You also didn't have to do a single boring chore type quest in DA:O unless you wanted to. DA:I requires you to do 124 power worth of slog if you want to finish the main story.
Not true at all. You can forgo the collection quests if you don't want to do them and go around closing rifts, capturing keeps, raiding tombs or, after a certain point, just buy power, if you want.
You could do those along the way while doing the main quests and there were more interesting side quests as well. In DA:I the main plot is mostly clustered in its' own little areas such as the temple of sacred ashes ruins, therinfall redoubt, the winter palace, etc...which leaves all these big empty zones with nothing to do in them aside from chores and killing generic repetitive enemies. You also didn't have to do a single boring chore type quest in DA:O unless you wanted to. DA:I requires you to do 124 power worth of slog if you want to finish the main story.
What you consider a chore...some consider fun. I liked gaining power and helping the refugees. I enjoyed discovering the other agents.
I'm not saying your lazy...but it seems in this day and age people just want things instantly handed to them or they want a virtual interactive novel instead of a game.
You do realize they will NEVER get rid of these quests right? There might be less of them...but they will never be eradicated from the game.
I also did a playthrough in 50 hours and got 90% done. Its not that hard.
And its a shame you don't like exploration. There are some beautiful areas of the game and I find things I've never found before.
Not true at all. You can forgo the collection quests if you don't want to do them and go around closing rifts, capturing keeps, raiding tombs or, after a certain point, just buy power, if you want.
Yep.
Did a playthrough where I did bare essentials in the Hinterlands to get all the agents. I didnt Collect shards. I still made alot of gold, and gained enough power and this playthrough in 50 hours.
The problem is people want a 20 hour game. Thats never going to happen. Nobody in their right mind will pay $70 for 20 hours worth of content
Not true at all. You can forgo the collection quests if you don't want to do them and go around closing rifts, capturing keeps, raiding tombs or, after a certain point, just buy power, if you want.
I consider closing rifts, establishing camps, etc...to be just as boring as collecting bear claws and picking herbs. If there wasn't a power requirement this wouldn't be an issue. There's no reason for it other than to force you to do chores to...pad out the game time?
What you consider a chore...some consider fun. I liked gaining power and helping the refugees. I enjoyed discovering the other agents.
I'm not saying your lazy...but it seems in this day and age people just want things instantly handed to them or they want a virtual interactive novel instead of a game.
You do realize they will NEVER get rid of these quests right? There might be less of them...but they will never be eradicated from the game.
I also did a playthrough in 50 hours and got 90% done. Its not that hard.
And its a shame you don't like exploration. There are some beautiful areas of the game and I find things I've never found before.
It's not hard, it's boring. There's no need to get nasty, I'm far from lazy or wanting instant gratification. I love exploration when there is actually something interesting to find and fun things to do along the way. Aimless wandering while looking at the trees and flowers does nothing for me. As I've mentioned in the past I live in Alaska, if I want to see the stunning beauty of nature I can just look out my window and real life puts even the most gorgeous game to shame (for example here's a picture of the parking lot at my work
Yep.
Did a playthrough where I did bare essentials in the Hinterlands to get all the agents. I didnt Collect shards. I still made alot of gold, and gained enough power and this playthrough in 50 hours.
The problem is people want a 20 hour game. Thats never going to happen. Nobody in their right mind will pay $70 for 20 hours worth of content
People don't want a 20 hour game, no one has said that. People want deeper, more engaging, more interesting content included as well as the shallow, easy fetch quests. No one is trying to completely take away your fetch quests.
@Nefla: You don't consider slogging through the Deep Roads or the Fade "padding"?
Both of them just lengthen the time for the real quests: "Choose King, Clear Tower"
Same with the much shorter "Get my Acorn" nonsense... just let me get to the werewolves already.
And don't get me started on the Temple of Sacred Ashes... the door, is RIGHT THERE Warden! Like... "right... there". But... we need to magic it so you have to go through a boorishly long temple to go through the tedious tests so you can get back to the story.
Don't get me wrong - I used to love DA:O - but I won't pretend there's something innovative where I feel it's just the same o'le methods used. In truth... I appreciate that DA:I doesn't force me to do content just because - when I could find another way around it (not everything of course - some things follow the most common linear method)
@Nefla: You don't consider slogging through the Deep Roads or the Fade "padding"?
Both of them just lengthen the time for the real quests: "Choose King, Clear Tower"
Same with the much shorter "Get my Acorn" nonsense... just let me get to the werewolves already.
And don't get me started on the Temple of Sacred Ashes... the door, is RIGHT THERE Warden! Like... "right... there". But... we need to magic it so you have to go through a boorishly long temple to go through the tedious tests so you can get back to the story.
Don't get me wrong - I used to love DA:O - but I won't pretend there's something innovative where I feel it's just the same o'le methods used. In truth... I appreciate that DA:I doesn't force me to do content just because - when I could find another way around it (not everything of course - some things follow the most common linear method)
I hate Inquisition exactly because it doesn't. What I absolutely love in Origins is exactly the fact that I do stuff while doing the main quest. Inquisition is boring because I can skip it all, so when I do it I feel like I'm doing pointless things, while in Origins I felt like it was part of the game. I would gladly take Suledin Keep if it was part of the story, a lot better than just going there for the sake of going, if I don't my life changes nothing. In fact I don't even need to unlock Emprise, or Hissing, or Forbidden, or Emerald, or Exatled, and so on. I need only Western Approach in Orlais. It makes the whole of all other regions pointless. I really really wish this game forced me to do things in all maps to progress so that it felt less stupid jumping like a bunny and using sonar like a bat, I'm a Rabbat Inquistor.
It's not how difficult it is. That doesn't enter into it. It could be as easy as walking across the map. It's how fun it is. In DA: O every single mission I had fun in doing. There was no grind to me. Every part of the game was the fun part. I didn't like "Well I have to complete this to do this. That's the key thing I'm trying to penetrate into peoples minds. Difficulty has nothing to do with it.
In DA: O. I did Shale's personal quest. I had fun with it. I learned more about his past. It was informative as well as it was interesting.
There are two more pages to read after your post so I don't know if anyone else brought this up yet, but Shale is a SHE. Now you know even more about her. 
It's not so naive, considering some of the statistics that are known about games.
Like how by most units sold of a game, if statistics are tracked, are never even finished. And if I look at my Steam library, this doesn't surprise me in the slightest. And some ME statistics are glaring as well, like how a large portion of the players (forgot how much exactly) never even saved Wrex on Virmire, or something like that. It's been a while and I'm too lazy to search.
My point is that they probably never expected completionism to be so widespread that it would lead to complaints of there being too much to do, or something like that
Mike Laidlaw expresssing his surprise at the completionist drive is a bit like a CoD developper being surprised at the competitiveness of it's player base (hence why I'm wondering how much the comment was doctored and/or taken out of context, I don't believe Mike Laidlaw is that naive).
To be fair (no, I'm serious) I think he was rather admitting that they catered to, yet still underestimated said completionist compulsions in their fanbase, rather than being surprised by their sheer existence.
Frankly, whenever I collected the last shard in an area, I said to myself "Wow, I just did that."
Been that way for 20 years, and it still gets me every time.
I'm not saying your lazy...but it seems in this day and age people just want things instantly handed to them or they want a virtual interactive novel instead of a game.
In all seriousness now.
You don't consider slogging through the Deep Roads or the Fade "padding"?
Both of them just lengthen the time for the real quests: "Choose King, Clear Tower"
Same with the much shorter "Get my Acorn" nonsense... just let me get to the werewolves already.
While you're doing those things, you get a bunch of story and lore. And everything you just mentioned is part of the main quests. Everything is connected. You need to do those things in order to advance the story, they serve a purpose. Were you expecting to arrive at Orzammar, "hey I need your army", "sure thing!" and that was it? In DAI you shouldn't be forced to do the sidequests, they have no relevance to the main story AT ALL. Nothing changes if you do or not these quests. The power and influence is a just a number you use to unlock main missions. They are there to force you to go to the worlds and do at least half of the fetch quests available in the game. If the main missions weren't locked, you would have no reason to go into most of the worlds. They are useless to the main story.
And don't get me started on the Temple of Sacred Ashes... the door, is RIGHT THERE Warden! Like... "right... there". But... we need to magic it so you have to go through a boorishly long temple to go through the tedious tests so you can get back to the story.
Riiiight, because something as important as the sacred ashes should be just lying around somewhere for anyone to take without being guarded or anything. But if you want to go down that road, What Pride Had Wrought is also a complete slog. The temple is right there, do you need to go through the jungle and kill the same generic mobs over and over again and then do the puzzles/tests to get in? You can choose not to do them, but then you have to fight some more mobs before getting to the well.
The good ones like shadowrun Dragonfall make if interesting with options for dealing with whatever it is you're delivering.People don't seem to realize that most, if not all, RPGs have you running errands for people, be it
Balder's Gate or Skyrim.
@Nefla: You don't consider slogging through the Deep Roads or the Fade "padding"?
Both of them just lengthen the time for the real quests: "Choose King, Clear Tower"
Same with the much shorter "Get my Acorn" nonsense... just let me get to the werewolves already.
And don't get me started on the Temple of Sacred Ashes... the door, is RIGHT THERE Warden! Like... "right... there". But... we need to magic it so you have to go through a boorishly long temple to go through the tedious tests so you can get back to the story.
Don't get me wrong - I used to love DA:O - but I won't pretend there's something innovative where I feel it's just the same o'le methods used. In truth... I appreciate that DA:I doesn't force me to do content just because - when I could find another way around it (not everything of course - some things follow the most common linear method)
I only consider things padding when they're pointless, forced, and not fun. It makes sense for the urn of sacred ashes to be guarded and I really liked the Indiana Jones style temple with riddles and traps. It makes no sense that I would have to distribute blankets and deliver potions otherwise the revered mothers in Val Royeaux won't talk to me and those tasks are not fun for me. I found the deep roads and the fade really fun the first time (the fade less so in later playthroughs because I already know where to go and what to do). I feel the opposite of you, I hated that DA:I forced me to do boring shallow chores in order to progress the main story. If there had been deeper and longer side quests that were actually fun that I could do instead then I would have no problem with the power requirement. You don't feel forced because I guess you found collecting herbs and closing rifts fun.
People don't seem to realize that most, if not all, RPGs have you running errands for people, be it
Balder's Gate or Skyrim.
Are those errands optional too, as they are in DAI?
I know this may not be the popular opinion. What fun would opinions be if they were all the same. I been thinking about this game. 90 percent of the entire game is running around doing stuff for other people. From nearly the very start when we enter the town. We have to do a countless number of (feels like mini quests) turn in "xx for this reward"
I don't know if I consider running around for hours picking up countless items. Turning in to other people fun. Is the next game. We are going to do twice as much work for no reward. The only reward seemed to be that the person helped your cause. You actually can skip nearly all the quest. It doesn't really change anything. At all.
The Boss still dies at the end. Everyone is saved. You can't screw up being the Hero. There's no number of different endings. Even with Mass Effect 3 the ending were slightly different. (The color) I just don't know if this is turning into the game. I fell in love with. Am I sincerely only one notices this.
For me this game feels like an MMORPG, it has all the mechanics for one it just only has you playing, that to me isn't the mechanics i like in a singleplayer rpg setting.
Hence the plethora of grindy fetch quests.. To this day i feel Bioware was testing the waters for a Dragon Age MMO.
Yep.
Did a playthrough where I did bare essentials in the Hinterlands to get all the agents. I didnt Collect shards. I still made alot of gold, and gained enough power and this playthrough in 50 hours.
The problem is people want a 20 hour game. Thats never going to happen. Nobody in their right mind will pay $70 for 20 hours worth of content
Is that really the problem?
People complained when Dragon Age II was too straight forward and "short" at 35 hours in the end, and the first act was essentially one giant fetch quest to make money.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Is that really the problem?
People complained when Dragon Age II was too straight forward and "short" at 35 hours in the end, and the first act was essentially one giant fetch quest to make money.
It was the best act though. I liked getting into the role of just being some immigrant, scrounging for a trip to make it big.
And the side quests all had little stories. Very few shallow or filler sidequests. And DA2 was built in a way where those sidequests expanded into big plots later. The search for that missing guy's wife led to your mom's death. Feynriel led to all kinds of neat choices and lore. Rescuing Shamus changed some details about how you approached Qunari. Same with Sister Petrice. Etc.. Everything was more than mere sidequests.
The lamer fetch quests were the ones when you found objects (like a bottle of wine) and just gave it back to some random NPC. Luckily, they didn't pad out the game with stuff like this.
For me this game feels like an MMORPG, it has all the mechanics for one it just only has you playing, that to me isn't the mechanics i like in a singleplayer rpg setting.
Hence the plethora of grindy fetch quests.. To this day i feel Bioware was testing the waters for a Dragon Age MMO.
yet MMO's derived that idea and design from games LIKE Baludrs Gate and Ultima in the past. Single player RPG's that had many side quest that fell into the vein of "recover X item or X amount of ingredients" for people.
That is not something beholden to a specific genre, it's part of RPG's as whole. It is disingenuous to say that it's a MMO mechanic when its a RPG mechanic.
Not true at all. You can forgo the collection quests if you don't want to do them and go around closing rifts, capturing keeps, raiding tombs or, after a certain point, just buy power, if you want.
I love how people often say "you just have to close a bunch of rifts and you get the power you need so you don't have to do the fetch quests". I found closing the first 2 or 3 rifts fun in my first playthrough but after that it was probably the most boring thing in the game, worse than fetch quests if you ask me. It's always the same demons, it's always the same two waves. There's nothing fun about doing literally the same thing 50 times. And it's not like they are all in the same place, you have to travel to one edge of the map to the other to find these rifts. So in my first (and only) playthrough I thought "screw this crap, let the demons kill everyone, it's not like I care about these so called NPCs that are in fact cardboard cutouts" but lol, nothing happens if you don't close the rifts, you can finish the game and leave every rift open, it's pathetic how little threat they pose in the worlds.
It was the best act though. I liked getting into the role of just being some immigrant, scrounging for a trip to make it big.
And the side quests all had little stories. Very few shallow or filler sidequests. And DA2 was built in a way where those sidequests expanded into big plots later. The search for that missing guy's wife led to your mom's death. Feynriel led to all kinds of neat choices and lore. Rescuing Shamus changed some details about how you approached Qunari. Same with Sister Petrice. Etc.. Everything was more than mere sidequests.
I agree, but the presentation in the end was essentially a long grind through sidequests. Calling a spade a spade into the mechanical design of the game, much like how you need to do some quests on the side to build up Inquisition influence. Even if they turned into major plot points later, which I love about Dragon Age II, it was still side-story tied to the main story, much like Inquisition.
While you're doing those things, you get a bunch of story and lore. And everything you just mentioned is part of the main quests. Everything is connected
Well...duh ... the main plot quests better be connected.
Is this supposed to be some counterpoint to DAI's quest progression? It makes no sense to use this argument.
Were you expecting to arrive at Orzammar, "hey I need your army", "sure thing!" and that was it?
Of course not. Implying that the quest content is actually MORE relevant to the story than DAI's is absurd though. Why else do you think Shale and Sten disapprove of whatever you do unless you use the "I-WIN" persuade skill?
They do serve a purpose of expanding the game's lore of course and there's no denying that DAO did a good job at that. What else would have drawn me into the world of Thedas otherwise?
Again, claiming that DAO does it BETTER than DAI is arguably a product of player nostalgic bias, because DAI expanded on the lore that was previously established in previous games in an equally if not more vigorous way. In fact DAI deconstructed many misconceptions and preconceptions about previous constructs from Wardens to Orlais to Tevinter.
The quests themselves were pretty nice, my favorite being the Elven questline with a peaceful resolution, but the fact of the matter is that DAO's main quests are all based on the concept you doing favors for people for them to help you.
If you don't look at it from a meta-game perspective, your Warden very often had NO IDEA if helping these people will actually fulfill your goal.
They all had nothing to do with the Blight beyond potentially recruiting allies.
Even from a story perspective, Loghain is entirely irrelevant beyond Ostagar and the Landsmeet.
On the other hand, DAI's main quests are entirely based on you actually foiling Corypheus's plans. They're all VERY DIRECTLY involved with the main plot.
You never know how it's going to turn out and every one of those quests.
Even the zones ALL deal with Corypheus, his minions, OR the after-effects of their actions.
Riiiight, because something as important as the sacred ashes should be just lying around somewhere for anyone to take without being guarded or anything. But if you want to go down that road, What Pride Had Wrought is also a complete slog. The temple is right there, do you need to go through the jungle and kill the same generic mobs over and over again and then do the puzzles/tests to get in? You can choose not to do them, but then you have to fight some more mobs before getting to the well.
This analogy is all wrong.
You don't "slog" through the temple. It's a fairly linear advancement towards the temple itself.
When you reach the temple, you have the option of respecting the temple itself or not giving a fig about it. Depending on various choices you made, you can learn a great deal about the lore of elves and their gods. There is literally no equivalent in DAO for this.
Regarding the puzzles, my 5 year old cousin can solve them.
I only consider things padding when they're pointless, forced, and not fun. It makes sense for the urn of sacred ashes to be guarded and I really liked the Indiana Jones style temple with riddles and traps. It makes no sense that I would have to distribute blankets and deliver potions otherwise the revered mothers in Val Royeaux won't talk to me and those tasks are not fun for me. I found the deep roads and the fade really fun the first time (the fade less so in later playthroughs because I already know where to go and what to do). I feel the opposite of you, I hated that DA:I forced me to do boring shallow chores in order to progress the main story. If there had been deeper and longer side quests that were actually fun that I could do instead then I would have no problem with the power requirement. You don't feel forced because I guess you found collecting herbs and closing rifts fun.
LOL.
At least doing the side quests in DAI is justified as you gaining literal and figurative power and influence in order to have the authority to speak to certain people in power so you can advance the cause of the Inquisition.
How does helping Kaitlyn or Cammen remotely relevant? They're all RP options sure, but to claim they are MORE RELEVANT to the story itself is just laughable.
inb4 you use the "drufallo escort" as a counterpoint. Yes... the occasional irrelevant fetch quest among a hundred is too much to bear.
You can gain power to advance the story in SO MANY WAYS that claiming that DAI FORCES you to do every side quest is borderline asinine.
Do I have to list them for you? I ended the game with 300+ power and I didn't even do everything.
Anyone who played DAI can refute this statement of yours. Stop it.
If you seriously claim to have NEVER done side quests in DAO then you're either playing 20 hour playthroughs or are blatantly lying.
---
I'm having a meltdown I know.
I love how people often say "you just have to close a bunch of rifts and you get the power you need so you don't have to do the fetch quests". I found closing the first 2 or 3 rifts fun in my first playthrough but after that it was probably the most boring thing in the game, worse than fetch quests if you ask me. It's always the same demons, it's always the same two waves. There's nothing fun about doing literally the same thing 50 times. And it's not like they are all in the same place, you have to travel to one edge of the map to the other to find these rifts. So in my first (and only) playthrough I thought "screw this crap, let the demons kill everyone, it's not like I care about these so called NPCs that are in fact cardboard cutouts" but lol, nothing happens if you don't close the rifts, you can finish the game and leave every rift open, it's pathetic how little threat they pose in the worlds.
Maybe if you tried the other things I mentioned as well, you might not have got so burnt out on rifts. To make them more interesting, try being 2 or 3 levels below the demons for the challenge. Also, your use of "cardboard cutouts" in reference to NPCs suggests that you don't think that the same could be said for NPCs in previous games. Please confirm, so I can begin laughing.
Maybe if you tried the other things I mentioned as well, you might not have got so burnt out on rifts. To make them more interesting, try being 2 or 3 levels below the demons for the challenge.
Honestly if playing the entire game in a completionist manner DOESN'T burn anyone out eventually then they are ... special.. or something.
Everything gets somewhat tedious on the same character late into the game when progression slows down to a halt.
At that point only the main story will keep someone interested and side quests become a chore.
Even I don't play DAI in a completionist manner anymore. I do around 5-6 zones completely while leaving or even outright ignoring those that don't please me as much. Similarly, I barely do any Chantry Board / Irregulars / Collective quests in my DAO playthroughs anymore. The major side quests are good enough for me.
Again, claiming that DAO does it BETTER than DAI is arguably a product of player nostalgic bias
Ok, again, in all seriousness. lol
If you read the post of the person I replied to, you would see that I was actually answering to someone saying that DAO's main quests are a complete waste of time and involve a lot of slogging. And I answered in that in mind.
You don't "slog" through the temple. It's a fairly linear advancement towards the temple itself.
Exactly. That's why the temple of sacred ashes isn't a slog either. Again, you should read the post of the person I replied too. 
When you reach the temple, you have the option of respecting the temple itself or not giving a fig about it. Depending on various choices you made, you can learn a great deal about the lore of elves and their gods. There is literally no equivalent in DAO for this.
No? The temple of the sacred ashes? You can learn a great deal about Andraste and her disciples. You can also respect the temple by removing all of your armor and weapons at the end or not give a fig about it. It's pretty similar in my eyes.
Retour en haut
