426 réponses à ce sujet

[Panda]

People did complain that Isabella was too sexy.  It wasn't men complaining, so let's not pretend that some of this wasn't because we women weren't raising the flag about bombshells.  I kept reading women saying that they want "realistic" women in gaming and I'm sure the women who, like myself, are endowed and have longer hair feel like we're real people.

 

I like Cassandra but I know men like more hair on women.  Do all men?  No, but most men if you take polls.  In fact, there is actual scientific research on the subject.  There is also research on why we like symmetrical appearances generally.  While it's not "all" people, when you appeal to "most" as a company you make more money.

 

The fact that this isn't solely a romance game is why they are able to get away with not having to give straight males the options they would prefer, but it doesn't mean that the game developers were all sitting around a table and going: You know what our straight gamers would like?  A female warrior who always wears a uniform buttoned all the way to the top with really short hair and facial scars!

 

Video game makers shouldn't have to make same characters all over again either, that kills artistry and is boring as heck (and seems to be hard to animate as well ) In Dragon Age there is balance. Morrigan has long hair and Leliana has bob. Isabela long and Merrill short with braids. Cassandra short pixie-cut and Josie long hair. Everyone's hairstyle is still different although some have long hair and some short. Cassandra having pixie cut is big deal for me, cause I have my hair cut to pixie cut most of time and I was amazed when I saw Cassandra.. even more with her armor, battle scars (like proper warrior) and strong personality.

 

Like those people complaining about Isabela, you are now complaining about Cassandra. Like she's not good the way she's designed and she should be replaced by someone with hourglass body and long hair, just because apparently that's sexy to men. But as much as Isabela is real woman, Cassandra is real woman as well. And Cassandra is important, because of it. Because people say she's mannish, non-sexy and ugly, just makes her involved in game that more important.

[phantomrachie]

People did complain that Isabella was too sexy.  It wasn't men complaining, so let's not pretend that some of this wasn't because we women weren't raising the flag about bombshells.  I kept reading women saying that they want "realistic" women in gaming and I'm sure the women who, like myself, are endowed and have longer hair feel like we're real people.

 

I like Cassandra but I know men like more hair on women.  Do all men?  No, but most men if you take polls.  In fact, there is actual scientific research on the subject.  There is also research on why we like symmetrical appearances generally.  While it's not "all" people, when you appeal to "most" as a company you make more money.

 

The fact that this isn't solely a romance game is why they are able to get away with not having to give straight males the options they would prefer, but it doesn't mean that the game developers were all sitting around a table and going: You know what our straight gamers would like?  A female warrior who always wears a uniform buttoned all the way to the top with really short hair and facial scars!

 

Most of the complaints I read about Isabela were around the fact that she wasn't wearing any trousers, not that she was too sexy.

 

Just like Cassandra, Isabela was designed first and then given a sexual orientation. No one sat around a table and said You know what our straight gamers would like?  A female warrior who always wears a uniform buttoned all the way to the top with really short hair and facial scars!

 

 

They created a character, Cassandra, then decided she was straight and then made her an LI.

 

She was designed as a character first. Cassandra would look like she does in DA:I regardless of her sexual orientation, which is a good thing. Characters shouldn't be designed with who might want to bang them in mind. 

[Panda]

In topic of romance options, I was just yesterday thinking how awesome it would have been if Gaspard was romance option, male LI's currently are quite nice, but not really my type unlike Gaspard. Maybe him, Celene and Briala as flings would been nice, one-night stand would have been enough for me and maybe some of these disapointed with Josie and Cass people would have been happy too, well there is hoping.

 

And before someone asks if I'm kidding.. I'm not

[Hanako Ikezawa]

In topic of romance options, I was just yesterday thinking how awesome it would have been if Gaspard was romance option, male LI's currently are quite nice, but not really my type unlike Gaspard. Maybe him, Celene and Briala as flings would been nice, one-night stand would have been enough for me and maybe some of these disapointed with Josie and Cass people would have been happy too, well there is hoping.

 

And before someone asks if I'm kidding.. I'm not

How would that work to help those who don't like Cassandra and Josephine since Celene and Briala are lesbians? 

[Zobert]

Video game makers shouldn't have to make same characters all over again either, that kills artistry and is boring as heck (and seems to be hard to animate as well ) In Dragon Age there is balance. Morrigan has long hair and Leliana has bob. Isabela long and Merrill short with braids. Cassandra short pixie-cut and Josie long hair. Everyone's hairstyle is still different although some have long hair and some short. Cassandra having pixie cut is big deal for me, cause I have my hair cut to pixie cut most of time and I was amazed when I saw Cassandra.. even more with her armor, battle scars (like proper warrior) and strong personality.

 

Like those people complaining about Isabela, you are now complaining about Cassandra. Like she's not good the way she's designed and she should be replaced by someone with hourglass body and long hair, just because apparently that's sexy to men. But as much as Isabela is real woman, Cassandra is real woman as well. And Cassandra is important, because of it. Because people say she's mannish, non-sexy and ugly, just makes her involved in game that more important.

 

 

Wellllll, if we all go to do our jobs the way we wanted instead of how the public demanded then the world would look very different.  They are welcome to not think about their customer base and that customer base is also entitled to say, "I'll go elsewhere".

 

Bioware for RPG gaming has Bethesda and Atari to compete with.  Open world was already "taken" by Betheda and done well so they needed to find a target audience and "work it".  It is fairly obvious from interviews, conventions and working groups that they attend, etc that they went with straight women, gay women, and others in the GLBT community. 

 

There's nothing wrong with that and quite frankly it was an untapped market and a wise business move considering the prevalence of the GLBT equality movement in movies, media, etc.

 

You give customers who have felt disenfranchised a product and communicate positive feelings towards them and you have loyal fans for life.

 

Straight guys are going to divide their time between other products and other companies so it doesn't pay out to give them what they want.  They need to accept this is just how the market works and either deal with it or move on.

[Panda]

How would that work to help those who don't like Cassandra and Josephine since Celene and Briala are lesbians? 

 

I don't think it's confirmed that they are both lesbians? I know that they are into women, but not if they are into women only.. I might have missed something though ^^;

[Panda]

Wellllll, if we all go to do our jobs the way we wanted instead of how the public demanded then the world would look very different.  They are welcome to not think about their customer base and that customer base is also entitled to say, "I'll go elsewhere".

 

Bioware for RPG gaming has Bethesda and Atari to compete with.  Open world was already "taken" by Betheda and done well so they needed to find a target audience and "work it".  It is fairly obvious from interviews, conventions and working groups that they attend, etc that they went with straight women, gay women, and others in the GLBT community. 

 

There's nothing wrong with that and quite frankly it was an untapped market and a wise business move considering the prevalence of the GLBT equality movement in movies, media, etc.

 

You give customers who have felt disenfranchised a product and communicate positive feelings towards them and you have loyal fans for life.

 

Straight guys are going to divide their time between other products and other companies so it doesn't pay out to give them what they want.  They need to accept this is just how the market works and either deal with it or move on.

 

I don't think it's like this so strongly, cause lot of straight male gamers who play DAI like Cassandra, quite many likes romancing Dorian or making female PC for Sera and lot of players don't even care about romances nor go as far in the game that they would even open romance content (large amount of players never finish game). So I think Bioware is quite cool with straight male gamers as well, though some whine over "manly" females.

[Zobert]

Most of the complaints I read about Isabela were around the fact that she wasn't wearing any trousers, not that she was too sexy.

 

Just like Cassandra, Isabela was designed first and then given a sexual orientation. No one sat around a table and said You know what our straight gamers would like?  A female warrior who always wears a uniform buttoned all the way to the top with really short hair and facial scars!

 

 

They created a character, Cassandra, then decided she was straight and then made her an LI.

 

She was designed as a character first. Cassandra would look like she does in DA:I regardless of her sexual orientation, which is a good thing. Characters shouldn't be designed with who might want to bang them in mind. 

 

Of course they didn't, I'm not sure Bioware cares what straight gamers would like.  I'm pointing out the other women whose comment's I've read which were pretty much that she's a T&A fantasy maven and not realistic.  I didn't read the pants part, but I believe you that they complained about that, too.

[Zobert]

I don't think it's like this so strongly, cause lot of straight male gamers who play DAI like Cassandra, quite many likes romancing Dorian or making female PC for Sera and lot of players don't even care about romances nor go as far in the game that they would even open romance content (large amount of players never finish game). So I think Bioware is quite cool with straight male gamers as well, though some whine over "manly" females.

 

There are some, but "a lot" seems hard to swallow given the complaints. 

 

I didn't say Bioware was adversarial about straight males, just that they're not the target audience.  Straight male allies are certainly welcomed by the Bioware community, but I doubt many would say that they think Cassandra needs more hair online.  They'd think it though.

 

I'm more trusting of blind scientific studies than what people will say in a collective arena.  Most men like long hair on women.  I'm not saying that's a good thing, because I'd like to cut my hair off and find it a total bummer that my BF is all about hair.

[ThreeF]

Straight guys are going to divide their time between other products and other companies so it doesn't pay out to give them what they want.  They need to accept this is just how the market works and either deal with it or move on.

I'm not all that convinced that straight guys will stop playing BW games because of Cassandra.

[o Ventus]

I'm not all convinced that straight guys will stop playing BW games because of Cassandra.

Well, I'm still here, and Cassandra is probably my favorite character in Inquisition, if not the series.

[Zobert]

I'm not all that convinced that straight guys will stop playing BW games because of Cassandra.

 

I don't think I said that they would.  I think I said that they have the option.  I implied that some straight guys will or have moved on, but that it won't matter in the long run because they have sewn up the women and GLBT community for gaming pretty tight.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't think it's confirmed that they are both lesbians? I know that they are into women, but not if they are into women only.. I might have missed something though ^^;

Celene was confirmed as a lesbian for sure and I believe Briala was also confirmed as a lesbian. 

[Panda]

Celene was confirmed as a lesbian for sure and I believe Briala was also confirmed as a lesbian. 

 

I haven't seen these confirmations.. probaply tweets by Weekes?

[nightscrawl]

Celene was confirmed as a lesbian for sure and I believe Briala was also confirmed as a lesbian.

 
I get that you're trying to be helpful, but saying that anything is "confirmed" without providing a source is meaningless.
 
I can do it too: I believe that Varric was confirmed as a romance option for DLC.

[ThreeF]

Well, I'm still here, and Cassandra is probably my favorite character in Inquisition, if not the series.

Weirdo!

 

But seriously, these kind of conversations make it look as if men have some sort of hivemind that needs to be catered to. It seems more of a case where some people are just more vocal than others.

 

 

I don't think I said that they would.  I think I said that they have the option.  I implied that some straight guys will or have moved on, but that it won't matter in the long run because they have sewn up the women and GLBT community for gaming pretty tight.

 

Not only women and GLBT community, I know many men who are just tired of playing the same tropes over and over again and I actually know couple gay guys who never romanced any of gay options in DAI (one constantly plays as an elf female mage because "pretty to look at") and generally don't care much about romance and representations, they like killing stuff. I also don't play the game for romances, but I do appreciate that I'm able to create my own character and the type of characters DA games provide.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I haven't seen these confirmations.. probaply tweets by Weekes?

Yep. 

 

 

 
I get that you're trying to be helpful, but saying that anything is "confirmed" without providing a source is meaningless.
 
I can do it too: I believe that Varric was confirmed as a romance option for DLC.

Here's Celene's:

https://twitter.com/...682179360837632

[o Ventus]

 

Not only women and GLBT community, I know many men who are just tired playing the same tropes over and over again and I actually know couple gay guys who never romanced any of gay options in DAI (one constantly play as an elf mage because "pretty to look at") and generally don't care much about romance and representations, they like killing stuff. I also don't play the game for romances, but I do appreciate that I'm able to create my own character and the type of characters DA games provides.

Probably because, and I know this is a bit of a volatile thing to say, but gay people aren't any different than anyone else aside from their sexual preferences. Gay people aren't the overly sassy, flamboyant, and feminine guys who wear scarves and speak with a lisp like they do in TV or in movies. They play for all the same reasons any straight person would. A gay person can play Gears of War because it's fun to gib people with chainsaws and shotguns just as I do.

[ThreeF]

Probably because, and I know this is a bit of a volatile thing to say, but gay people aren't any different than anyone else aside from their sexual preferences. Gay people aren't the overly sassy, flamboyant, and feminine guys who wear scarves and speak with a lisp like they do in TV or in movies. They play for all the same reasons any straight person would. A gay person can play Gears of War because it's fun to gib people with chainsaws and shotguns just as I do.

Volatile? Not at all. More of a case of "pointing the obvious".

[o Ventus]

Volatile? Not at all. More of a case of "pointing the obvious".

That was the joke.

[Zobert]

Weirdo!

 

But seriously, these kind of conversations make it look as if men have some sort of hivemind that needs to be catered to. It seems more of a case where some people are just more vocal than others.

 

 

 

Not only women and GLBT community, I know many men who are just tired of playing the same tropes over and over again and I actually know couple gay guys who never romanced any of gay options in DAI (one constantly plays as an elf female mage because "pretty to look at") and generally don't care much about romance and representations, they like killing stuff. I also don't play the game for romances, but I do appreciate that I'm able to create my own character and the type of characters DA games provide.

 

I tend to avoid generalizations, which is why I don't say "all" men because nothing is every true of all people.  However, trends exist, biological urges exist and can be scientifically evidenced through statistical data.

 

If this were not true marketing firms wouldn't spend so much money on research.

 

Regarding the latter half of what you said, appearances aren't "tropes".  Someone's appearance is a superficial quality that correlates to attraction in a physical sense.  Character and writing is targeted to appeal to an intellectual attraction which is where a trope would come in.

 

IF straight men in general disliked slim to curvy women with long hair the Sports Illustrated edition, not to mention, Playboy, and various Hollywood film roles would have women in them that look just like Cassandra.

 

I'm not personally understating her attractiveness.  I find she and Vivienne to be quite handsome and attractive to me, but I am not male.

 

There are many women who find Cumberpatch hot for his odd looks, so despite trends there are still people who generate a certain "something" that makes them appealing.

[phantomrachie]

Of course they didn't, I'm not sure Bioware cares what straight gamers would like.  I'm pointing out the other women whose comment's I've read which were pretty much that she's a T&A fantasy maven and not realistic.  I didn't read the pants part, but I believe you that they complained about that, too.

 

Wait so you agree that they didn't sit around and design a character to specifically be an LI? Then what is your issue?

 

They didn't do that with any character. I don't think they care what any gamer of any orientation specifically finds attractive.  

 

Some gay women don't like Sera, some gay men don't like Dorian.

[TaHol]

Someone commented that "BioWare does not sit around the table and think if the character would be appealing to player" or something like that. Actually they do, at least they did with Thane. When choosing his looks (there were several choices) they showed the sketches to female employees who in turn chose the Thane we got (as a female I can say "well done").

[Panda]

I tend to avoid generalizations, which is why I don't say "all" men because nothing is every true of all people.  However, trends exist, biological urges exist and can be scientifically evidenced through statistical data.

 

If this were not true marketing firms wouldn't spend so much money on research.

 

Regarding the latter half of what you said, appearances aren't "tropes".  Someone's appearance is a superficial quality that correlates to attraction in a physical sense.  Character and writing is targeted to appeal to an intellectual attraction which is where a trope would come in.

 

IF straight men in general disliked slim to curvy women with long hair the Sports Illustrated edition, not to mention, Playboy, and various Hollywood film roles would have women in them that look just like Cassandra.

 

I'm not personally understating her attractiveness.  I find she and Vivienne to be quite handsome and attractive to me, but I am not male.

 

There are many women who find Cumberpatch hot for his odd looks, so despite trends there are still people who generate a certain "something" that makes them appealing.

 

Hollywood is full of people like Cassandra.. I have no idea about other two and I'm not too intrested to find out either.

 

Those magazines and Hollywood movies (though that's quite big genre with different things in it) aren't necessarily what general gamer boy likes on his woman, the media is so different that I don't know if they can be compared much.

 

I have yet seen any good study about what gamers want and the numbers how many gamers there is, so I wouldn't say companies have good information on that.

[Panda]

Someone commented that "BioWare does not sit around the table and think if the character would be appealing to player" or something like that. Actually they do, at least they did with Thane. When choosing his looks (there were several choices) they showed the sketches to female employees who in turn chose the Thane we got (as a female I can say "well done").

 

I was thinking of Thane as well, his whole alien race was created for that purpose.. but I think he's exception in this. Like in DAI both Cullen's and Solas' romances was added late so they weren't designed to be LI's.. and they ended up as most popular LI's for straight female PC.