426 réponses à ce sujet

[phantomrachie]

I'm actually disappointed in the romances in general

 

probably because it doesn't feel like a a real romance too one sided

the inquisitor ALWAYS has to make the move and flirt with the LI for a long time 

then suddenly there is a decision and the LI suddenly loves the Inquisitor? there was no attraction at all

 

Also they feel cliche (Cassandra's poem stuff, Josephine's "duel") and not natural at all

I remember reading something like "the romances will be more mature this time" 

if this is mature...then lol

 

The last time BioWare tried a romance were the LI approached the protagonists, they were accused of Ninja romances.

 

I thought Joesphine's duel was great, it might be cliched for you, but playing as a female Inquisitor the duel was something I never experienced before.

 

As for Cassandra, I haven't romanced her yet because I've yet to play a male Inquisitor but she is the first character I've come across who let my Inquisitor down gently.

 

If you flit with her as a women and don't start another romance too soon, you can experience a cut scene were she says she is faltered, but not interested so lets just stay friends.

 

Normally in games you just have no option to flit with an LI that is not interested or they just ignore your flirts like Aveline but Cass' response was great. 

[ThreeF]

the inquisitor ALWAYS has to make the move and flirt with the LI for a long time 

This is "the Anders effect" I think

[eyezonlyii]

Personally, I would advocate for the removal of the heart icon for "flirts" and let your responses dictate how characters react to you. The caveat to this would be to not be punished for letting a character know you were not interested in them, or at least have it be a temporary or superficial "anger".

[phantomrachie]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they have to, if nothing else those who send them spying would want them to be the most loyal, so I imagine that if a Ben Hassrath strays too much and outside of spying needs, they get "reprogrammed".

 

but they have to act on their own - they could spend years without contact from others of the Qun or even need to marry for their role.

 

It seems to me like that Ben Hassrath are given a huge amount of leniency to do their job, so the Qun may not care too much how it gets done, just that it gets done.

 

If they needed to go home at any stage then I'm sure they'd be reeducated.

[Inalt]

As a human male, there isnt anyone I really want my character to pursue. The appeal in DAO and DA2 just ain't there. I mean, Josephine seems quite nice, but let's face it, she's no Morrigan...




Anyone else agree?

Yep. Besides the female companions are ugly as hell.

[Seraphael]

It's not so much that the topic is a bit repetitive, though we have seen plenty of posts on the subject. It's more that the anti-Cassie and-Josie position has been so thoroughly discredited by posters who came before you, mostly through preposterously entitled rants about how the game discriminates against straight males.

 

Not that I've been paying much attention, but it seems to me the vast majority of ranting comes from people on a social justice crusade attacking any straight male with the audacity to raise the subject. Let's leave all the BS behind and look at the facts shall we?

 

Love interests for females: 6 (total)

Love interests for males: 4 (total)

Love interests for gay females: 2 (1 exclusive)

Love interests for gay males: 2 (1 exclusive)

Love interest straight females: 4 (3 exclusive)

Love interest straight males: 2 (1 exclusive)

 

Simple math tells us straight men are indeed "discriminated against" in absolute terms. In relative terms, if we go by Bioware's own statistics telling us 68% of the inquisitors created are men (assuming that number is representative for the gender balance), the under-representation gets worse. Female gamers get twice as many LIs as their numbers entitle them to, assuming an "equal playing field" is a goal. If we compare to the probable number of gay players, the relative under-representation of straight male LIs is much, much worse. To compound matters, the two LIs for straight males are seen as either masculine (Cassandra) or not especially physically attractive (both). And only one LI is a companion.

 

That said, I realize straight males are likely to be less interested in that aspect of the game than any other gender/sexual orientation. But the simple fact that these threads keep popping up, means that it is a commonly held perception than straight men gets shafted. Excuse the pun. As shown above, that sentiment clearly is warranted and the militant parts of this community should try to respect that fact.

[phantomrachie]

Yep. Besides the female companions are ugly as hell.

 

wow - can't believe we manged to get to 5 pages before someone said that.

[phantomrachie]

That said, I realize straight male are likely to be less interested in that aspect of the game than any other gender/sexual orientation. But the simple fact that these threads keep popping up, means that it is a commonly held perception than straight men gets shafted. Excuse the pun. ^^

 

 

I think it is more that a certain type of gamer is used to having more LI choices in games & now they have pretty much the same amount of choices as everyone else (with the exception of Female Elvish & Human Inquisitors) they feel they had a choice taken from them, when that is simply not the case.

[eyezonlyii]

Not that I've been paying much attention, but it seems to me the vast majority of ranting comes from people on a social justice crusade attacking any straight male with the audacity to raise or speak up on this topic. Let's leave all the BS behind and look at the facts shall we?

 

Love interests for females: 6 (total)

Love interests for males: 4 (total)

Love interests for gay females: 2 (1 exclusive)

Love interests for gay males: 2 (1 exclusive)

Love interest straight females: 4 (3 exclusive)

Love interest straight males: 2 (1 exclusive)

 

Simple math tells us straight men are indeed "discriminated against" in absolute terms. In relative terms, if we go by Bioware's own statistics telling us 68% of the inquisitors created are men (assuming that number is representative for the gender balance), the under-representation gets worse. Female gamers get twice as many LIs as their numbers entitle them to, assuming an "equal playing field" is a goal. If we compare to the probable number of gay players, the relative under-representation is much, much worse. To compound matters, the two LIs for straight males are seen as either masculine (Cassandra) or not especially physically attractive (both). And only one LI is a companion.

 

That said, I realize straight male are likely to be less interested in that aspect of the game than any other gender/sexual orientation. But the simple fact that these threads keep popping up, means that it is a commonly held perception than straight men gets shafted. Excuse the pun. ^^

Well, not exactly inspiring a lot of sympathy, but I'll say this: It's been one game. In how many thousands of other games have straight males had the romantic/sexual connection with a secondary character? Even in just the ME and DA series, the deck has been stacked against straight males for ONE game. The attacks come from groups of people who have had to endure this kind of "romantic representation" for many games and then to hear the complaints about how unfair everything is, makes one feel quite exasperated. 

[Zobert]

That may be true but this game isn't an open source game, we still all pay for the product so people are allowed to complain that they don't get what they want out of it.  I think it should be playersexual so that everyone who plunks down money gets the same LI and then be done with this.

 

It doesn't reduce the spirit of the game.  I didn't even think about it in DA2. 

 

But I know that what people want is not the romance, but for themselves to be represented within the game as if that is remotely possible (though Bioware tries).

 

Bioware is trying to be all things to all people and it's just not a realistic goal.  You will make people unhappy and considering the price of games, it shouldn't be an "Oh well, they're just unhappy--suck it up", be that person straight or gay.  We work to pay for this game.  Some people have to work 6 hours to pay for this game, others less so (usually the ones more blase).

[Darkly Tranquil]

The last time BioWare tried a romance were the LI approached the protagonists, they were accused of Ninja romances.

 

I wonder if the fact that it was Anders (a very polarising character) that was the one doing the approaching that bugged people. No-one really seemed to object to Zevran's constant flirting, so I tend to think its a little more complex than just a matter of players not liking romance options who initiate. I think the problem with Anders was that he comes off as a bit intense and creepy(??) and that was what weirded people out more than anything else.

[Zobert]

Well, not exactly inspiring a lot of sympathy, but I'll say this: It's been one game. In how many thousands of other games have straight males had the romantic/sexual connection with a secondary character? Even in just the ME and DA series, the deck has been stacked against straight males for ONE game. The attacks come from groups of people who have had to endure this kind of "romantic representation" for many games and then to hear the complaints about how unfair everything is, makes one feel quite exasperated. 

 

Countless and it was the same with female gamers for year and years.  There were very few female heroines at all.  Romances in games is also relatively new outside of iconic ones.

 

That still doesn't mean that people who pay for a product can't complain.  I'm not a straight male, but straight male gamers didn't write the code that kept me playing male characters for years.  They just played the games like me.  This shouldn't be, IMO, a situation where "we" women get what we want and men don't or that straight people don't deserve to have the same gaming experience as gays and women now because they had it good for years.

 

Why can't everyone have a good experience? 

[phantomrachie]

I wonder if the fact that it was Anders (a very polarising character) that was the one doing the approaching that bugged people. No-one really seemed to object to Zevran's constant flirting, so I tend to think its a little more complex than just a matter of players not liking romance options who initiate. I think the problem with Anders was that he comes off as a bit intense and creepy(??) and that was what weirded people out more than anything else.

 

Perhaps. I didn't think Anders came off as intense or creepy, but then it could be because as a women I'm more used to random people hitting on me and perhaps some male players wouldn't be as used it it,

[ThreeF]

but they have to act on their own - they could spend years without contact from others of the Qun or even need to marry for their role.

there is a difference though  between "need" and "want"

 

 

It seems to me like that Ben Hassrath are given a huge amount of leniency to do their job, so the Qun may not care too much how it gets done, just that it gets done.

 

If they needed to go home at any stage then I'm sure they'd be reeducated.

I think they are kept in check, Qun wouldn't want for them to run too free to the point where they might just turn their backs to the Qun and betray them or worse start playing double agents, it's not just about returning home and contaminating the pool so to speak. I mean if nothing else they did send an assassin after Bull, even if it  was a half-assed attempt the fact that the practice exists tells a lot.

 

 

I remember Leliana and in general the DA:O LI's also flirting with the Warden?

 

Anders kinda took it up a notch.  You more or less couldn't wriggle out of it without him blowing up in your face.

 

Speaking of taking lead, I more or less feel that while PC is the one who initiate romance in DAI once it is locked PC takes the passive role.
 

[AWTEW]

Yep. Besides the female companions are ugly as hell.

They are better looking than miranda tbh.

[Seraphael]

I think it is more that a certain type of gamer is used to having more LI choices in games & now they have pretty much the same amount of choices as everyone else (with the exception of Female Elvish & Human Inquisitors) they feel they had a choice taken from them, when that is simply not the case.

 

They don't have pretty much the same amount of choices. They have less choices and much less choices than their numbers warrants. And they are completely out of luck if they want someone with significant physical appeal. 

 

I get that you feel straight males have been entitled. They have been for the simple reason, the vast majority of gamers have traditionally been straight males. Even now with the number of female gamers on a sharp rise to levels nearly rivalling male gamers, games with female leads still sell significantly worse. However, the situation in DAI is more than a reversal of fortunes, the majority now gets less than the minority.

 

 

Well, not exactly inspiring a lot of sympathy, but I'll say this: It's been one game. In how many thousands of other games have straight males had the romantic/sexual connection with a secondary character? Even in just the ME and DA series, the deck has been stacked against straight males for ONE game. The attacks come from groups of people who have had to endure this kind of "romantic representation" for many games and then to hear the complaints about how unfair everything is, makes one feel quite exasperated. 

 

See my answer above. Two wrongs doesn't make a right. It should be food to thought that you appear to have felt oppressed, yet have little reservation starring the role of the oppressor. I'm not playing a victim though, far from it. I'm not really even complaining (but then again, I really like Cassandra for her fierce appearance contrasted with romantic notions), but I see that the ones who do so - have a point that are being shouted down in a rather ungracious manner.

[phantomrachie]

 

I think they are kept in check, Qun wouldn't want for them to run too free to the point where they might just turn their backs to the Qun and betray them or worse start playing double agents, it's not just about returning home and contaminating the pool so to speak. I mean if nothing else they did send an assassin after Bull, even if it  was a half-assed attempt the fact that the practice exists tells a lot.

 

 

From the two examples we have, they don't seem to be kept that much in check.

 

Now Iron Bull & Tallis could be total outliers and not typical or they could be very typical.

 

Without more examples we don't really know.

[Monster20862]

Female elf has the most choices at six. Luckily I love my female elves.

[Inalt]

They are better looking than miranda tbh.

Seriously?

Well, it's your opinion, I have another.

[phantomrachie]

They don't have pretty much the same amount of choices. They have less choices and much less choices than their numbers warrants. And they are completely out of luck if they want someone with significant physical appeal. 

 

I get that you feel straight males have been entitled. They have been for the simple reason, the vast majority of gamers have traditionally been straight males. Even now with the number of female gamers on a sharp rise to levels nearly rivalling male gamers, games with female leads still sell significantly worse. However, the situation in DAI is more than a reversal of fortunes, the majority now gets less than the minority.

 

 

 

They have the same amount of choices as gay gamers, they have the same amount of choices as they did in both previous games. Explain how this is less? What does significant physical appeal mean?

 

DA:I is not the reversal of fortunes, even if it were, it is one game. One game among all the 100s of games out there that cater to straight male gamers. I mean most games with plot relevant LIs, have a white man with brown hair protagonist and a brunette or blonde woman.

 

Do you think that really represents the majority of gamers?

 

What about asian gamers, black gamers, gay gamers, gamers with red hair, etc 

 

Games with female leads sell worse because they get 1/2 the marketing budget (if they are lucky). Games like Tomb Raider where they get a proper marketing budget sell extremely well.

[eyezonlyii]

That may be true but this game isn't an open source game, we still all pay for the product so people are allowed to complain that they don't get what they want out of it.  I think it should be playersexual so that everyone who plunks down money gets the same LI and then be done with this.

 

It doesn't reduce the spirit of the game.  I didn't even think about it in DA2. 

 

But I know that what people want is not the romance, but for themselves to be represented within the game as if that is remotely possible (though Bioware tries).

 

Bioware is trying to be all things to all people and it's just not a realistic goal.  You will make people unhappy and considering the price of games, it shouldn't be an "Oh well, they're just unhappy--suck it up", be that person straight or gay.  We work to pay for this game.  Some people have to work 6 hours to pay for this game, others less so (usually the ones more blase).

 

 

Countless and it was the same with female gamers for year and years.  There were very few female heroines at all.  Romances in games is also relatively new outside of iconic ones.

 

That still doesn't mean that people who pay for a product can't complain.  I'm not a straight male, but straight male gamers didn't write the code that kept me playing male characters for years.  They just played the games like me.  This shouldn't be, IMO, a situation where "we" women get what we want and men don't or that straight people don't deserve to have the same gaming experience as gays and women now because they had it good for years.

 

Why can't everyone have a good experience? 

I'm not saying straight guys don't have the right to complain, merely that they should look at this game in the context of all other games produced when they do so. The weight of the gaming balance leans heavily in their direction, so I don't have any sympathy if for one game they have to deal with the uncomfortable reality of not having the content specifically cater to them. Does it suck? Yeah, but it's been sucking for many people for a lot longer. 

 

@Seraphael

I'm not saying that straight male gamers should be confined to gaming purgatory or whatever and have to experience a thousand years of darkness, nor am I saying that for now and forever, all love interests written for them must look like the ugly stepsisters from Cinderella. All I am saying is that for this 1 product, the score has been evened out in most cases and unbalanced to a very specific subset of race/class combinations. As far as looks go, they are completely subjective but, I find the fact that Cassandra and Josephine aren't "conventionally attractive" a positive thing. Again, not because I want to punish straight male gamers for being straight males, but because people come in different looks and shapes and tones and whatever else. Cassandra is about 40 years old (or more) so I wouldn't expect her to look like a fresh faced ingenue like she did in the anime. Josie is just different. Sorry she doesn't fit your tastes, better luck next time. It's the same thing I felt with Zevran, Anders and Fenris. And now I have both Bull and Dorian. In Mass Effect I had to wait three games to even have a chance to romance someone of my tastes (male), while BroShep could have a harem in the second game. So yes, I understand what it's like to not have a character you want to relate to in the game, but no, no sympathy for the "whoa is me" mentality 

[ThreeF]

See my answer above. Two wrongs doesn't make a right. It should be food to thought that you appear to have felt oppressed, yet have little reservation starring the role of the oppressor. I'm not playing a victim though, far from it. I'm not really even complaining (but then again, I really like Cassandra for her fierce appearance contrasted with romantic notions), but I see that the ones who do so - have a point that are being shouted down in a rather ungracious manner.

You know I don't see it as a matter of "oppression" I see it as matter of plot coming before the romance. Josephine and Cassandra were not created just so they would be romance-able. A character is created and fleshed out to fulfill a role then it is decided whenever he or she will have a romance subplot, not the other way around.

[phantomrachie]

You know I don't see it as a matter or "oppression" I see it as matter of plot coming before the romance. Josephine and Cassandra were not created just so they would be romance-able. A character is created and fleshed out to fulfill a role then it is decided whenever he or she will have a romance subplot, not the other way around.

 

Thank you - I wish I could give you more than one like 

[eyezonlyii]

You know I don't see it as a matter or "oppression" I see it as matter of plot coming before the romance. Josephine and Cassandra were not created just so they would be romance-able. A character is created and fleshed out to fulfill a role then it is decided whenever he or she will have a romance subplot, not the other way around.

This relates to another issue. To many of the guys who are complaining, it's a numbers game: there's more of us, so we should have more options. But how many is fair? 2 more? 4 more? 10x more (because you know, only 10% of the population is gay). And how would all those characters interact with the story in a meaningful way? Even now, with the way companions are written to be as optional as possible, many don't have any real impact on the story: Vivienne, Blackwall, Sera, The Iron Bull. They're really just kinda there. There is a way to do it, have a missing companion, and still keep the game going, and Bioware did it pretty well in DA2. For the first few times I played, I missed Isabella. I knew she was in the game, but could never find her and the story didn't suffer from it. But then when I did finder her, all of a sudden the second act had a much stronger punch and sense of urgency behind it.