21 réponses à ce sujet

[Jhelzei]

So I've recently started the game, and am enjoying the story, but combat is a mess. I'm playing on PC with KB+M, which I know is suboptimal, but I just can't get used to using a controller. So far I've been trying to control combat with the tactical camera, but have been having issues with it. For example, I'll tell all my ranged characters to attack a particular target, but as soon as I switch characters they'll choose a new, apparently random, target to start firing at. I also can't figure out how to cancel Shield Wall once I've triggered it. Despite my fumblings, I haven't lost any characters yet, but at this rate it's just a matter of time.

 

Do most of you playing with KB+M try to micromanage your entire party with the tactical camera, or just control the Herald? Are there any guides to effectively managing party AI? For that matter, where do I go in the menus to change party AI? Haven't found it yet...

[UnknownWhisp]

i use the herlad only so i can't exactly speak about micro, now the only true tip i can give you is not to bring any Dual wield rogues or knight enchanter cause they will reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally f**k up high 
now you want to set your mage with barrier as preferred also , it will keep using  it when it can and make sure you press Y at the start of a combat (target an enemy) so that your Tank can go in first , Imo herlad deals most of the damage in this game since a potato can be smarter than Ai in this game 
Also set your archer/mage  to follow themselves to prevent them from getting into melee range 
 

[DarkAmaranth1966]

The AI tactics is very limited, it's under the character record (where you apply ability points) Click on the Behaviors tab at the top. I only micro manage fro a few boss fights and, dragons. The rest of the time I control my Inquisitor mostly, unless I know one party member is going to be especially weak or lack any hope of damaging the enemy much, then I control tat one to keep them out of the way and using support and crowd control abilities instead of attacking uselessly.

[arkngt]

I'd recommend setting the followers target behavior to follow themselves. At default they are set to defend the inquisitor. Also, when I want to turn off Shield Wall for Cassandra, I simply choose something else in tactical view. She often keeps Shield Wall even the direction gets completely off - if so, I briefly switch to normal attack in order to have her face the right direction.

 

I micromanage my DW Rogue inquisitor a lot, but I tend to let followers manage themselves except for turning on Shield Wall for Cassandra, using Fade Step for Vivienne and having Sera use Leaping Shot in order to get away etc. I also turn off AI handling focus abilities, so I can choose exactly when Sera should use Thousand Cuts etc.

[Jhelzei]

Thanks for the tips. It looks like the AI is really limited. Damage doesn't seem to make much sense. Both the party and foes (even squishy archers and mages) seem to be able to take 20 sword thrusts to the face before perishing. That's good in that increases my party's survivability, but it seems to make fights last a really long time. Aside from that it seems like I might be better off having my Inquisitor mage use "Attack my target" a lot, and let the party take care of themselves. As far as Shield Wall is concerned, will a basic attack cancel it, or does it have to be a "special ability"? The obvious strategy would be to have a tank get aggro, throw up shield wall, then have ranged party members wail away. But my Inquisitor especially seems to get too much aggro. There's an ability in the Spirit tree that is supposed to decrease aggro; how well does it work? Is a spirit mage effective at high level? Mind blast does sound cool...

[PapaCharlie9]

What do you want to do? Do you want to micro the whole party, or just your character? Do you want to use mostly Tactical or only on an occasional basis? It will be easier to give specific advice once we know what you prefer.

 

I play PC KB+M too. I rarely use Tactical, mostly just to position characters for key boss fights, but I do use Pause a lot. I hadn't realized how much I pause until I watched a video I made of a boss fight. I think I spent at least 50% of elapsed time in pause mode, micromanaging every character.

 

The trick to targeting is to not click on a new target for yourself (Inquisitor) once you've set the party on other targets. There is a difference between the white crosshair and the gold crosshair. Clicking on a target sets it to gold. The gold crosshair defaults to "Attack my Target", if you have characters set to Follow Controlled Character. As long as you don't click on a new target and just fight what's in front of you, your party members will stay on your original command.

 

If you don't want to micro the rest of the party and they can take care of themselves, I prefer Defend (name of self) to Follow (name of self). You can use Tactical to give each party member a starting target or position, but after that, they will attack whoever attacks them. If you tend to die a lot (mage or rogue), set at least one other party member to Defend you.

 

I think KB+M gets a bad rap. True, it took some getting used to and having to keep one mouse button mashed down constantly for everything is a drag, but after rebinding E to Interact and a few other creature comforts, I don't even think about it anymore. Plus auto attack was added to Patch 5.

[PapaCharlie9]

Thanks for the tips. It looks like the AI is really limited. Damage doesn't seem to make much sense. Both the party and foes (even squishy archers and mages) seem to be able to take 20 sword thrusts to the face before perishing. That's good in that increases my party's survivability, but it seems to make fights last a really long time. Aside from that it seems like I might be better off having my Inquisitor mage use "Attack my target" a lot, and let the party take care of themselves. As far as Shield Wall is concerned, will a basic attack cancel it, or does it have to be a "special ability"? The obvious strategy would be to have a tank get aggro, throw up shield wall, then have ranged party members wail away. But my Inquisitor especially seems to get too much aggro. There's an ability in the Spirit tree that is supposed to decrease aggro; how well does it work? Is a spirit mage effective at high level? Mind blast does sound cool...

Are long fights a bad thing? One of the things I like about DAI is that up through about level 15, fights take time, particularly dragons.

 

I'm not 100% sure but I think Shield Wall is a toggle. Have you tried just clicking on it again to see if it turns off? If not, just use Shield Bash to deactivate it. You should be doing Shield Bash a lot anyway, particularly to trigger combos.

[Jhelzei]

Are long fights a bad thing? One of the things I like about DAI is that up through about level 15, fights take time, particularly dragons.

LOL, I like my fights short and brutal. More "realistic". I've never been a fan of bullet sponges. Now, dragon fights, I do expect those to take a long time. Are they better than Skyrim dragons?

[PapaCharlie9]

LOL, I like my fights short and brutal. More "realistic". I've never been a fan of bullet sponges. Now, dragon fights, I do expect those to take a long time. Are they better than Skyrim dragons?

Short answer: maybe. It depends on what you mean by "better". DAI battles are definitely longer, even accounting for great Skyrim mods like Deadly Dragons. Some of the DAI dragon battles are set pieces, with phases or waves. That never happens in Skyrim, AFAIK.

 

I take it you are avoiding Youtube, since DAI dragon battle videos are all over the place. If you do watch some videos, look out for the speedkill variety -- they are great videos, but kind of special purpose/brags.

 

Did you catch my other post above? I think I can solve your targetting problem.

[blaidfiste]

LOL, I like my fights short and brutal. More "realistic". I've never been a fan of bullet sponges. Now, dragon fights, I do expect those to take a long time. Are they better than Skyrim dragons?

The dragon fights are a lot better than in Skyrim.

[Jhelzei]

Short answer: maybe. It depends on what you mean by "better". DAI battles are definitely longer, even accounting for great Skyrim mods like Deadly Dragons. Some of the DAI dragon battles are set pieces, with phases or waves. That never happens in Skyrim, AFAIK.

 

I take it you are avoiding Youtube, since DAI dragon battle videos are all over the place. If you do watch some videos, look out for the speedkill variety -- they are great videos, but kind of special purpose/brags.

 

Did you catch my other post above? I think I can solve your targetting problem.

Yes, I'm trying to avoid spoilers. I have seen short clips in reviews, but haven't seen a dragon fight from start to end.

 

The whole pointer thing seems non-obvious. My best bet may be to set all companions to follow themselves, and select targets for them manually, or use the "Y" key when called for. Does that make sense?

[Jhelzei]

The dragon fights are a lot better than in Skyrim.

Try fighting a Skyrim dragon with an illusionist. You have to use your environment and companion(s). It can get interesting. Eventually I had to get a clue and learn destruction magic.

[PapaCharlie9]

Yes, I'm trying to avoid spoilers. I have seen short clips in reviews, but haven't seen a dragon fight from start to end.

 

The whole pointer thing seems non-obvious. My best bet may be to set all companions to follow themselves, and select targets for them manually, or use the "Y" key when called for. Does that make sense?

Like I said, I'd use Defend self rather than Follow self, but sure, you could go that way.

[Zeratulr]

Yes, I'm trying to avoid spoilers. I have seen short clips in reviews, but haven't seen a dragon fight from start to end.

 

The whole pointer thing seems non-obvious. My best bet may be to set all companions to follow themselves, and select targets for them manually, or use the "Y" key when called for. Does that make sense?

My advice for behaviour is to set all the ranged characters to defend themselves and melee characters to follow themselves. That way tanks and mellee damagers attack nearest enemies but wouldn't run after your controlled dagger rogue who's attacking enemy archers and mages. And your archer and mages stay in one place and shoot. But that's just the tip of the AI iceberg. What you actually need is to set your characters abilities right (abilities settings can be changed on second tab of the character screen). If you do that and your builds and gear are ok there will be no constant need to go to the tactical camera. The best way to understand how you should set up abilities is to take control of them for some time and see how their work then pinpoint a few most important abilities and set these abilities to preferred. For example for mages that should be barrier and a few offensive abilities. For tanks it's Warcry, Challenge and later for champions Walking Fortress.

 

The AI is unable to be as effective as a human player but at the same time it can be ok if you set it right. I was very angry with AI for first half of the game but then I learnt hot it works and now my tanks for example can survive a whole dragon fight without my intervention and I use the tactical camera only for the toughest situations.

[McPartyson]

Tank - follow self

Rest of the team - follow controlled character

 

mana reserve - 0%

 

set defensive skills and CC to prefered

[Tharkun]

LOL, I like my fights short and brutal. More "realistic". I've never been a fan of bullet sponges. Now, dragon fights, I do expect those to take a long time. Are they better than Skyrim dragons?

Dragon fights are better than Skyrim.  They are more engaging and the multiple hit boxes on Dragons make it more tactical.  

 

I tend to make the ranged companions defend each other and the melee companions defend each other.  No one is set to follow or defend the Inquisitor.  I do change preferred abilities.  My current playthrough is a DW rogue who is using mercy killing so my mages have Wall of Fire on preferred.  I leave mana reserve at 35% instead of 0%.  I make use of the Attack my Target button and tab target cycling.  If you are stealthed as a rogue you can easily control the flow of the fight with just those two commands and reserve controlled character interaction for the problems on the battlefield.

[Farangbaa]

Dragon fights are better than Skyrim.  They are more engaging and the multiple hit boxes on Dragons make it more tactical.  
 
I tend to make the ranged companions defend each other and the melee companions defend each other.  No one is set to follow or defend the Inquisitor.  I do change preferred abilities.  My current playthrough is a DW rogue who is using mercy killing so my mages have Wall of Fire on preferred.  I leave mana reserve at 35% instead of 0%.  I make use of the Attack my Target button and tab target cycling.  If you are stealthed as a rogue you can easily control the flow of the fight with just those two commands and reserve controlled character interaction for the problems on the battlefield.

35%? Unless I have a really bugged version of the game, that's not possible

And you guys and gals really make things work with setting anyone to follow self? I tried that a while back to awful results.

What I do is the following:

Tank - Follow PC, taunt skills set to preffered. This ensures that as soon as I attack (or rather, as soon as my attack hits, to be precise) the tank will taunt and draw aggro.
Ranged Rogue - Defend Tank. This ensures he/she will attack after the tank has been hit by an enemy, avoiding the rogue will draw any aggro.
Mage - Defend Tank. Barrier prefered, Dispel disabled, mana reserve 30%. Same reasoning as with the rogue, avoid any aggro.

I do not use dual wield companions.

Ofcourse, in larger battles with more enemies, it might not be possible (not for the AI nor for a human player) to draw all the aggro on the tank, but that's what barriers are for.

[Tharkun]

My desire is 35%, I set whatever is closest to it.  Sorry for the confusion.

[Farangbaa]

My desire is 35%, I set whatever is closest to it.  Sorry for the confusion.

Oh, I know how you feel I've desperatly tried to set it to 40%

[Anneqo]

Sorry for bringing back a topic but I have a question.

I have set everybody to following themselves and I usually start a fight like this:

send a tank to mobs, order rest of a team (all ranged) to stood in one place, but before tank get aggro (or is even near mobs) ranged characters start attacking. It's not a big problem but is it possible to change that they wait until tank attack? Should I set it to "defend tank"? But I like managing a fights a little and I order companions to kill archers/ranged mobs. If I set to "defend tank" will they be switching from my target (that I set to them) to tank's target? And I would like to ranged characters stay in place like I order. How should I set them?

[Tharkun]

In general if I want to team to wait on the tank I switch to tactical upon engaging.  Then I command the tank to do whatever and use various move-tos on everyone else.  Then I un-pause while still in tac mode and let the tank do her/his thing.  I think keep a close eye on everything with my finger over the pause key.  When it comes time, I issue the first attacks and switch out of tac mode. 

 

That is the only way I know of to have the team wait.

[PapaCharlie9]

I think defend tank will also work. I've certainly been puzzled by Sera not doing anything during a battle, only to remember that I had her set to Defend Solas, and Solas to Defend Sera, and I thought they were both set to follow me.