1401 réponses à ce sujet

[TheNightSlasher]

Meanwhile, everyone in the story got mad at the Quarians for losing the Morning War, but the Geth were essentially dormant until Sovereign showed up. It's not like they were a looming galactic menace or something.

True. Geth retreated beyong the Veil after the morning war. It was the reaper controlled geth, heretics that wanted to kill quarians. The 'geth' don't really want to.

 

You made a post saying 'All the Geth' wanted to wipe out the quarians. It's not true. Legion specifically says 'All Geth don't hate quarians'.

 

So, if we talk about present generation races, some quarians want to kill geth, some don't. I was wrong in saying otherwise. OK.

But Legion says that the Geth don't have any hostility towards quarians. Only the Geth that allied with the reapers (which were pushed to that limit by the quarians) wanted to kill quarians.

 

Only the quarians (some of them) want to wipe out all Geth. The Geth really don't want to do the same to quarians. Only the reaper controlled geth do.

[Loufi]

Also, keep in mind that the Quarians are ruled by a tiny military council, which has a monopoly on violence.

 

The Geth are one in that they reach a consensus on all that they do. Many Quarians might not have supported destroying the Geth.

 

All of the Geth supported killing the Quarians in the Morning War.

Geth agreed to not totally eradicate the quarians though, because they didn't know what were the consequences of a genocide.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

No.

 

The Quarians are ruled by the admirals -now- but that's because circumstances changed. They had a proper government back on Rannoch. A significant portion of the Quarians sided with the Geth.

 

The Geth are programs sharing space either in servers or in platforms. They seek to reach a consensus among all the programs they are connected with, which may be only one platform until they can reconnect to the network... moot point during the Morning War, because all Geth on Rannoch were connected. They didn't want to kill the Quarians though. If they had wanted to do that, then the Quarians would have never escaped. They prioritized their own survival higher than the life of individual Quarians, which allowed them to defend themselves against their makers. Their solution was a Quarian exodus instead of genocide.

 

Those two lines are separate points. I should've explained that better. Long story short, Geth are a hive mind, Quarians aren't. If the Geth fight, they all decided to fight. If the Quarians fight, it's because leaders decided to do so, especially in the contemporary period when they're ruled by the Admiralty.

[DaemionMoadrin]

 

Yeah and the Krogans do a better job of being little shits than the Quarians do, so I'm not seeing your point here. Krogan don't actively hunt the races that subjugated them. They're incredibly pissed off, and angry, but they don't actually do anything because they value what life they do have and a good number of them are trying to implement cultural advancement - Krogan don't just follow Wrex in ME3 because he says so, they follow him because they believe in a future for their people.

 

Quarians, rather than actually trying to find another planetto inhabit, attempt to martyr themselves. Consider what they will have to go through to start living on Rannoch without their suits, you can't tell me they never though about doing that with another planet. So why didn't they? Because they chose to be bitter as **** and plot to re-take their homeworld because they're a tad bit salty that they lost it to "toasters"

 

I'm not 100% sure but I believe that the Quarians were looking for a new home the entire time. Wasn't there a mission with scouts? Tali talks about it a lot. She also explains that it would be permanent because the Quarians would have to expose themselves to the new environment and adapt to it over generations. They could never go back to Rannoch then.

Another problem is that habitable worlds are rare and fought over (polically at least). The Quarians have not enough influence to gain a planet for themselves.

 

ALSO, I'd like to note the fact that the reason no one gives a **** that the Quarians lost their home planet is because they completely and totally violated a galactic law that said no one would invent AI because it would just lead to destruction.

 

Again, not sure if I am right but wasn't that law created after the Morning War, because of the Quarian's blunders?

[Kenny Bania]

lolspnerds

[Dunmer of Redoran]

True. Geth retreated beyong the Veil after the morning war. It was the reaper controlled geth, heretics that wanted to kill quarians. The 'geth' don't really want to.

 

You made a post saying 'All the Geth' wanted to wipe out the quarians. It's not true. Legion specifically says 'All Geth don't hate quarians'.

 

So, if we talk about present generation races, some quarians want to kill geth, some don't. I was wrong in saying otherwise. OK.

But Legion says that the Geth don't have any hostility towards quarians. Only the Geth that allied with the reapers (which were pushed to that limit by the quarians) wanted to kill quarians.

 

Only the quarians (some of them) want to wipe out all Geth. The Geth really don't want to do the same to quarians. Only the reaper controlled geth do.

 

It's not about hostility. The Geth never hated the Quarians, but did see fit to kill them. It was purely a matter of practicality on their part.

 

 

Geth agreed to not totally eradicate the quarians though.

 

When the Quarians were already fleeing. Once the Quarians had abandoned all hope, the Geth stopped. Until then, they showed no mercy.

[TheNightSlasher]

It's not about hostility. The Geth never hated the Quarians, but did see fit to kill them. It was purely a matter of practicality on their part

Only when the quarians pushed them. Otherwise, they just retreated beyond the Veil and stayed dormant, as you said.

 

For example, the Geth didn't go to the migrant fleet and try to kill the quarians. Unfortunately, I can't say the same for quarians.

 

 

When the Quarians were already fleeing. Once the Quarians had abandoned all hope, the Geth stopped. Until then, they showed no mercy.

Yes, they showed no mercy. But who started it? Quarians.

 

When someone tries to kill you, you fight back until the threat is over. Exactly what the geth did.

[TheN7Penguin]

If you were locked away in a suit for your entire life, barely ever feeling the wind in your hair or the warmth of the sun on your skin. In fact, your only chance at really feeling anything would be using nerve stimulator programmes built into your suit, and if you wanted to feel something yourself you'd have to risk getting ill to do so... No one would hardly be the nicest person ever. Instead of hating Quarians, you should feel sorry for them.

 

And then promptly kill all Geth.

[Creator Limbs]

The only reason the Krogan don't hunt the other races is because they lack the manpower to do so. If they hadn't gotten Genophage'd they never would've given up. As soon as they get their cure, it is strongly hinted at the end of ME3 that they're going back to their old principles if Wreav--a normal Krogan--is their leader. Only with a taskmaster like Wrex do they learn to hold back.

Why would you ever cure the genophage if Wreav is slotted to lead the Krogan? That sounds like poor planning on your part. Whether or not the genophage is cured is completely in Shepard's hands. And Wrev's a goddamn moron. I'd hope even the dumbest Shepard you could possibly play would realize this.

The Quarians do try to find another planet but the Council refuses to give them any help. The Council is obsessed with screwing over everyone besides their own three races. The Quarians alone were on the verge of defeating the Geth until the Reapers intervened. If the Council had sent an expedition to the Far Rim as soon as the Morning War broke out, that's it. It would've been over. Crisis averted.

They broke a galactic law. Quarians had a seat on the council that they forfeited as soon as they started fiddling with AI.

And also, no. The Council's idea on this was "They did it, they can fix it." Which is a fair attitude. The Quarians couldn't defeat the Geth, and the Geth didn't want to kill their creators to begin with. So they chased them to the edge of their system and let them escape. If they re-entered Geth space, they were killed. The Geth wanted to be left alone if they couldn't co-exist.
 

Instead the Council bitterly allowed the Quarians to almost get exterminated and didn't do jack **** about the Geth, even after the fact.

Again, that galactic law biting the Quarians in the ass. Why would the council do anything about the Geth if they never left the Veil? The Geth didn't try to conquer other worlds, they didn't kill anybody outside of Geth space. Why would the council bother?

[DaemionMoadrin]

Was Legion around during the Morning War?

 

We don't know. Geth are basically immortal, they are just everchanging code. Some of the Geth that make up Legion (weren't there 7000 programs running on that platform?) might have been around back then.

 

Those two lines are separate points. I should've explained that better. Long story short, Geth are a hive mind, Quarians aren't. If the Geth fight, they all decided to fight. If the Quarians fight, it's because leaders decided to do so, especially in the contemporary period when they're ruled by the Admiralty.

 

Geth are not a hive mind as stated by resident Geth expert Tali.

 

Each program was designed to do a certain task and has only very little resources left for something else. By combining their efforts the Geth become more efficient, they basically eliminate redundancies and free up more processing power. They become smarter.

 

However, they do not all share the same opinion, otherwise there would be no need to reach a consensus. The Geth are a true democracy, they vote on everything and then accept that result. Again, not all Geth are permanently connected to the Collective, so in a lot of cases a single platform has to make a decision without knowing what all Geth would decide.

[Creator Limbs]

I'm not 100% sure but I believe that the Quarians were looking for a new home the entire time. Wasn't there a mission with scouts? Tali talks about it a lot. She also explains that it would be permanent because the Quarians would have to expose themselves to the new environment and adapt to it over generations. They could never go back to Rannoch then.
Another problem is that habitable worlds are rare and fought over (polically at least). The Quarians have not enough influence to gain a planet for themselves.

I'm ignoring your question about the law because frankly i don't care but:

Why the obsession with going back to Rannoch? Just make a goddamn new home already, fuck.

[TheN7Penguin]

"They did it, they can fix it" - Because that attitude has worked for both the Quarians and the Krogan (when the Salarians decided to solve their own issues).

[Quarian Master Race]

I think even QMR would say that some of the main Quarians come off as hand wringing douche bags.

Yep, I hate Koris almost as much as the non-quarian character I hate the least (Wrex, probably), and Tali gets pretty insufferable at a few points as well.

 

 They didn't want to kill the Quarians though. If they had wanted to do that, then the Quarians would have never escaped. They prioritized their own survival higher than the life of individual Quarians, which allowed them to defend themselves against their makers. Their solution was a Quarian exodus instead of genocide.

This is silly logic. If they "didn't want to kill the quarians" 99.5% of the quarian species wouldn't have died. The fact that they hesitated and a little over 1 million out of 2 billion (or 1/2000th of the population) managed to escape isn't self defense. You don't get those types of numbers simply due to demographics. 99.5% of the population aren't adults in the military, that's economically and biologically impossible. The geth had to stick billions of children and geriatrics on spikes to get to those numbers.

They wanted to kill their creators, and that's fine. They don't understand the organic concepts of noncombatants or of the value of an individual life, fine. It's when ME3 started to try and whitewash these excesses and make the geth into peace loving victims acting in self defense where it became a problem for me, as that contradicts all previous lore on the subject. It does the geth, the quarians and their story a disservice.

It made the conflict completely uninteresting and one sided unless you'd actually played through and read up on the subject, and made the narrative completely nonsensical. For example if there were a significant minority of quarian sympatisers who allied with and were presumably protected by the geth, how did literally all of them manage to get killed by the other quarians when the geth won the war?

Yet another ham fisted writing failure by Super Mac. Feels are more important than logic.

[Creator Limbs]

If you were locked away in a suit for your entire life, barely ever feeling the wind in your hair or the warmth of the sun on your skin. In fact, your only chance at really feeling anything would be using nerve stimulator programmes built into your suit, and if you wanted to feel something yourself you'd have to risk getting ill to do so... No one would hardly be the nicest person ever. Instead of hating Quarians, you should feel sorry for them.
 
And then promptly kill all Geth.

Then find a new planet. FFS.

[Creator Limbs]

"They did it, they can fix it" - Because that attitude has worked for both the Quarians and the Krogan (when the Salarians decided to solve their own issues).

 

I don't know about you, but I think the genophage worked pretty well for its intended purpose

[DaemionMoadrin]

Why the obsession with going back to Rannoch? Just make a goddamn new home already, ****.

 

No clue... because it was their ancestral home? Because it's the one thing that keeps them united, the dream they refuse to give up because it would mean they'd lose what it means to be a Quarian?

 

I don't know. That's the writer's territority.

[TheN7Penguin]

Rannoch is as important to the Quarians as Jerusalem is important to some religions on Earth.

 

And 919 years after the start of the first Crusade, there is STILL fighting over that. And that's just one CITY. You're talking about an entire PLANET here with religious significance to the Quarians as it was the home of their ancestors.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Yep, I hate Koris almost as much as the non-quarian character I hate the least (Wrex, probably), and Tali gets pretty insufferable at a few points as well.

 

This is silly logic. If they "didn't want to kill the quarians" 99.5% of the quarian species wouldn't have died. The fact that they hesitated and a little over 1 million out of 2 billion (or 1/2000th of the population) managed to escape isn't self defense. You don't get those types of numbers simply due to demographics. 99.5% of the population aren't adults in the military, that's economically and biologically impossible. The geth had to stick billions of children and geriatrics on spikes to get to those numbers.

They wanted to kill their creators, and that's fine. They don't understand the organic concepts of noncombatants or of the value of an individual life, fine. It's when ME3 started to try and whitewash these excesses and make the geth into peace loving victims acting in self defense where it became a problem for me, as that contradicts all previous lore on the subject. It does the geth, the quarians and their story a disservice.

It made the conflict completely uninteresting and one sided unless you'd actually played through and read up on the subject, and made the narrative completely nonsensical. For example if there were a significant minority of quarian sympatisers who allied with and were presumably protected by the geth, how did literally all of them manage to get killed by the other quarians when the geth won the war?

Yet another ham fisted writing failure by Super Mac. Feels are more important than logic.

 

99.5%? I guess I forgot about that number. That changes the narrative a lot. You right with everything you wrote... except for the part about the spikes. That's Reaper tech and was only used by the heretics under their command.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Why would you ever cure the genophage if Wreav is slotted to lead the Krogan? That sounds like poor planning on your part. Whether or not the genophage is cured is completely in Shepard's hands. And Wrev's a goddamn moron. I'd hope even the dumbest Shepard you could possibly play would realize this.


They broke a galactic law. Quarians had a seat on the council that they forfeited as soon as they started fiddling with AI.

And also, no. The Council's idea on this was "They did it, they can fix it." Which is a fair attitude. The Quarians couldn't defeat the Geth, and the Geth didn't want to kill their creators to begin with. So they chased them to the edge of their system and let them escape. If they re-entered Geth space, they were killed. The Geth wanted to be left alone if they couldn't co-exist.
 

Again, that galactic law biting the Quarians in the ass. Why would the council do anything about the Geth if they never left the Veil? The Geth didn't try to conquer other worlds, they didn't kill anybody outside of Geth space. Why would the council bother?

 

It's a fair attitude, but it's also extremely risky and given the context, rather petty. The risks far outweighed the benefits of helping the Quarians.

 

 

Only when the quarians pushed them. Otherwise, they just retreated beyond the Veil and stayed dormant, as you said.

 

For example, the Geth didn't go to the migrant fleet and try to kill the quarians. Unfortunately, I can't say the same for quarians.

 

 

Yes, they showed no mercy. But who started it? Quarians.

 

When someone tries to kill you, you fight back until the threat is over. Exactly what the geth did.

 

But many Quarians didn't try to kill them, if the Consensus mission is of any value. All Geth platforms as far as we know are combat-capable.

 

I highly doubt that pregnant Quarian women and Quarian children were much of a threat. Geth killed 'em anyway. No empathy.

 

They stopped chasing the Quarians, but even so, they would've continued killing them had the Quarians not fled. We have no solid contrary evidence.

 

 

Geth agreed to not totally eradicate the quarians though, because they didn't know what were the consequences of a genocide.

 

Still. They almost annihilated an entire race. The Quarian leaders tried to do this, but not all Quarians did, and the Quarians did not succeed.

 

We don't know. Geth are basically immortal, they are just everchanging code. Some of the Geth that make up Legion (weren't there 7000 programs running on that platform?) might have been around back then.

 

 

Geth are not a hive mind as stated by resident Geth expert Tali.

 

Each program was designed to do a certain task and has only very little resources left for something else. By combining their efforts the Geth become more efficient, they basically eliminate redundancies and free up more processing power. They become smarter.

 

However, they do not all share the same opinion, otherwise there would be no need to reach a consensus. The Geth are a true democracy, they vote on everything and then accept that result. Again, not all Geth are permanently connected to the Collective, so in a lot of cases a single platform has to make a decision without knowing what all Geth would decide.

 

But once that decision is made? All connected Geth commit to it.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

I really can't argue with four people at once. I'm backing out of this one until there's less people in the thread.

[Quarian Master Race]

Why the obsession with going back to Rannoch? Just make a goddamn new home already, ****.

physiological reasons. The species biology literally doesn't work in other biospheres without technological assistance.

Also, ask the same question of the geth. They literally live in space stations. Why bother keeping all these planets that you will potentiall get killed over when you can draw resources from asteroids, stars, gas giants and uninhabitable planets.

[nat in the hat]

I really can't argue with four people at once. I'm backing out of this one until there's less people in the thread.

We can talk about how smaller quarians boobs are?

[DaemionMoadrin]

I really can't argue with four people at once. I'm backing out of this one until there's less people in the thread.

 

Fine, I'm off to bed.

[TheN7Penguin]

You don't back out of an argument with four people.

 

You argue with four people simultaneously just to win and show how good at arguing you are.

[DaemionMoadrin]

We can talk about how smaller quarians boobs are?

 

No, shut up.