a very careful, very controlled and quite minimal in the "stuff we don't have" area. 

 

I don't see where any of that has anything to do with the human body being unique or special. Now the notion that many regions of earth have not advanced beyond the 20th century does have some weight though I wonder what they're doing to delay advancement considering how many ships humans have and the size of them as well as the space colonies. If our planet is that lacking in development it seems we need to invest back at home more.

 

As for people being unable to afford the genetic augmentations. I don't agree with the mentality that just because some people can't afford something others shouldn't be able to make use of it. Should we all be restricted to four cylinder cars because some can't afford a nice heavy duty and they're better for the environment? I much prefer the free market approach and would like to see those that own large vehicles taxed on them for dumping more pollutants into the air. The same could be said for genetic engineering in ME spell special licenses to allow for certain levels of augmentation the extra money could then be used to bring more people up to speed.

 

The long term concerns I do agree are a valid concern. That is if the change can't be reversed.

 

Of course cybernetics have even less of these concerns. After all the benefits flat out can't be passed onto the children of the parent. As we're dealing with a setting with cloned organ systems  a person could even be restored to normal with some surgery. It'd probably be very expensive but doable.

 

Your fear of genetic engineering reminds me of when people set back medical science as studying corpses was taboo or illegal and people were uncomfortable with the idea of a heart transplant. Well and in more recent times the resistance to stem cell research.



#15
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ME2 already did it to some extend, if ME4 goes further and more like Deus Ex I would not say no.

 

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#16
Han Shot First

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Technically genetic engineering has always been part of the series. That ties in heavily with the lore on biotics, but also according to the lore most hereditary diseases have been eliminated or largely reduced due to genetic engineering. The side quest with the couple arguing about whether the female half's unborn child should get in utero gene therapy to eliminate the potential for a genetic heart defect delved into that as well.


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#17
Mcfly616

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I think the trilogy has already shown that there are those individuals/organizations/species whom embrace cybernetics and genetic engineering.



#18
katamuro

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I don't see where any of that has anything to do with the human body being unique or special. Now the notion that many regions of earth have not advanced beyond the 20th century does have some weight though I wonder what they're doing to delay advancement considering how many ships humans have and the size of them as well as the space colonies. If our planet is that lacking in development it seems we need to invest back at home more.

 

As for people being unable to afford the genetic augmentations. I don't agree with the mentality that just because some people can't afford something others shouldn't be able to make use of it. Should we all be restricted to four cylinder cars because some can't afford a nice heavy duty and they're better for the environment? I much prefer the free market approach and would like to see those that own large vehicles taxed on them for dumping more pollutants into the air. The same could be said for genetic engineering in ME spell special licenses to allow for certain levels of augmentation the extra money could then be used to bring more people up to speed.

 

The long term concerns I do agree are a valid concern. That is if the change can't be reversed.

 

Of course cybernetics have even less of these concerns. After all the benefits flat out can't be passed onto the children of the parent. As we're dealing with a setting with cloned organ systems  a person could even be restored to normal with some surgery. It'd probably be very expensive but doable.

 

Your fear of genetic engineering reminds me of when people set back medical science as studying corpses was taboo or illegal and people were uncomfortable with the idea of a heart transplant. Well and in more recent times the resistance to stem cell research.

 

Oh yeah like legislation ever worked. US continues to drive around with huge engines eating buckets of fuel and still not signed any of the environmental regulation like the Kyoto ones. Same goes for China, dumping millions of tons of CO2 and other **** into the air because they use huge quantities of coal. Or the various legislation about tax that rich people can easily evade because they have enough money to hide it somewhere. Or how about corporations that use much cheaper labour in countries where the legislation about worker rights or environment is simply not there. Yeah the so called "free market" and corporations which are basically rich enough to fund entire countries are certainly not doing anything illegal or morally questionable. As if the so called "free market" has done any favours to the people in the countries which are exploited by the richer and more powerful ones. Or have you forgot how when the banks, investment firms and the like were crashing and burning the people whose fault it was are not that affected by it. Here in UK while the bank that has nearly gone bankrupt was being bailed out by the government with the taxpayer money the people in charge of the bank who ran it into the ground were still getting their million pound bonuses. And that is still happening. 

 

So no, we cant rely on corporations or "free market" to steer us the right way or do anything as important as human genome modification. The whole world is still in economic trouble because the US style economy that was so popular only works up to the point which had been passed a long time ago. US style economy only works where there is enough people and markets to be exploited by it, otherwise it crashes like we have seen multiple times already in the past century. So giving them control over something like human genetic modification with the barest of boundaries would end up in eventual enslavement of everyone that was not rich enough to buy those mods. 

As for cybernetics, I am all for medical applications but cutting off your own bits and pieces to replace them with artificial ones? That is wrong. Imagine if 30 years from now your daughter decided that she didnt like her own legs, so she wanted to go down to the clinic, cut them off and get them replaced with artificial ones that would make her faster and be nearly unbreakable. Would you think its a good idea then? 

Or how about a sitation where a criminal has gone and replaced his arms and torso with high performance models, so now he is quite bulletproof, can rip a natural arm off easily and so goes on a crime spree until they manage to stop them. How many people would be killed and maimed in the process.

Look at the whole gun control issue, US has nearly as many guns as people in the country in private hands. Does that make anyone less likely to get shot? Look up murder rates by gun in US and UK, and UK has many more times the population density. 



#19
Iakus

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the big part of why both genetic engineering and cybernetics are downplayed is that with the alien species preserving the humanity in its more or less standard state is more important than getting a leg up on aliens with widespread cybernetics and genetic engineering. 

 

Even then in ME universe they use genetic engineering, in both ME1 and ME2 you meet a couple who argue about the genetic enhancements of the child. All alliance soldiers go through the genetic enhancement program.And cybernetics are also used but are downplayed to keep in line with human standard. 

 

kasumi's loyalty mission has to do with a certain cybernetic enhancement, that she also possesses. And probably plenty of people have cybernetics, but they are not flaunted, they are optimized to look as natural as possible.

All trained biotics, except perhaps some asari, also have cybernetic implants.


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#20
Guest_CrunchyisLife_*

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Yes. Very much so! I'd be the first to undergo any experimental surgery to replace my body parts as a means to test out cybernetic implants. I know some wounded vets who'd very much need them as well. Examples such as:

 

Edit: First and foremost the source of the material is from Chantal Sherif @ https://www.behance....63279/Ascension

 

acdf8b3c3a638da0da6e0520e67e598c.png

ed6b90cc390cba5d1cf1cc81ac9d4fec.png

cf0908e28c14fb571de93438288fcb7d.png  and more...


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#21
Han Shot First

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Those adds are pretty cool.

 

I'd like to see something like that in the next ME game. The adds aboard the Citadel in ME2 were also entertaining. 


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#22
RIPRemusTheTurian

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Well, I'd imagine that the everyday citizen (rightfully) fears genetic and cybernetic implants after the Reapers.

 

Although, I'd like to see some reference towards implant advancement. It would be interesting if our next human-grunt-soldier companion had obvious cybernetics, similar to XCOM's mecs or something. Synthesis and Kai Leng's robotics could've been relevant if there was more information about cybernetic-organic meshing.



#23
SwobyJ

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If my hypothetical daughter wants to replace body parts, in general, I say go for it, if she's an adult.

 

But I'll be sure to give her my opinion on what I like and don't like about it, and what she specifically replaces it with. 'Anything goes', but that isn't necessarily so when trying to operate within a society and certain greater frameworks.

 

Same as how I'd currently not be opposed to tattoos, but put a giant one covering your face and I'll give my objections and reasonings on why that won't be good for my hypothetical daughter if she ever plans on X, Y, or Z (job, romance, etc etc).


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#24
Vazgen

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I actually would not want to see it. I believe Mass Effect should stay away from augmentation, cybernetics route. Mostly, because Mass Effect features different alien races with their own unique physiologies and psychology, so something like Deus Ex would not really work IMO. Speaking of which, Deus Ex does a great job at addressing genetic engineering and/or cybernetics, better leave those issues to it.

I'd much prefer ME:Next being focused on exploration. And I don't mean "go to the cave, kill a monster, grab loot" type of exploration. Exploration of different cultures, societies, races, factions. Things that add a lot of detail to the world and make it feel alive.


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#25
SwobyJ

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I actually would not want to see it. I believe Mass Effect should stay away from augmentation, cybernetics route. Mostly, because Mass Effect features different alien races with their own unique physiologies and psychology, so something like Deus Ex would not really work IMO. Speaking of which, Deus Ex does a great job at addressing genetic engineering and/or cybernetics, better leave those issues to it.

I'd much prefer ME:Next being focused on exploration. And I don't mean "go to the cave, kill a monster, grab loot" type of exploration. Exploration of different cultures, societies, races, factions. Things that add a lot of detail to the world and make it feel alive.

 

Saren is a vision of the future.