120 réponses à ce sujet

[7twozero]

Had one guy last month who was a real pro, good player with lots of cp, but they didn't know about switching targets, got super mad and said I was wasting missiles. I tried explaining it, guy said I was full of crap, I was like, man, it's a thing, just look it up on the damn forums or even just Google it. He just didn't want to hear it though. Hope he ended up looking it up anyways though. I had even successfully done it that game but the guy hadn't noticed or didn't understand how targets worked or something. I also run into vets who do stuff like put piercing on adas or choke on venom.

[dcal31]

The bigger problem than the reload cancel exploiters is the right-hand advantage cheaters.

GallowsPole, is that you?

[Deerber]

 

we all know that this game offers several exploits which in many cases even aren't bugs or anything.

 

For example reload-cancelling (imagine the claymore without reload cancelling!)

 

For example the tactical cloak which is only used for a split second - just to get the bonus

(no enemy would actually be hindered that much by that to justify this great bonus)

 

...

etc.

 

 

my point is,

the average player would not have discovered all of this without the community.

This makes me believe that Bioware has not intended that for the wider player base.

This makes me believe that those characters were balanced WITHOUT these exploits

which makes me believe that those characters (or guns) consequently are OP ?

 

Or what?

 

 

That would actually be a somewhat interesting and agreeable line of thinking, if only you'd drop calling these things exploits when they are intended game mechanics.

 

Assuming that you did, I will answer that yes, I do agree somewhat. Basically, this game (and pretty much any other) is balanced around the vast majority of users, which means not bsners, but pugs. This means that, when balancing things out, stuff like reload canceling and reload hiding and all that cannot be seriously taken into account, as the vast majority of users doesn't use it. As a result, the guns that benefit the most from these sort of things have a huge advantage in them, which is not taken into account when balancing the game.

 

However, since balancing in this game has been... Well, far from perfect, let's say, the result is that these guns aren't any more OP than a whole lot of other guns, and are actually heaps and bounds less powerful than a couple of abominations that lie around and completely destroy even the very concept of an overall "game balance".

 

It's a bug in the game engine, plain and simple. One no one bothered to fix.

 

No, it's not. It's been confirmed more than once by Bioware devs that it's an intended feature. Period.

[Shampoohorn]

It's a bug in the game engine, plain and simple. One no one bothered to fix.

The Bioware devs, including the one who put it into mass effect have said reload cancelling is WORKING AS INTENDED. But please don't let facts stand in the way of your opinion -- this is the internet, after all.

[Ghost Of N7_SP3CTR3]

Clever use of game mechanics.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Yeah, right.

 

Guns are one of the most liked parts in this game. Imagine how many guns would be vented out of the airlock if there was no reload cancel. Shotguns, sniper rifles, some assault rifles... 'Fixing' that would be like doing Krysae nerf to most of the weapons. Which would significantly reduced player base.

Reload canceling is intended. Prof is in the delay before actual reload, that is how fire rate is balanced.

 

Bioware really botched most of the nerfing. The way they nerfed the Krysae made a lot of people scared to death of guns like the Reegar getting nerfed, resulting in that gun never getting properly balanced and being as fundamentally messed up as the Krysae was before it got nerfed.

 

All the Krysae needed was a tiny explosion radius and a moderate damage reduction, so that it wouldn't be so strong but would still be viable as a sniper rifle.

 

The Carnifex got nerfed incorrectly too. I wouldn't have messed with anything other than its max ammo capacity--a strong gun that doesn't have enough total rounds to be useful as a primary weapon unless you (1) rely almost exclusively on powers or (2) run to the ammo box a lot.

 

To make the Reegar a balanced weapon, it would need more work than the Krysae ever did. I'd increase its range by 25%, encumbrance penalty by 25%, clip size by 50%, and reduce its damage by 50%.

[Heldarion]

I believe the formula biower uses is something like this:

 

- if it's powerful enough to make people waste real moniez on biower points, but not powerful enough to make the 1% on forums cry in self-righteous outrage, then it's balanced

[Deerber]

 

To make the Reegar a balanced weapon, it would need more work than the Krysae ever did. I'd increase its range by 25%, encumbrance penalty by 25%, clip size by 50%, and reduce its damage by 50%.

 

That would still be far from balanced. I'm not even sure it would even be a nerf...

[Deerber]

I believe the formula biower uses is something like this:

 

- if it's powerful enough to make people waste real moniez on biower points, but not powerful enough to make the 1% on forums cry in self-righteous outrage, to drive away enough people who themselves buy biower points, then it's balanced

 

 

Fixed

[Heldarion]

That would still be far from balanced. I'm not even sure it would even be a nerf...

 

As long as there's the Incendiary glitch, Reegar can't be balanced.

[Deerber]

As long as there's the Incendiary glitch, Reegar can't be balanced.

 

Of course it can:

 

[nat in the hat]

Don't be hatin on the Reegar. I would make love to it if I could

[Cyonan]

As long as there's the Incendiary glitch, Reegar can't be balanced.

 

I tried using a Reegar at 50% damage with fixed Incendiary Rounds and it was still hilariously broken.

 

Honestly I'd probably try removing the armor modifier and heavily nerf the base damage by as much as 75%, then increase the shield/barrier modifier to compensate so it's still powerful against those defenses.

 

That way you can't ammo power your way around the armour weakness the gun is supposed to have.

 

Of course, they couldn't alter defense modifiers in a balance change. That'd need a full patch.

[Cryos_Feron]

It's a bug in the game engine, plain and simple. One no one bothered to fix.

I don't think so.
because we have it in dragon age with most weapon types, too.
and NOT in its single player, btw

[Dunmer of Redoran]

That would still be far from balanced. I'm not even sure it would even be a nerf...

 

It doing half damage would mean you'd have to keep fire on a target much longer, which is why it has a larger clip. Also could change it to +75% clip, -75% damage, but that might be too harsh.

 

It's not a good gun for gameplay balance, no matter what.

[BeardyMcGoo]

What I would like to see for the next Mass Effect though is better documentation. I don't see why they shouldn't mention that Biotic Charge grants 50% damage reduction for 4 seconds for example. A lot of people probably don't know about it, even though everybody benefits from it.

 

Judging by how DA:I is, I unfortunately don't see that happening. I also worry it won't be able to even be datamined properly, because from what I gather, it's relatively difficult to datamine the frostbite engine (please correct me if I'm wrong, though). I don't think there are any DA dataminers, just people who test things, because there are actually damage number popups in the game.

[LuckyStarr]

Imagine how many guns would be vented out of the airlock if there was no reload cancel.

Exactly. Stop telling me Raider is any good.

 

Reload canceling is intended. Prof is in the delay before actual reload, that is how fire rate is balanced.

Perhaps, that really is how Bioware intended to balance things, but that's plain stupid.

On a second thought, it makes sense assuming they couldn't / didn't want to fix reload cancelling itself. Perhaps, they had to admit reload cancelling is a thing and balance weapons with this technique in mind. In that case, RC is still a game engine bug, but its impact on gameplay has been negated / balanced.

 

I'm still not going to use Raider, Claymore, Wraith or any of the other 10 terrible guns present in the multiplayer.

[Catastrophy]

A lot of non BSNers are going to figure out about things like Reload Cancelling, Tactical Cloak, or even things like Incendiary Rounds on their own.

 

They may not fully understand the mechanics behind everything and why it happens, but they'll understand that it works and that it's powerful. Hell, this will even happen with some people on the BSN as they just skim past all the math in the threads that get created about mechanics.

 

[...]

I think you're right there - cutting animations short is something you want. Stumbling over the sprint button or firing a power while reloading is likely to happen to every player and finding out that it can cut the reload animation short is just as likely.

When I read about reload cancel it took me a while to grasp the concept until I realized I was doing so already automatically with sprinting and concussive shot.

[Kogia]

Much of the time choosing not to use the Reegar is taking a decision to actually do less dps, which isn't great for 'balance'. I don't dislike it as much as many on here, it's really a fun gun, it just maybe shouldn't be quite such a good gun. I feel sort of the same with the Acolyte, it's just too useful, especially as a sidearm.

 

Having said that, I use both and enjoy them both, but I only use the Acolyte on the Slayer because he likes stunning Phantoms with it before slicing their heads off and I've recently found a way to make the Volus Protector work, but that heavily relies on Reegar spray (I didn't want to Batarian gauntlet).

 

I'm also still a bit rubbish at reload cancelling...

[BeardyMcGoo]

Exactly. Stop telling me Raider is any good.

 

Perhaps, that really is how Bioware intended to balance things, but that's plain stupid.

On a second thought, it makes sense assuming they couldn't / didn't want to fix reload cancelling itself. Perhaps, they had to admit reload cancelling is a thing and balance weapons with this technique in mind. In that case, RC is still a game engine bug, but its impact on gameplay has been negated / balanced.

 

I'm still not going to use Raider, Claymore, Wraith or any of the other 10 terrible guns present in the multiplayer.

The wraith does not require any reload cancelling. And is awesome. Like the raider and claymore.

[LuckyStarr]

The wraith does not require any reload cancelling. And is awesome. Like the raider and claymore.

Hm. Perhaps, I confused Wraith with some other shotgun. Either way, Wraith is underwhelming (used it on AIU before I unlocked Reegar). Definitely on my list of weapons to never use (other than for challenges).

It's amazing how few shotguns are actually good, esp. if you don't consider Reegar which is more broken than good (and I don't even mean with Incendiary ammo, just with AP). I'd say Piranha, GPS, maybe Disciple, maybe Venom (don't have this one) - and that's it.

[BeardyMcGoo]

It's amazing how few shotguns are actually good, esp. if you don't consider Reegar which is more broken than good (and I don't even mean with Incendiary ammo, just with AP). I'd say Piranha, GPS, maybe Disciple, maybe Venom (don't have this one) - and that's it.

wat. no.

the shotgun class has the fewest amount of bad guns in the game.

edit: and that's not including the reegar. that's not a shotgun, it's an abomination.

[Deerber]

It's amazing how few shotguns are actually good, esp.

Ohmyfukingerd, I've gotta try hard not to roll on the floor laughing, here!

By the way, did you know that mechanics like reload cancel and hiding, that is, ways to shorten animations, are present in a shitload of shooter games, and have been since like... Forever?

Again, I'll try to let that sink: reload cancel is *INTENDED*.

[PatrickBateman]

Hm. Perhaps, I confused Wraith with some other shotgun. Either way, Wraith is underwhelming (used it on AIU before I unlocked Reegar). Definitely on my list of weapons to never use (other than for challenges).
It's amazing how few shotguns are actually good, esp. if you don't consider Reegar which is more broken than good (and I don't even mean with Incendiary ammo, just with AP). I'd say Piranha, GPS, maybe Disciple, maybe Venom (don't have this one) - and that's it.

lol, can we stop the obvious troll posts any time soon? Nothing of what you write make any sense at all, it's just so wrong I'm suspecting you are an experienced player just having fun with troll posting on BSN

[NuclearTech76]

The bigger problem than the reload cancel exploiters is the right-hand advantage cheaters.

This. I'm left handed and clearly at a disadvantage.

 

It's a bug in the game engine, plain and simple. One no one bothered to fix.

Nope, it was an intended mechanic put into the game. There was actually some debate about it being put into ME2 and then again into ME3. It wasn't a mistake or anything like that it was known to the devs before both games were released and was put in intentionally. Reload canceling far predates ME3MP.