71 réponses à ce sujet

[SardaukarElite]

I think it is fair to say that Dragon Age (all of them) has a very modern take on its Medieval fantasy, but there it is still very much a society were the powerful get to  be big jerks and do so at pretty much every given opportunity. Halamshiral has a near nonsensical amount of killing off servants because they're in the wrong place.

 

I would blame the (comparative)  lack of darkness in Inquisition mostly on the main plot, which fails to create urgency or tension, and doesn't present any kind of serious threat. Likewise it doesn't provide many occasions where the problems of the world are easily explored, compared to them being them being constant plot fuel for each of the main arcs in the previous games. There is some horrible stuff still going on in the world but it is tucked away while chasing the light hearted parody of Jafar around Thedas takes centre stage.

 

 

but reality is boring

 

Only for the ignorant.

[Mushashi7]

My thoughts?

I think Dragon Age Inquisition is a very good example of how you place modern people in mediewall sorroundings.

It's Hollywood soap opera. Very simple. The majority loves it.

And it's ok. If you want more realism and darker roleplay there are other games.

[Korva]

Many people are too quick to use "mature"/"realistic" or "immature/"unrealistic" as synonyms for "what I like" and "what I don't like".

[In Exile]

... Why is it always the 30s?

The 60s,70s,1830s not good enough for you?

For the benefit of a non-American poster (like me). We didn't have the same periods of racism in our history or focused on the same reasons. European discrimination for example was in racialised language but relates to group membership Americans wouldn't think is related to race (e.g. "slav" as a race or "moor" as a race) depending in the historical period.

[ZJR12911]

I think people really overstate this kind of prejudice. Not that medieval mentalities were like our own. But people want 1930s style racism in the 1200s, and the hatreds and conflicts in that period of time were not at all like our own. 

So you believe equality was better in the 1200s?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

I think not, but admit it: I feel that the first game was more cruel, more... medieval.

 

I, too, feel like the rest of the series has not been able to replicate the unique, interesting atmosphere of its first game.

[ZJR12911]

Personally I just feel that when you place real world issues in a game you should make them realistic by giving the player the chance to decide the morality they want for their world. Mass Effect was good at that, if you chose to abandon the council, the galactic opinion of humans shifted.  In this game there is no moral choice that affects all of Thedas, it is just choose mages or templars.  Shouldn't you as the inquisitor be able to make actions with consequences beyond just saving the world? I've played a lot of save the world type games. Very few though have given me the chance to change the world.  And btw to the people saying "sounds like you want what you want in the game to be in the game" no crap, God forbid a consumer want what he/she wants in a product to be in the actual product.

[Master Warder Z_]

For the benefit of a non-American poster (like me). We didn't have the same periods of racism in our history or focused on the same reasons. European discrimination for example was in racialised language but relates to group membership Americans wouldn't think is related to race (e.g. "slav" as a race or "moor" as a race) depending in the historical period.

I was actually thinking of my own land of birth with the last one.

Which is distinctively non American.

And the moors... *shudders*

[ZJR12911]

Regarding the interview with George R.R. Martin and his comment about the social system having teeth, yes, it had. That's why I think that a medieval social system is never portrait quite accurately in a fantasy world. After all, it is fantasy. I don't think that we have a "Disney"-like fantasy setting in Inquisition but it isn't really dark and gritty either.

 

I like imaginative exercises .

 

To begin with, I believe that if the Inquisitor could make some really bad choices, they would add to a darker world feeling. And with dark choices I mean options to screw things up. This ties in with the "Lead Them Or Fall" trailer. What if the Inquisitor almost fails and can only win at high costs because the player made some bad judgement calls (all of them intended, of course)?

 

Then there are rifts everywhere and it's literally raining demons from the sky. Conveniently most of the rifts are somewhere on the Outskirts. What if some of them had been closer to a populated area and had caused much more damage there? And maybe a citizen or farmer was so desperate that he made a deal with a demon? This could even lead to a smaller sidequest (I know we had something similar with Alexius but he is one of the bigger characters).

 

What if we got to see more of the consequences of the Orlesian Civil War? It would have been such an extreme contrast to encounter a group of refugees first - people who have lost their home, loved ones and wealth - just to see how different life for the Nobility at the Winter Palace is.

 

The game hints at other things such as slavery and addiction but all in all they are not really huge issues. And this is something that George R.R. Martin talks about a bit further in the interview when he asked what Aragorn did with the leftover Orcs after the war (15:28). IMHO, BioWare establishes problems in Inquisition but doesn't deal with them in a satisfying way. So to sum it up, if the world is at the edge of the abyss, make it more visible. Show more of the consequences. How does it affect the population?

 

Add more horror elements to this and I believe you could get a pretty dark and gritty world out of it.

Very well said, I hadn't even thought about the rifts being so conveniently placed, and you're right, there was no sense of impending doom. I know for a fact if the sky rips open and demons come out I am freaking the heck out. But everyone seems pretty chill about the whole thing.

[In Exile]

So you believe equality was better in the 1200s?

No. But it was different. The identity notions we have today weren't the same as in the past - e.g. regarding race and religion and discrimination and gender.

There's a difference between creating a setting that is true to form in terms of past bigotry and a type that incorporates exiting bigoted beliefs in a past setting.

It's why I gave the example of e.g. the Irish or Italians being considered non-white in the 19th century.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Dragon Age never felt all that dark to me. Creepy sure, but never dark. I suppose that comes from the fact that no matter what the protagonist can never really fail. 

[TheJediSaint]

Dragon Age never felt all that dark to me. Creepy sure, but never dark. I suppose that comes from the fact that no matter what the protagonist can never really fail. 

Hawke.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Hawke.

 

Yeah, but that was Kirkwall so who gives a toss about the blighted place. Besides you do still manage to stop Idiot One and Idiot Two from completely destroying the city. 

[Shechinah]

(to ComedicSociopathy) Unfortunatley, you always miss Idiot Three.

[ComedicSociopathy]

(to ComedicSociopathy) Unfortunatley, you always miss Idiot Three.

 

Who would that be? Meredith and Orsino are taken care of. 

[raging_monkey]

Who would that be? Meredith and Orsino are taken care of.

cory by technicality, or if spiteful hawke

[Wulfram]

Dragon Age is constrained by the fact that it's got a player controlled protagonist.  Trying to force a medieval mindset on the player is unlikely to work.

 

As a whole I think the series addresses class a fair amount.  It's not really a medieval world, but it's not a straightforwardly modern one either.  Alienages and dust town and people looking down at Anora and the contrast between rich and poor in Kirkwall.  Not so much in DAI, but that's mostly because it really rather neglects Thedosian society as a whole.

[In Exile]

Dragon Age is constrained by the fact that it's got a player controlled protagonist. Trying to force a medieval mindset on the player is unlikely to work.

As a whole I think the series addresses class a fair amount. It's not really a medieval world, but it's not a straightforwardly modern one either. Alienages and dust town and people looking down at Anora and the contrast between rich and poor in Kirkwall. Not so much in DAI, but that's mostly because it really rather neglects Thedosian society as a whole.

DAI kind of forces you into a position of absolute power and status by midway at the latest depending on how much side questing you do. There's no real opportunity for reflecting on that status because of the player-created protagonist and vague background.

The result of all of this is that - beside Sera - we don't really have a window into the society. And Sera is disliked for other reasons so her pro-proletariat speech is lost on most in the general tenor of her somewhat disagreeable personality and anti-elfy views.

[Han Shot First]

but reality is boring

 

Reality is far from being boring. If anyone thinks the real world is less interesting than fiction, pick up something on the final decades of the Roman Republic and the transition to Empire. It was a real life Game of Thrones. 

[raging_monkey]

Reality is far from being boring. If anyone thinks the real world is less interesting than fiction, pick up something on the final decades of the Roman Republic and the transition to Empire. It was a real life Game of Thrones.

the sarcasim missed twice in a row

[Shechinah]

(to Han Shot First) Or check out TvTropes' "Reality is Unrealistic"-trope or just a lot of TvTropes' tropes real life sections in general.

[Giantdeathrobot]

DAI kind of forces you into a position of absolute power and status by midway at the latest depending on how much side questing you do. There's no real opportunity for reflecting on that status because of the player-created protagonist and vague background.

The result of all of this is that - beside Sera - we don't really have a window into the society. And Sera is disliked for other reasons so her pro-proletariat speech is lost on most in the general tenor of her somewhat disagreeable personality and anti-elfy views.

 

Indeed. It would be similar to, say, reading only the Jon Snow chapters in ASOIAF. You'd be forgiven for thinking the series was solely about a cliche Chosen One teenage hero trying to stop an army of evil ice zombies from murderizing everyone, rather than an intricate tale of politics, social issues and complex characters alongside all the magical hocus-pocus.

 

I do think Inquisition should have spent more time on down to earth issues, rather than either the more high fantasy elements or the ball. But then again, it did the high fantasy elements (especially Here Lies the Abyss and Temple of Mythal) very well too, so to me it's no big deal.

[In Exile]

Indeed. It would be similar to, say, reading only the Jon Snow chapters in ASOIAF. You'd be forgiven for thinking the series was solely about a cliche Chosen One teenage hero trying to stop an army of evil ice zombies from murderizing everyone, rather than an intricate tale of politics, social issues and complex characters alongside all the magical hocus-pocus.

 

I do think Inquisition should have spent more time on down to earth issues, rather than either the more high fantasy elements or the ball. But then again, it did the high fantasy elements (especially Here Lies the Abyss and Temple of Mythal) very well too, so to me it's no big deal.

 

I think Bioware just wanted as much distance from DA2 as possible, and part of it has to do with the mindset of the writers. They wanted to write DA2 as mundane and down to earth - not everything is about stopping the apocalypse - and so DA:I was the opposite.

 

I think we'll find a better balance in DA:4. 

 

The real problem, IMO, was how they designed the story content as hived-off modules from the game. Val Royeaux and the Winter's Ball were an excellent opportunity to explore how tone-death the ultra-rich Orlesian society was but the quest was really too short to delve into that point. 

[Avejajed]

I love Disneyland. I used to work there. True story.

I would like a Solas themed ride.

[ZJR12911]

No. But it was different. The identity notions we have today weren't the same as in the past - e.g. regarding race and religion and discrimination and gender.

There's a difference between creating a setting that is true to form in terms of past bigotry and a type that incorporates exiting bigoted beliefs in a past setting.

It's why I gave the example of e.g. the Irish or Italians being considered non-white in the 19th century.

I'm not asking for 1960's American racism. I just wanted bigotry period, there was none.