50 réponses à ce sujet

[Monster20862]

Why even have them at all? Getting to a point when you can no longer level up is a game killer for me.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

DAI enemies don't scale for the most part, so even though there technically is no hard cap in single player, there is a cap because you simply can't get any more XP. I'm sure if a toolkit is ever released, that will be modded and you will be able to level to 100 and beyond if you like.

[Monster20862]

It's too bad I play on console. I miss skyrim.

[Benman1964]

That's one of the most horrid non-features. Enemies don't scale with your level.

"Leave the Hinterlands! Will ya?"

[wepeel_]

There's a mod here that moves the enemy level cap to 30, meaning you can play the game as you like without having to worry about outleveling the opposition. Big boon for me, I would usually avoid things like exp-boosting perks in the past as I didn't want to become overleveled but still didn't want to skip content.

 

Having said that, there's also something to say about the lack of scaling. In D&D terms, a kobold should just be a kobold. It would be very odd if all kobolds were eventually level 20 and wielded awesome magical weapons just because you did.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I despise level scaling, so I'm very glad that DAI mostly doesn't do it.

[KaiserShep]

In my most thorough playthrough, I reached level 25 upon completion of the final battle, and there was just nothing more I could really do, since that included killing every dragon and whatnot.

 

As for level scaling, good riddance. Like, just imagine in Origins, if you were able to do Lothering later in the game, and you encountered those filthy peasants looking to get you for the reward money. Why would these backwater rubes be level 18? In Inquisition, I'd have level 25 nugs walking around post-campaign.

[Monster20862]

They should remove the whole three levels or lower no XP gain. I hate when I'm fighting a level 19 dragon and I'm all level 24 and do I get no XP points. Complete BS.

[Meave]

 

Having said that, there's also something to say about the lack of scaling. In D&D terms, a kobold should just be a kobold. It would be very odd if all kobolds were eventually level 20 and wielded awesome magical weapons just because you did.

 

and how often exactly do you meet kobolds in any DnD games on lvl 20? you either see dozens of kobold commandos or some scaled superkobolds.

[Keitaro57]

The best bet is probably a mix of the two system :

The levels of the enemies scales with you.

There is a level max cap for the enemies. Vary from one enemy to another (no level max for the red templar for exemple).`

The effect of the scaling can be tuned by the difficulty level : On the lower difficulty, weaker enemies are 2 level under yours (always gain some exp). On the Nightmare level, almost all the enemies are uber leveled (and amount of exp!)

[wepeel_]

and how often exactly do you meet kobolds in any DnD games on lvl 20? you either see dozens of kobold commandos or some scaled superkobolds.

 

That's what I mean. Scaled superkobolds retains the challenge but removes the immersion. Compare to DAI if at level 25 all highwaymen and mabari packs are suddenly also level 25 and seem able to kill a fereldan frostback.

 

 

The best bet is probably a mix of the two system :

The levels of the enemies scales with you.

There is a level max cap for the enemies. Vary from one enemy to another (no level max for the red templar for exemple).`

The effect of the scaling can be tuned by the difficulty level : On the lower difficulty, weaker enemies are 2 level under yours (always gain some exp). On the Nightmare level, almost all the enemies are uber leveled (and amount of exp!)

 

I essentially agree with this. Scaling is best when done stringently, looking at each enemy and deciding how powerful it's likely they could ever become.

[Sylvius the Mad]

and how often exactly do you meet kobolds in any DnD games on lvl 20? you either see dozens of kobold commandos or some scaled superkobolds.

And that's a problem.

If I find a whole village of kobolds, they should mostly be ordinary kobolds. Scaling them breaks the setting.

That said, an ordinary kobold with a hand crossbow, poisoned bolts, and a Ring of Improved Invisibility is a challenge for anyone. There is a way to add challenge without violating the lore.

[Dai Grepher]

Nightmare does have level scaling to a degree. But the enemies only stay the same level as you or one level higher. Scaling should be based on difficulty level. Easy, no scaling. Normal, equal scaling. Hard, one or two levels ahead at all times. Nightmare, three or four levels ahead at all times.

[McPartyson]

http://www.nexusmods...tion/mods/307/?

 

That mod will slow down XP if you want to stay somewhat challenged. I believe you can't go much higher then lvl 27 on a vanilla playthrough...and i really dont know why you would want to...the content just runs out. The respawns are quite minimal...and once all rifts are gone, and most of the big fights out of the way, there's barely anything left living in Thedas, lol.

[AlanC9]

and how often exactly do you meet kobolds in any DnD games on lvl 20?

Deekin?

[animedreamer]

and how often exactly do you meet kobolds in any DnD games on lvl 20? you either see dozens of kobold commandos or some scaled superkobolds.

That was their point, you shouldn't be encounter Super Kobolds simply because you are high level.

[Meave]

That was their point, you shouldn't be encounter Super Kobolds simply because you are high level.

 

their point was that you would encounter normal kobolds which is not true cos you would either encounter superkobolds or more likely some other creature which would try to be challenging. None wants to go beat lvl 1 monsters on lvl 20. No xp, no loot, no challenge, nothing...

[Sylvius the Mad]

their point was that you would encounter normal kobolds which is not true cos you would either encounter superkobolds or more likely some other creature which would try to be challenging. None wants to go beat lvl 1 monsters on lvl 20. No xp, no loot, no challenge, nothing...

But you should encounter level 1 kobolds. Because the vast majority if kobolds in the world are level 1.

Having all the level 1 kobolds suddenly vanish because I reached level 5 doesn't make any sense at all.

Also, what's the point of growing more powerful if everything grows powerful with you? We saw how that worked in Oblivion where there was a disincentive to leveling.

[eyezonlyii]

But you should encounter level 1 kobolds. Because the vast majority if kobolds in the world are level 1.

Having all the level 1 kobolds suddenly vanish because I reached level 5 doesn't make any sense at all.

Also, what's the point of growing more powerful if everything grows powerful with you? We saw how that worked in Oblivion where there was a disincentive to leveling.

Oh I was just about to post about Oblivion. As much as I liked the other elements in the game, that had to be my most frustrating experience ever. Like two mountain lions was just too much at almost any level.

[Monster20862]

I've spent many, many hours playing oblivion. It was my first real RPG experience. But having to hold off on levelling up because scaling was horrific was annoying.

[theflyingzamboni]

I despise level scaling, so I'm very glad that DAI mostly doesn't do it.

 

I think limited-range scaling is pretty good, where there's a small range within which they'll scale; which they did in DA:I, so kudos. It's a nice compromise when you can't be exactly sure of someone's level at a place they need to be or will be at for multiple levels.

 

And that's a problem.

If I find a whole village of kobolds, they should mostly be ordinary kobolds. Scaling them breaks the setting.

That said, an ordinary kobold with a hand crossbow, poisoned bolts, and a Ring of Improved Invisibility is a challenge for anyone. There is a way to add challenge without violating the lore.

Reminds me of http://media.wizards...kersKobolds.pdf

[Naphtali]

level scaling is more of a problem for mmo style of rpgs like DA,  It relies nearly entirely on gear, level player/enemy level. Even though DA1 has been the best in allowing for a little more skilled play, it fundamentally will always have these same problems.

 

RPGs that are built on skill, inventiveness, and ingenuity.make leveling/ perks/ gear more complimentary Mass effect 2 and 3, Witcher 2, Fallout series, Souls, skyrim I believe had an autoscale but still is more based on skill.

 

Games like DA will always have this inherited problem

[Meave]

But you should encounter level 1 kobolds. Because the vast majority if kobolds in the world are level 1.

Having all the level 1 kobolds suddenly vanish because I reached level 5 doesn't make any sense at all.

Also, what's the point of growing more powerful if everything grows powerful with you? We saw how that worked in Oblivion where there was a disincentive to leveling.

 

you wouldn't be asked to go kill some kobolds anymore, other adventurers would do it. It's like killing a fox with a tank...

 

leveling gives you more spells/abilities and renders your equipment useless which force you to get new equipment which make a need for money or higher level resources which keeps you looting things and this whole progress is called RPG. If you don't like it, well... Monsters should scale with party's level otherwise why do they dare call it hard let alone nightmare difficulty. What's hard about one shotting monster and finishing off whole group on enemies in 5 seconds?

[Monster20862]

you wouldn't be asked to go kill some kobolds anymore, other adventurers would do it. It's like killing a fox with a tank...

leveling gives you more spells/abilities and renders your equipment useless which force you to get new equipment which make a need for money or higher level resources which keeps you looting things and this whole progress is called RPG. If you don't like it, well... Monsters should scale with party's level otherwise why do they dare call it hard let alone nightmare difficulty. What's hard about one shotting monster and finishing off whole group on enemies in 5 seconds?

Could you translate that into proper English please?

[Requiemslove]

*Also, what's the point of growing more powerful if everything grows more powerful with you? We saw how that worked in Oblivion where there was a disincentive to levelling. *

 

Oblivion and Bethesda do not do things the same way. Using a Bethesda game as an example nullifies your example. It is better to use DA games and ME games as one instead. One thing a lot of us, myself included wanted from DAI was that enemies come back, repopulate and don't stay dead. The single biggest flaw with the previous DA games revolved around that you have NOTHING to do really after you have completed the quests and gone through each area. Enemies would be dead for good. You didn't even have wildlife repopulating. Even with some quests in DA2 as example, where you got to retread your previous route for a specific reason, and the location just felt dead, with no life whatsoever, not even friendly life, it was just bland and pointless. As for your question as what's the point? Some of us don't WANT to feel dictated to as to when we stop playing a specific inquisitor or playthrough, some of us would like to have the chance to choose when we decide we have done all we can do with a playthrough before we stop.  Without any form of scaling, without any chance to acquire more xp outside of quests and outside of the main story there is only so far you can get, and looking at that mostly from the view of what would make a realistic game world, that should not be the case.