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[Dutch]

I've been thinking long and hard and have been using this source to guesstimate the entire population of thedas excluding sehereon and par vollon.

http://www.paolomala...eval_Growth.pdf

Since thedas most likely mirrors 11-13th century Europe, I estimate the population to at least be 60 million including dwarves and elves; just for kicks.

England in 1086 had a miserable population of just 1 million (wiki medieval demographics) although my link suggests it was at around 2 million in the 11-12 century including wales.

Here is how I would divide the 60 million number. This number is high because A) the 5th blight was not widespread B)the last blight that did affect all of thedas was some 300 years before Dragon if I'm not mistaken C) no recorded instance in DA lore about Black Plague like diseases.

Tevinter and Orlais would have the largest populations with Antiva being third. I read somewhere that Minrathous had a pop of 1 million being the largest city in thedas, it's more or less the Rome/Constantinople of Thedas.

Tevinter Imperium - 16 million
Orlais - 13 million
Antiva - 9 million
Nevarra - 7 million
Free Marchers - 6 million
Rivian - 4 million
Anderfels - 3 million
Ferelden - 2 million

60 million population of Thedas


Any thoughts? What are your guesstimates?

[MisterJB]

According to DAO's guide, Ferelden's population is one million at 9:30 Dragon.

[Eliastion]

Ferelden cannonically is said to have population of 1 million right before the Blight, though it might not include Avvars and Dalish present within the borders. Orlais is bigger and more populous, but definitely not six or seven times more populous - I'd say that it could have around 4 million at most. Rivain is relatively small and has some hard times behind it, I definitely wouldn't give it any bigger population than Ferelden. And Anderfels are hardly populated (and hardly habitable) at all.

These are the countries we know anything about. So, I'd say that you should aim closer to 20 million total rather than 60 for the whole continent.

[X Equestris]

Ferelden's population was stated to be a million before the Blight, and Orlais was said to be four times that, I believe. I agree that 20 million is probably a better estimate.

[Dutch]

Ferelden's population was stated to be a million before the Blight, and Orlais was said to be four times that, I believe. I agree that 20 million is probably a better estimate.

Really? I feel that's too small, and don't think anything Bioware previously wrote will be set in stone. Besides it's not logical that an empire like Orlais with its structure and economy is only supported by 4 million peps. Medieval France had a steady population of 15-20 million.

[Dutch]

Ferelden cannonically is said to have population of 1 million right before the Blight, though it might not include Avvars and Dalish present within the borders. Orlais is bigger and more populous, but definitely not six or seven times more populous - I'd say that it could have around 4 million at most. Rivain is relatively small and has some hard times behind it, I definitely wouldn't give it any bigger population than Ferelden. And Anderfels are hardly populated (and hardly habitable) at all.
These are the countries we know anything about. So, I'd say that you should aim closer to 20 million total rather than 60 for the whole continent.

I disagree on the Anderfels. It's harsh but where in the lore is it stated to be hardly populated in comparison to Ferelden? I think the 20million number is too small. Medieval France had that population at around the Black Plague period in 1300's.

[Dutch]

According to DAO's guide, Ferelden's population is one million at 9:30 Dragon.

Does that include Chassinid/Dwarves/Avvar/Dalish elves/city elves?

[Dutch]

Minrathous is said to have a population of 1 million. That is huge and would need a high population of people in the countryside for food production/farming. Pop of Thedas can't logically be 20million.

[X Equestris]

Does that include Chassinid/Dwarves/Avvar/Dalish elves/city elves?

Probably not. It might include city elves and surface dwarves, but I don know.

[Assassino01]

I'll make a few guesses based on a few comments made in and out of game.

 

Now in Origins Oghren states there are "a hundred times as many humans as dwarves". Now this is probably not a literal statement. But assume it is for arguments sake.

 

Well, Orzammar has a population of 100.000, and Kal'Sharok somewhat less than that, there are "almost as many dwarves above ground as bellow, so that would amount to perhaps 300.000 dwarves all in all. Now this would mean a total Thedosian human population of about 30 million. I've always assumed the elves are about 10% of the human population based partly on the frequency with which we meet them, so in total around 33 million people in Thedas in that estimate. 

 

Another way to estimate would be to go by the population of Ferelden, which is set at 1 million. Now, I would assume Ferelden is somewhat less densely populated than some of the other nations of Thedas, and more densely than others. I'll make a very wild guess.

 

Tevinter, humanity's oldest settlements lie here, and the climate is lush as well as having a long coastline which would provide for quite a large population. The map shows numerous cities. Tevinter also lack large inhospitable areas. So I would assume their population is the largest. 

So I'd assume Tevinter's population lies at around 10 million.

 

Orlais, the largest and most powerful human country in terms of territory and military. They have a huge amount of land. But much of it is remote, unsettled or outright hostile. The heartlands are densely populated, but much of the west and south are almost abandoned.

I'll still place their population at about 10 million, since they're considered Tevinter's "equal". 

 

The Free Marches are split, but are the breadbasket of Thedas. When they unite they're a formidable bunch. I actually think this is the most heavily populated area in Thedas. I'd assume there would be maybe 15 million people there.

 

Nevarra, Antiva and the Anderfells I'd say are about 5 million each. They're middle powers all. 

 

Rivain I'd say are about 1 million. They're probably densely populated, but are the smallest nation in Thedas. 

 

I've no clue how many Qunari (0f all races) there are on Seheron and Par Vollen. Maybe a few million. The Qunari keep strict population control. I'll make a wild guess and say 5 million here as well. 

 

As for the Dalish. I can't imagine there being more than perhaps 500.000 all together in all of Thedas, probably less. 

 

So based on this wild and unfounded guessing:

 

Tevinter: 10

Orlais: 10

Free Marches: 15

Nevarra: 5

Antiva: 5

Anderfells: 5

Qunari: 5

Rivain: 1

Ferelden: 1

Dalish: 0,5

Total: 57,5 million.

 

So adding a margin of error I'd say Thedas probably has a population of about 60 million. They seem to suffer massive invasions every hundred years or so, and in addition to plague and normal diseases and population controls in a medieval society you've also got the Blight, demons and the Qunari, keeping the continent from reaching its population potential. 

[Eliastion]

Well, the problem is that you base your calculations a lot on "power". But as for power, Neverra is rougly equal to Orlais, for example. Then there is the problem of borders that are... not very clearly defined in source material so it's to some extent a guesswork when we try comparing territories. Also politics seem to imply that while considerably weaker than Orlais, Ferelden is still seen as a partner to an extent - would it really be possible with 10% of Orlesian population combined with little political impact in the north and not all that big of a territory?

I'd set Orlais at around 4 millions, Tevinter around 6, maybe 7 (slaves included), Neverra somewhere around 3 million range, Free Marches and Antiva up to 5 each. Rivain could have around 1 million (it's quite small), Anderfels closer to 1 than to 2, their territory isn't much bigger than Ferelden and it is much less hospitable nowadays.

So, from biggest to smallest, it wouldn't be much more than:

Tevinter - 7 (slaves included)

Free Marches - 5

Antiva - 5

Orlais - 4

Nevarra - 3

Anderfels - 1

Ferelden - 1 (not counting Avvars)

Rivain - 1

and then various barbarians/dwarves/Dalish/unaccountable human population... I'd say, let's generously throw in another 3 millions spread through the whole of Thedas - and we end up with roughly 30 millions in continental Thedas.

[Eliastion]

Minrathous is said to have a population of 1 million. That is huge and would need a high population of people in the countryside for food production/farming. Pop of Thedas can't logically be 20million.

It was mentioned somewhere and I must reluctantly agree - writers of DA are really bad at accounting for the fact that people must eat. Inquisition army camping at glacier, methods by which food is supplied to places like Orzammar and Skyhold... Minrathous (if it were indeed around 1 million) would be just another place where things don't make much sense when you start thinking about feeding its people.

[Ashagar]

Tevinter is fantasy counterpart Rome, they likely employ some of the same things the romans did to keep the population of the city Rome which was well greater than a million alive and happy. As such I expect the Tevinter make use of things such as well made stone road networks, sewage, aqueducts, public water fountains and baths, massive water powered machinery that could grind up enough grain in a day to feed the entire city, etc.

 

In general I suspect the population of Tevinter is more urbanized than the other human states so I suspect the Tevinter overall population is higher than even Orlais even if it is smaller in territorial size.

[Eliastion]

Tevinter is fantasy counterpart Rome, they likely employ some of the same things the romans did to keep the population of the city Rome which was well greater than a million alive and happy. As such I expect the Tevinter make use of things such as well made stone road networks, sewage, aqueducts, public water fountains and baths, massive water powered machinery that could grind up enough grain in a day to feed the entire city, etc.

 

In general I suspect the population of Tevinter is more urbanized than the other human states so I suspect the Tevinter overall population is higher than even Orlais even if it is smaller in territorial size.

Rome was around one million according to the highest estimates, the lowest ones place it around half that number  

 

Also, urbanization doesn't mean more population. If people move to the cities, they still need (or SHOULD need, in Thedas it seems to be somewhat disregarded) food and it can't be grown in cities. So, basically, population is still closely linked to potential for food production regardless of percentage of people living in cities.

You can have some supermill that grinds enough grain to feed a nation, but you still need arable land to grow this grain and people to cultivate it  

 

Still, considering Tevinter to be the biggest population-wise nation on the continent is a sound idea and Orlais has relatively small area that can be expected to be reasonably densely populated - Dales are supposedly too arid (yeah, I remember all those waterfalls, but then again, gameplay vs world-building), West consists of deserts and mountains... Not so much trully hospitable land out there.

[Assassino01]

The thing is, Orlais is so freaking huge on the map. I very much doubt they only have a population of around 4 million. The settlements there are seemingly larger and far older than those in Ferelden. Ferelden only has one city of note, Denerim, with a population of 70.000. Minrathous is said to have a population of 1 million, and Starkhaven and Val'Roux are described as being "among the largest" cities in Thedas, so they likely have near that number of people. Which would also indicate a large population in the countryside as well as in other smaller cities. 

While vast streches of Orlaisian territory is likely sparsely populated I imagine that the coastline, as well as the "heartlands" are very densely populated. Tuscany alone used had a population of around 2 million before the Black death in europe, and the Orleasian heartlands seem both larger and as wealthy. 

 

Ferelden's population is scattered and concentrated around Denerim and the Bannorn. The reason they're seen as a "threat" by Orlais is because the population is so heavily militarized. Orlais may have more people. But the Ferelden tradition and focus on martial ability gives them an advantage when an army must be gathered. Every grown man in Ferelden can fight. 95% of grown men in Orlais are likely peasants or at best merchant class traders. 

 

As for Nevarra, the reason they can oppose Orlais might be because the Orleasians must split their forces all over their vast empire, while the Nevarrans must defend a smaller territory. Perhaps their army is simply better led and drilled. They're a rival of Orlais in any case, not their equal. 

[Ashagar]

Navarra also literally brings armies of specially preserved undead that they would normally keep in their many Necropolises on top of the living solders they have when they go to war which means they field bigger armies than they normally would be capable of. Its likely what helps to make them a bigger threat than they would otherwise be.

[Ashagar]

Rome was around one million according to the highest estimates, the lowest ones place it around half that number

 

 

It depends really the population is commonly believed to be over a million in 210 AD but dropped to 500,000 by 273 likely in great part to the Plague of Cypian which was likely much one of the first outbreaks of smallpox, the first being Antonine's Plague, which decimated the population of the Roman empire and beyond between 250 AD and 270 AD killing 5,000 people a day in Rome between 255 and 266 at the height of the plague. Numbers tend to get a little skewed when plagues kill off vast chunks of the populations and further more cause shortages in manpower in agriculture and the roman military. 

[Eliastion]

Nevarra doesn't really field armies undead as that would mean openly going against Chantry and Circle system. Also, they have rivals/enemies in every direction - despite smaller size, they have longer borders to defend than Orlais does. Even so, they're - depending on the source - considered to be equal to Orlais in terms of power.

And as for how big are cities - I think I read somewhere about Val Royeaux being three or four times the population of Denerim. Which would mean 250 000 at most.

[Assassino01]

Most of Nevarra's neighbors are small city states in the Free Marches, or the Tevinter Imperium in the north, a rival of Orlais, and in constant war with the Qunari. Orlais on the other hand needs to garrison its huge territory against the occasional peasant revolt or elven rebellion as well as Ferelden and Nevarra. Besides, the population of a country does not need to have very much to do with its power. Sweden was considered a Great Power in the 17th century, while Poland was not. Poland at the time had 10 million inhabitants, Sweden had 1 million. 

[Eliastion]

Most of Nevarra's neighbors are small city states in the Free Marches, or the Tevinter Imperium in the north, a rival of Orlais, and in constant war with Orlais. Orlais on the other hand needs to garrison its huge territory against the occasional peasant revolt or elven rebellion as well as Ferelden and Nevarra. Besides, the population of a country does not need to have very much to do with its power. Sweden was considered a Great Power in the 17th century, while Poland was not. Poland at the time had 10 million inhabitants, Sweden had 1 million. 

Yet population is a contributing factor, also problems of Poland in 17th century stemmed from its internal problems... and you should really specify the part of 17th century you're speaking of, since in early 17th century it most definitely was a great power while at the end of 17th century it didn't really have 10 million inhabitants anymore. 

 

As for political situation of Nevarra, forgive me, but you're just making it up. Orlais has nothing to fear from Ferelden or Anderfels and its border with Tevinter is really short and in relatively unimportant area (if they even have common border, as this heavily depends on what version of political map approximation you take). Their only potentially dangerous neighbor is Nevarra. Nevarra, on the other hand, has not only a long border with Orlais (and shaped in a way that makes it more difficult to defend), they actually have much less stable border with Tevinter (though these guys have their own problems) on top of poor relations with Free Marches that actually can and on occasion do unite since they regard Nevarra as a constant threat. I don't say they need to guard these borders as carefully as that with Orlais, but they do need to guard them while Orlais is completely or almost completely safe from most directions. And their inner problems aren't as severe as you paint them - that is until the civil war where both sides had actual military. Before that, though, in time the power estimations seem to refer to, Orlais was supposedly in relatively stable situation, rebellions that could undermine its position further only came later.

[Assassino01]

If my example of Sweden and Poland does not satisfy you I would instead use Prussia which (which Nevarra seems partly based on), against France which Orlais is based on.

Note also that Nevarra only won a war with Orlais when most of the Empire's forces were busy fighting Ferelden.

Anyway, my point is that millitary might is not a Good indicator of population.

[Eliastion]

Well, you were the one that brought up Orlesian military and judged Nevarra, Antiva and Anderfels based on them being "middle powers" whatever that would mean.

[Assassino01]

Primarily I brought up Orlais' military because it should logically since Orlais is a feudal state, be based on peasant levies in wartime, and thus if the most powerful in all Thedas Orlais must have a fairly decent population. But since we do not know the organization of most other states in Thedas it is difficult to estimate their population from implied millitary strenght.

 

By middle powers I mean they are not one of the two "Great powers" as I see it, which are Orlais and Tevinter (also the Qun), nor among the weak minor powers Ferelden, Rivain, individual Free Marcher states.

 

Anyway, since we have so very little to go on it is hard to have a real discussion about the subject. 

[Mr Plow]

I like to think that somewhere else on the planet resides the long forgotten Jade Empire

[EnricoDandolo]

As far as size is concerned, let's assume it's about 350 km from Redcliffe to Denerim -- on good roads, an army moving at a forced march covers about 50 to 60km a day. Assume the Darkspawn horde, which can move either faster or slower, depending on how organised the Archdemon is, take about two days' march to reach Denerim in force, another two days to initially breach the city's defenses, then get embroiled in street-to-street fighting. By the time the vanguard of the allied army arrives, most of the city -- except for the walled-off alienage -- has fallen and the city is in the hands of the archdemon. So a week of marching until the army arrives, marching at about 50 km a day, making 350 km. For comparison, that's about the distance between London and Manchester. (Note that the army would have marched along the Imperial highway, not cross-country, but I can't be bothered to take the meanderings of that road into account). 

 

Extrapolating from that, that leads to the assumption that the markers on the map (http://img1.wikia.no...0/ThedasMap.jpg) are 55 km each. (1 km = 3.38 pixels. Fact.) Accordingly, every square of the map roughly equals 3025 km ². I'm going to be counting area by roughly filling those squares in, regardless of terrain, and then adjusting population density. 

 

1) Ferelden. Area of ~193,600 km² from the Waking Sea to the Korcari Wilds and from the Frostbacks to the Amaranthine Ocean. Compare England and Wales, with about 150000 km². Of course, much of this land is hostile to agriculture. 1 to 3 million seems appropriate for a country with a cold and humid climate and a mountainous and rocky terrain. Denerim is the largest city at around 70k inhabitants, with Gwaren, Highever and Jader probably numbering between 10k and 25k inhabitants. These numbers are before the Blight -- Denerim alone will probably have lost more than half its population after the Darkspawn occupation. Some areas of the country, basically everything south of Lothering, have been rendered completely inhospitable for the next century or so. I imagine internal Blight-refugees account for what appears to be an increased population density in the Hinterlands. Compare England respectively London, with the caveat that London is a lot more centrally located to the north European trade networks than Denerim is to the Waking Sea. Population is centred around the Bannorn and Lake Calenhad, but even here population density is fairly low.

 

2) Orlais. I'd go for about 20 million people here, instinctively, but that doesn't really match the numbers. Much of the Empire's agriculture is centered around Lake Celestine, though the Heartlands stretch all the way to Val Chevin and total an area of 72,600 km². This area likely supplies the vast amounts of food needed to support Val Royeaux, which numbers between 300k-500k inhabitants at the very largest. As the seat of the Sunburst Throne, it is a major pilgrimage site in addition to being the home of what appears to be southern Thedas' only university. The population density of the Heartlands probably is around 55 / km². In the Dales and the area around Ghislain, 35 / km² seems more appropriate, and in the rest of the Orlesian Empire -- counting the inhospitable Western Approach, Tirashan and Nahashin Marches and clocking in at 311,500 km² -- it's probably safest to speak of an average of 10 / km². Taking into account each area's respective proportion of the Orlesian Empire's size, this gives us the following estimates:

• Heartslands including Val Royeaux: 5 million
• Dales & Ghislain: 3.4 million
• Rest of the Empire: 3.1 million
• Orlais total: 11.5 million

So Orlais is considerably smaller than medieval France, despite having a much higher population density in its core territories. This is because its size on the map is treacherous, including large areas of inhospitable terrain.

 

3) Free Marches. For the area as a whole, reaching from Cumberland to Wycome and about 121,000 km² in size, I'd reckon a population density of about 25 / km² seems appropriate. The standard is distorted, however, by the Free Cities themselves. Kirkwall is the only one we see in game. Judging from the map and buildings, I'd say it has a population of about 100k, counting refugees (Hawke personally killed half the city's population, though). Starkhaven and Cumberland are about 150k each, and Tantervale, Ostwick, Markham, Ansburg etc. 50-75k. each. By medieval standards, that makes all of them fairly massive cities. Total population, just under 4 million. 

 

4) Tevinter Imperium. Now this one's tricky. Lore says Minrathous has a million inhabitants. Even taking into account the chance of this being an exaggeration, that suggests very high population density in a large area around it. Refugees from Seheron are important. The Imperium also has its share of large cities: Vyrantium and Qarinus are probably the size of Val Royeaux, each, and the other cities we see on the map are the size of Starkhaven. These dozen cities then would together count for a population of about 3.5 million, and that's not counting other cities, of which there must be quite a few. How can this be explained? Magic, probably. As Dorian says, "a Tevinter can't cross the room without casting a spell." And Magister Alexius implies that mages are used for public labours. Extensive use of magic in agriculture, whether still practised or centuries old, could explain Minrathous' canonical population. All in all, I'd estimate the Tevene population at 15 to 20 million, though it's very hard to do so accurately since we have no idea what agriculture there looks like.

 

5) Anderfels. I can't imagine that the Anderfels can support more than at most 200k people. The vast majority of the land is blighted. Between summerly heat and winterly dust storms, agriculture should be nigh-impossible, and I doubt that food is imported on a large scale. I believe I read somewhere than one in a hundred Anders is a Grey Warden?