12 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadow Quickpaw]

Bioware's roster of games have dominated my gaming habits for the last five years. Indeed, KotOR was probably my first (and favorite)video game, back in 2005, when I picked up the PC version.

 

Now, I just finished my sixth run of Dragon Age Inquisition, and have Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition on steam and BG2 EE on the way. I've played the first twenty or so minutes as a test run to make sure everything works.

 

Here's my problem: I've never played this series before. That may seem sacriligious, but its true. My concern is that I won't enjoy the game. Let me explain: I have no doubt whatsoever in my mind that Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 are fantastic games. But they're in a genre I've never really played before; CRPG top-down perspective.

 

I'm worried that current-and-last-gen Bioware games have spoiled me to the point that I won't be able to enjoy BG for what it is. And I SO want to! I was resolved to play BG1, 2, and Neverwinter Nights when I heard Commander Shepard quip: "Okay, Boo. If anyone bothers you: GO FOR THE EYES." I know for a FACT that's Minsc, and that there are so many other references to these three CRPGs that I miss because I haven't played those games yet.

 

And I've already found one! The prophesies of Aluando in Candlekeep becoming Dragon Age's Chanters! But I'm so afraid that I'm too used to current-day gaming conventions and will find it hard to enjoy this game.

 

So, to conclude: for veterans of Baldur's Gate (and anyone else who would like to chip in). Are there any tips you have for me to get the most out of BG and Neverwinter? For new players and modern throwback players alike? Please and thank you.

 

Sincerely: Shadow Quickpaw.

 

 

[Aasim]

So, to conclude: for veterans of Baldur's Gate (and anyone else who would like to chip in). Are there any tips you have for me to get the most out of BG and Neverwinter? For new players and modern throwback players alike? Please and thank you.

 

In all honesty - the one single computer game I play for the last few years is BG. All else, including Newerwinters/KOTOR/DA is (imo) ages behind BG gameplay. No other game ever brought tears to my eyes (Minsc's epilogue in ToB). 

You're luckly you've never played this gem before. I envy you.

Tips: Nothing, play the game, see for yourself why after all these years people still play it, and it had a remake.

[Grond0]

There are so many ways to play the game it's difficult to give tips.  I would say though that you shouldn't get discouraged if you die easily to start with.  In newer games staying alive can be quite easy.  That's not the case with BG - you need to know the game well to be able to survive over a long period.  The magic system is pretty complex, so unless you're willing to invest a lot of time up front in mastering it you might find it easier to get into the game by using a fighter type character in your initial play.

[JobacNoor]

I was a latecomer to BG as well, it wasn't until post-DAO that I got around to playing them.

 

In terms of story and characters, BG1 might leave quite a bit to be desired, but the gameplay is good and you'll still get a feel for some of the characters that'll be available in BG2. BG2 has a story and a cast of memorable characters that IMO was well ahead of it's time, the reason people keep playing it isn't just nostalgia, it's just simply really damn good and holds up to this day. Jaheira, Minsc and Viconia ended up being some of my favorite characters of all time, just to name a few. The visuals are technically outdated, but I personally really like the aesthetic and find it makes up for not being technically as "pretty" as modern RPG's.

 

If you're unfamiliar with D&D outside of these games like me, one thing that I found really counter-intuitive when I first started playing is that THAC0 and AC are stats that you want to have as low as possible, in contrast to everything else which is basically just higher = better. So when you take off that leather armor to equip plate mail, don't be like me and scratch your head and go "what? why is my armor set to ****ing zero when I'm wearing a huge suit of armor? is this a bug?", in fact you're going to want to get your AC way into the negatives eventually.

 

Starting out with a fighter type class is probably the easiest and most forgiving way to learn the game, you'll have a sturdy main character that can take a beating and you'll have party members around that'll let you familiarize yourself with how thieves, clerics, mages etc. work. Just make sure to have plenty of strength, dexterity and constitution. Speaking of which, in character creation, the grand total of attribute points you have to distribute among your stats is determined by dice roll. Depending on how cheesy you find it, you can keep hitting the reroll button until you get a really nice total like 90+ and then redistribute them as you see fit.

 

Oh, and mages learn spells from scrolls you get as loot, so once you find something like a scroll of fireball for the first time and your mage(s) don't know it yet, don't use that scroll to directly cast from. Have your mage memorize it (right click the scroll in your mage's inventory and choose "write magic") so they'll have it in their repertoire forever. Clerics get access to all their spells simply by leveling.

 

Other than that, I don't really have much else beyond the generic RPG advice of having a million different saves and making sure to build a fairly balanced party with at least some muscle in the front, at least one person that can heal, someone that can open locks and detect/disarm traps and at least one mage.

 

Just take your time, explore and have fun!

[Shadow Quickpaw]

Okay, a few hours in and... Frustration. Confusion. Reloads.

 

And I think I know why: I get WAY too invested in the storylines of Bioware's games. It's why I play Bioware's games in the first place. And right now, I'm still stuck in the Inquisition funk.

 

So: I'll start up my main Inquisitor again to achieve Nightmare, and focus on that until the last bit of DLC for Inquisition is released. This same thing happened with ME3, I just got so weird and nearly depressed when I thought I was done playing it and really wasn't.

 

To conclude: I haven't given up on BG, you scoundrel! I just need to give it some more time. To be in the right mood.

[Bondari the Reloader]

I know you said you're taking a break from the game, so this is for when you come back to it.

 

I've never played KOTOR or ME, so I can't compare it to those, but one big difference compared to the DA games is that you're going to have to really pay attention to what the rest of your party is doing. There's no tactics menu like in DA, so often your party members will just stand around until you tell them to attack something (Imoen seems to like to shoot bad guys, though ). As others have mentioned, playing a fighter/ranger/paladin is the easiest character to start with, but eventually you're going to need spellcasters and you're going to need to keep an eye on them especially. (Neverwinter Nights is very different, but since this is the BG forum I'm just sticking to this game.)

 

The magic system is also very different in that there are no cooldowns for spells. On the one hand, it's awesome that you don't have to wait around to heal someone, but the tradeoff is that you can only memorize a certain number of spells per day. Resting is a key component of D&D games as it's the only way to replenish spells (and health if you don't have a cleric/druid/tons of potions). As you're learning what the different spells do, it helps to know that offensive spells are red, defensive/healing spells are blue, and information/utilitarian spells are white.

 

Another big difference is death. If your PC dies, the game is over. You can't have one of your other party members raise you or lug your gear to the nearest temple. This is another reason why playing a fighter who can take some hits is a good idea for a first run. Also, depending on the difficulty you're running, permanent death could be in play, meaning that the party member who died is gone for good. If the character's portrait is greyed out, he/she can still be raised. If the character portrait is gone, you're out of luck and you'll have to reload. I think permanent death is core rules and higher (hopefully someone else can confirm this), so if that's not something you want to deal with you should play on easy or normal.

 

Since you said you love Bioware games for the story, I'll just end with saying that the BG series has one of the best stories in any video game. However, BG1 takes a while for the story to get going, and it is very easy to wander into an area you're not ready for and get yourself killed (this game DOES NOT hold your hand about such things). My advice is to stick to the main North/South road that all the cities are on until after you've cleared the Nashkell Mines. Then you can venture off the beaten path with greater chances of surviving.

 

Hopefully this will help you enjoy the game. It's truly one of the all time greats! Happy adventuring, and always go for the eyes!

[Sifr]

Glad to see I'm not the only one who's never played BG, I tried back in 2013 when I bought the game, but kinda rage-quit after being killed a couple times and realising that the game really didn't pull any punches when it came to difficulty spikes and beefgates. I meant to pick it back up again, but didn't realise how long it'd been until I looked at the install date and realised I should rectify this gap in my BW gaming history.

 

So I'm currently trying my hardest not to completely fail my way through BG, NWN and Planescape Torment... and while I'm enjoying them immensely, I've also developed newfound sympathy for people who complained that RPGs have gotten way easier and dumbed down, because they're kinda right?

 

[Amirit]

To OP (who is already long gone) I can give an idea how to "dig" old isometric games. Pick up a new one in this area - PoE (Pillars of Eternity), if you are in to the plots and central lines or DOS (Divinity: Original Sins), if you prefer more free roaming - and play for a while. It will be much easier to make next step - towards classics, like BG. You will learn to ignore the graphics, accept everything in a text form and appreciate "book-ish" feeling of the game.  

[Grimwald the Wise]

JobacNoor wrote:

 

In terms of story and characters, BG1 might leave quite a bit to be desired, but the gameplay is good and you'll still get a feel for some of the characters that'll be available in BG2.

 

The problem with story and characters in BG1 can be solved by installing the BG1 NPC Project. This gives the NPCs character. It scarcely changes the actual game play, but it gives interaction between the characters. Nowadays I would never play BG1 without it.

 

The great thing is that the conversations between characters alter depending upon who is in your group. Thus, people like me who are totally addicted still come across new dialogue simply by changing one character.

[JobacNoor]

JobacNoor wrote:

 

In terms of story and characters, BG1 might leave quite a bit to be desired, but the gameplay is good and you'll still get a feel for some of the characters that'll be available in BG2.

 

The problem with story and characters in BG1 can be solved by installing the BG1 NPC Project. This gives the NPCs character. It scarcely changes the actual game play, but it gives interaction between the characters. Nowadays I would never play BG1 without it.

 

The great thing is that the conversations between characters alter depending upon who is in your group. Thus, people like me who are totally addicted still come across new dialogue simply by changing one character.

 

I'll check it out once I get around to replaying BG1 at some point.

[Shadow Quickpaw]

I haven't disappeared! (Not entirely, anyway). The ironic thing now is that I'm part of a DnD campaign with a bunch of friends, and my character is the "descendant" of Mr. Bhalspawn (not that anyone knows what I mean when I say that). I've been distracted with DAO mods lately though... Oooooh, shiny!

[FluxWing]

Something that might help you get through BG1-2 are these online resources that really helped me a lot when decided to take on this mountain of a game. I am not sure if we are allowed to post links to off-site sources, so below in bold is what to google for to find them, and why they are useful.

 

Generally the best source are the guides posted by DSimpson.

Especially his Class FAQ, where he reviews all classes and their usefulness, both as party members and protagonists. His AD&D Rules FAQ is also great as it explains all the dice rolling rules going on behind the scenes.

Both his FAQ/Walkthrough are great, I mostly used it as a reference to avoid missables and instant death scenarios, of which there are a lot of for the unprepared. Also he recommends and explains a few minor common mods.

 

Mike's RPG Center is a nice collection of lists of various things in the game. I found weapon- and armor-, magic scroll-lists were very useful. Also his list of NPCs which makes it very easy to compare them by stats. Nifty and more complete than any of the wikis that I have founds.

 

Play it Hardcore is a site I stumbled upon when "researching" this game, it also features a nice comparison of classes/kits but its main features are the level progressions lists for each class group. Also a list of what/how each stat affects your character and how much. They also provide a nice section on how to avoid instant death situations since they aim on no-reload play as I understand it.

 

 

 

One thing that might be difficult to realize is the power of mutli-classing. It will split your experience gained in half, which sounds awful, yet it doesn't mean you will have a 50% level in each class. Instead you will be more like 70-80% of both classes, which imho is better in most cases.

 

Examples from one of my 6 char custom party end stats at the end of BG 1:

lvl  8 Inquisitor,  lvl   8/7 Cleric/Ranger,  lvl   7/9 Fighter/Thief,    lvl 11 Shapeshifter, lvl  9 Monk, lvl    9 Sorceress.

Same party at the end of BG2 expansion:

lvl 31 Inquisitor, lvl 23/19 Cleric/Ranger, lvl 21/25 Fighter/Thief, lvl 28 Shapeshifter, lvl 38 Monk, lvl 28 Sorceress

 

Thieves usually have too much utility and too little combat abilities, so I would say that a Fighter/Thief is my favorite class, even though I usually prefer magic users.

[Grimwald the Wise]

I learnt the game before I had access to the web. That meant that I had to learn everything myself. It gave the game a much longer shelf life.