62 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

I remember Bioware stating that they'd never do another game like Baldur's Gate 2 again, not that it wasn't good, it was the perfect RPG, but with their games now being released to cater as big a crowd as possible, ("Skyrim sold 20 million "), and to a new generation that has no idea what a classic RPG is, well, suffice to say that Baldur's Gate 2 is far too complex for your average modern gamer

That's out of context. BG2 was a huge game they made in a very short period of time. The reference to never again was really a reference to a game of that scope in as narrow a timeline.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Also, BioWare didn't seem to realise at the time how big a game they were making with BG2.  A game quite that big might not have actually been the plan.

[Steelcan]

They still aren't exactly channeling the spirit of old school RPGs though

The quote may have been originally intended for the scope and development time, but its become true of gameplay and mechanics

[Darkly Tranquil]

I don't see how this changes difficulty. The combat system works both ways, doesn't it? If you can't miss the enemies, why can they miss you?

 

Well the way having a chance to miss creates that degree of uncertainty that makes combat unpredictable and thus more challenging. Think of it this way - you are low on health, out of potions and the boss has a bit of health left, and the next few hits will determine the outcome of the battle, if you have built your party right and optimised your hit chances, you will likely win, if you didn't, your attacks are more likely to miss and you may well lose. If everyone hit each other, your build matters less and there are fewer variables and the outcome is more predictable; you will hit, the boss will hit, and whoever can soak up the most damage before falling over will win.

 

In addition, everyone hitting also means that you can't create avoidance based defensive builds because you can't optimise for dodging and parrying enemy attacks as you could in older games like Origins, where dodge tanks were generally better than soak tanks.

[In Exile]

Well the way having a chance to miss creates that degree of uncertainty that makes combat unpredictable and thus more challenging. Think of it this way - you are low on health, out of potions and the boss has a bit of health left, and the next few hits will determine the outcome of the battle, if you have built your party right and optimised your hit chances, you will likely win, if you didn't, your attacks are more likely to miss and you may well lose. If everyone hit each other, your build matters less and there are fewer variables and the outcome is more predictable; you will hit, the boss will hit, and whoever can soak up the most damage before falling over will win.

 

In addition, everyone hitting also means that you can't create avoidance based defensive builds because you can't optimise for dodging and parrying enemy attacks as you could in older games like Origins, where dodge tanks were generally better than soak tanks.

 

Hit %s are nothing more than optimization problems. That's not to say that some people can't enjoy them, but it all amounts to playing around with ways to make a particular number as high (or low) as possible and then working around what type of number you want to optimize. 

 

This is how stat-based combat works, of course, but it becomes a problem when you have real-time control over movement. Since you're creating an interface that isn't meant to respond to an optimization problem (moving in real time, as with dodging in real time, is an issue of reflex) you've got a serious issue with how the entire control scheme is set up. 

 

You can't optimize movement really - because you do have proximity based hit-boxes - but you can't use reflexes either. And this just leads to inanity like kiting. 

[Chiramu]

Stats are basically redundant in DAI. 

 

I would like to increase my stats in DAI so that the game is not annoying to play on harder difficulties please. That is not "basically redundant" >.>.

[cJohnOne]

I just noticed that Dragon Age doesn't have an Intelligence attribute. How are going to build a Wizard that way.

[AlanC9]

I would like to increase my stats in DAI so that the game is not annoying to play on harder difficulties please. That is not "basically redundant" >.>.

Wait.. you mean you want the game to be easier? Then why are you playing on higher difficulty in the first place?

[AlanC9]

Well the way having a chance to miss creates that degree of uncertainty that makes combat unpredictable and thus more challenging. Think of it this way - you are low on health, out of potions and the boss has a bit of health left, and the next few hits will determine the outcome of the battle, if you have built your party right and optimised your hit chances, you will likely win, if you didn't, your attacks are more likely to miss and you may well lose. If everyone hit each other, your build matters less and there are fewer variables and the outcome is more predictable; you will hit, the boss will hit, and whoever can soak up the most damage before falling over will win.

As In Exile says, these are both optimization problems, just with different factors. As for builds mattering less without hit chance, that's true, but only because of the embedded assumption that the system with hit chances and the system without hit chances will be identical in all other respects. Sure, the one with a feature cut out will have less variability in builds, but that'd be true for any cut feature.

[FreeWitch]

I have to agree with a lot of what's being said here.  My husband and I both play games and we were just discussing this very thing the other day.  We can remember starting out in several games "missing" our attacks.  Morrowind anyone? LOL.  I LOVED it!  Because as my character grew and I stuck it out, she improved.  Finally the day came where she didn't miss so much anymore.  That arrow would fly true way more often than not now.  It gave a feeling of accomplishment.  How many times would low level mages get their behinds handed to them in several different games.  Get one shotted by a lowly kobold.  Then one day the mage grew up and now he/she was a force to be reckoned with.

 

 

I miss it.  I miss deciding what class I want to play.  I miss multi-classing.  I miss sitting there and thinking about how my stats should be used.  Planning out how my character should grow.  I wasn't always good at it.  Sometimes I could come out with a real good one, other times, not so much.  But I miss the ability to choose and to make the character my own good or bad.  I keep waiting for one of these games to suck me back in and it's just not happening. 

[Saphiron123]

It doesn't matter if always hitting takes the value out ability scores, they already took all the value out when they took away the ability to spend points and build your own character.

It's all auto now. I'm amazed they even let us pick skills or dialogue options.

[cJohnOne]

Well Pillars of Eternity is coming out March 26. There's a game called Sword Coast Legends which is D&D and Torment:Tides of Numenera is also coming out.

[cJohnOne]

Are we done talking about Attributes? Seems like there wasn't that much discussion on that particular aspect.


Thanks everyone for responding!