120 réponses à ce sujet

[LuckyStarr]

lol, can we stop the obvious troll posts any time soon? Nothing of what you write make any sense at all, it's just so wrong I'm suspecting you are an experienced player just having fun with troll posting on BSN

No trolling, and unfortunately almost no experience (look at my manifest if you don't believe me).

I can imagine there might be some tricks or techniques that I don't know about, which make things that seem weak actually perform good (like the weapons or the characters that I can't play with any proficiency). In which case my posts may come across as trolling, I suppose. But no. If I think a weapon is bad I'll call it bad, be it because it really is bad or because I don't know a trick to using it. However, I will NOT call it bad if I suspect that the problem might be with myself and not with the thing. Like I don't call Turian Sentinel bad, even though I have no idea how to score more than 30k points with him on Gold (along with 20 other characters).

 

By the way, did you know that mechanics like reload cancel and hiding, that is, ways to shorten animations, are present in a shitload of shooter games, and have been since like... Forever?
Again, I'll try to let that sink: reload cancel is *INTENDED*.

Yes, I used reload cancelling in Call of Duty games where it's made so convenient to use that everyone do it.

I don't know if it's intended or not, but it doesn't make sense either way. It is illogical to implement it on purpose. RC should be fixed (eradicated), all the balancing should be done by adjusting reload time. If you didn't finish reloading - I'm sorry, your clip is still empty. For it to be full before you even insert it (figuratively speaking) is nonsense.

[NuclearTech76]

It's a bug in the game engine, plain and simple. One no one bothered to fix.

 

 

Yes, I used reload cancelling in Call of Duty games where it's made so convenient to use that everyone do it.

I don't know if it's intended or not, but it doesn't make sense either way. It is illogical to implement it on purpose. RC should be fixed (eradicated), all the balancing should be done by adjusting reload time. If you didn't finish reloading - I'm sorry, your clip is still empty. For it to be full before you even insert it (figuratively speaking) is nonsense.

You see the problem here. You speak as if you know something for a fact whereas you have no idea whether it was intended or not.

 

The problem if you're not good with a particular weapon or character then it must suck, if other players are good with that weapon or character it's because of some exploit.

[LuckyStarr]

I didn't say the word "exploit". RC is not an exploit, clearly. I don't care how you play as long as you're not dragging the team down. If you like a weapon because it can gain high DPS due to a bug - by all means, just don't tell me it's a good weapon because a bug makes it good.

 

The fact that RC is wrong has no relation to whether it's intended or not. Even if RC is written into the specification of the shooting system and was implemented according to specs, it's still a bug according to common sense.

[BeardyMcGoo]

However, I will NOT call it bad if I suspect that the problem might be with myself and not with the thing.

 

You called the claymore, the raider, and the wraith all "terrible" when they are some of the best guns in the game.

[Cryos_Feron]

RC really doesn't feel as a bug or exploit.

Especially after a little time of practice it just feels "natural".

 

However, common sense clearly says that NO real weapon could be reload-cancelled. Therefore it IS a bug??

 

However, BioWare implemented RC in Dragon Age MP, too. So this would indicate it to be intended 

[NuclearTech76]

I didn't say the word "exploit". RC is not an exploit, clearly. I don't care how you play as long as you're not dragging the team down. If you like a weapon because it can gain high DPS due to a bug - by all means, just don't tell me it's a good weapon because a bug makes it good.

 

The fact that RC is wrong has no relation to whether it's intended or not. Even if RC is written into the specification of the shooting system and was implemented according to specs, it's still a bug according to common sense.

Hey guys I suck at something so I'm going to call it a bug and say that it's wrong even though the developers of the game that I am playing have stated that it's an intended mechanic. I'll throw it down as just common sense.  

[LuckyStarr]

You called the claymore, the raider, and the wraith all "terrible" when they are some of the best guns in the game.

 

As I said, I might have confused Wraith with something else. But I clearly remember it having underwhelming DPS on AIU.

I don't get the Claymore hype either. Yes, it has good single-shot damage. But DPM is not huge (I've tried it on Geth Infiltrator).

On a second though, maybe I'm just used to the insane DPS of Reegar on infiltrators - killing Banshees with 2 clips and that kind of crazy stuff.

 

 So this would indicate it to be intended 

But would it?..

 

Hey guys I suck at something so I'm going to call it a bug and say that it's wrong even though the developers of the game that I am playing have stated that it's an intended mechanic. I'll throw it down as just common sense.  

Hey guys, I have no common sense to tell realistic mechanics from BS, so whenever I find that the game is broken in a way that lets me do more damage I'll call it a great mechanic.

[Turian Master Race]

I don't get the Claymore hype either. Yes, it has good single-shot damage. But DPM is not huge (I've tried it on Geth Infiltrator).

I agree with you GI + Claymore is a weaka** loadout. The claymore really needs the best weapon platfrom to shine. BTW, have you tried it on the TSol by any chance?

[NuclearTech76]

RC really doesn't feel as a bug or exploit.

Especially after a little time of practice it just feels "natural".

 

However, common sense clearly says that NO real weapon could be reload-cancelled. Therefore it IS a bug??

 

However, BioWare implemented RC in Dragon Age MP, too. So this would indicate it to be intended 

This was from Christina Norman (BW developer) back in ME2 days.

 

http://forum.bioware...claymore/page-5

 

 

We wouldn't significantly change the gameplay of the claymore (or any weapon) with a patch. That would take something away from players who like weapons the way they are. 

The claymore is still a great weapon for charge heavy vanguards. GPS is also great, and if that let's you take a different weapon on the collector ship, is that a bad thing?



The reload trick is by design. It isn't a glitch. I know because I put it in on purpose! 

[Turian Master Race]

No trolling, and unfortunately almost no experience (look at my manifest if you don't believe me).

 Like I don't call Turian Sentinel bad, even though I have no idea how to score more than 30k points with him on Gold

 

Here is a quick guide:

1, Equip a gun.

2, Point towards the enemy.

3, Pull the trigger.

4, Profit.

[LuckyStarr]

This was from Christina Norman (BW developer) back in ME2 days.

 

http://forum.bioware...claymore/page-5

here we go again. I've already seen this quote before - in a similar discussion I was engaged in on this forum a year ago.

Just because you put it in specs and call it a "feature", it doesn't stop being broken.

I don't even know why you're all so defensive about RC, no one's saying you shouldn't use it if you like to. What are even arguing about?.. The fact that RC is unrealistic?

 

I agree with you GI + Claymore is a weaka** loadout. The claymore really needs the best weapon platfrom to shine. BTW, have you tried it on the TSol by any chance?

No, I don't think I ever put a shotgun on TSol. Either way, I have to actually learn to play TSol in the first place before I can start experimenting with weapons on him.

 

Here is a quick guide:

1, Equip a gun.

2, Point towards the enemy.

3, Pull the trigger.

4, Profit.

You forgot to mention A LOT of dying in between and after.

[Turian Master Race]

You forgot to mention A LOT of dying in between and after.

 

I think we have found your problem.

 

Ask yourself why are you dying so frequently?

[LuckyStarr]

Ask yourself why are you dying so frequently?

I have. But don't know the right answer yet.

[NuclearTech76]

here we go again. I've already seen this quote before - in a similar discussion I was engaged in on this forum a year go.

Just because you put it in specs and call it a "feature", it doesn't stop being broken.

I don't even know why you're all so defensive about RC, no one's saying you shouldn't use it if you like to. What are even arguing about?.. The fact that RC is unrealistic?

 

No, I don't think I ever put a shotgun on TSol. Either way, I have to actually learn to play TSol in the first place before I can start experimenting with weapons on him.

 

You forgot to mention A LOT of dying in between and after.

Not being defensive, simply clarifying that your original statement had no truth to it whatsoever.  Why would you continue to state that it's a bug when you understand well that it is not? 

 

Realism in a game about space frogs, lizards, and bugs with beam weapons and space magic? 

[BeardyMcGoo]

here we go again. I've already seen this quote before - in a similar discussion I was engaged in on this forum a year go.

Just because you put it in specs and call it a "feature", it doesn't stop being broken.

I don't even know why you're all so defensive about RC, no one's saying you shouldn't use it if you like to. What are even arguing about?.. The fact that RC is unrealistic?

In a game/series with space magic, offensive technology you can fire from your wrist, a race of blue tentacle headed strippers, multiple races that require their own biosuits in order to survive. among many other fantastical things that are in the game, and the reload cancel mechanic is what you're going to call out as unrealistic; even though you have used the mechanic in another game that uses guns that actually exist and cannot be reload cancelled in the real world.

[LuckyStarr]

Yeah, yeah, yeah... Reductio ad absurdum is a very powerful demagogic trick, as it can be used to derail absolutely any argument once you realize you can't win it with formal logic and reasoning.

[Turian Master Race]

I have. But don't know the right answer yet.

Then work on it. Really, seriously. You do not have problems with the characters you have problems with staying alive. Observ yourself and observe the other guys. Where do you stand when the wave starts? Where do they stand? How do they move? Where do you die most frequently? Try to avoid those places. Where are the safe spots on the maps? etc.

 

Also, there are some rule of thumbs, for example: avoid large open areas (like LZs and innner 'courtyards'), try to stick to the outer corridors, use soft cover and right hand advantage as much as possible (i.e. try to avoid being in the direct line of sight of the enemy), use hard cover against most boss attacks (nova, lazor, rocket).

 

I think that the easiest to do is to follow experienced players and lear how do they move, just pick an easy charcter (not a volus!!!) and follow them.

[Chealec]

here we go again. I've already seen this quote before - in a similar discussion I was engaged in on this forum a year ago.

Just because you put it in specs and call it a "feature", it doesn't stop being broken.

I don't even know why you're all so defensive about RC, no one's saying you shouldn't use it if you like to. What are even arguing about?.. The fact that RC is unrealistic?

 

There's no such thing as reload cancelling - the gun reloads when it reloads, it's got a timer and everything, if you cancel it too early it doesn't reload. Simple.

 

What there *is* is animation cancelling; yup, all you're doing is cutting an animation short by a few frames, since the animation time doesn't match the reload timer it looks like you're reloading quicker than you should be able to... you're not, it's pretty much the same thing as climbing a ladder whilst swapping out the Cobra.

[Mordokai]

Exactly. Stop telling me Raider is any good.

 

Perhaps, that really is how Bioware intended to balance things, but that's plain stupid.

On a second thought, it makes sense assuming they couldn't / didn't want to fix reload cancelling itself. Perhaps, they had to admit reload cancelling is a thing and balance weapons with this technique in mind. In that case, RC is still a game engine bug, but its impact on gameplay has been negated / balanced.

 

I'm still not going to use Raider, Claymore, Wraith or any of the other 10 terrible guns present in the multiplayer.

 

I wasn't gonna say it, but....

 

Hm. Perhaps, I confused Wraith with some other shotgun. Either way, Wraith is underwhelming (used it on AIU before I unlocked Reegar). Definitely on my list of weapons to never use (other than for challenges).

It's amazing how few shotguns are actually good, esp. if you don't consider Reegar which is more broken than good (and I don't even mean with Incendiary ammo, just with AP). I'd say Piranha, GPS, maybe Disciple, maybe Venom (don't have this one) - and that's it.

 

Yeah...

 

[LuckyStarr]

There's no such thing as reload cancelling - the gun reloads when it reloads, it's got a timer and everything, if you cancel it too early it doesn't reload. Simple.

 

What there *is* is animation cancelling; yup, all you're doing is cutting an animation short by a few frames, since the animation time doesn't match the reload timer it looks like you're reloading quicker than you should be able to... you're not, it's pretty much the same thing as climbing a ladder whilst swapping out the Cobra.

 

So let's say the reload time for a certain weapon is 2 seconds. Then, it's one of the two things:

1. either the animation time is 2.0 sec, but the clip appears as inserted slightly sooner;
2. or the clip is inserted after 2.0 sec after the reloading has begun, but the animation is longer.

Either way, it sounds like a bug to me.

However, I can see how animation could be a tricky thing for the game engine, and it's quite possible that the engine can't simply speed animation up or slow it down. I. e., if reload animation for a weapon with 2.5 s reload was created to be 2.5 seconds long, and then a patch was released making reload time 2.0 sec instead (for balancing purpose), certain game engines may not be able to scale the animation automatically - you'd have to still wait 2.5 s, even if the clip appears inserted at 2.0 s mark. I don't know how Mass Effect's engine handles animations (is it Unreal Engine?). But if case 2 is trued for this engine, I can totally see how they could implement RC to let you actually experience the intended reload time.

In that case, RC is not a bug, but a fix for the animation time scaling bug (or, rather, lack of animation speed scaling). But there's still a bug here somewhere!

 

I know Battlefield 4 (Frostbite) works that way - it can't set the animation to be played at certain speed; the reload animation is played exactly the way it was originally recorded. So they have a problem with adjusting reload times, and I've heard they're going to investigate it. So far reload cancelling is a thing in BF4, although it's not nearly as convenient to use as in CoD, so I never used it there.

Mass Effect 4 is being made with Frostbite, isn't it?

 

 

Spoiler

I'm actually trying to, can't you tell? Yes, need to try harder (no sarcasm). I'm working on it.

[BeardyMcGoo]

Either way, it sounds like a bug to me.

 

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut it's not.

[LuckyStarr]

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut it's not.

Maybe not. Maybe it's a crutch to circumvent the animation duration scaling bug.

[Shampoohorn]

Exactly. Stop telling me Raider is any good.
 
Perhaps, that really is how Bioware intended to balance things, but that's plain stupid.
On a second thought, it makes sense assuming they couldn't / didn't want to fix reload cancelling itself. Perhaps, they had to admit reload cancelling is a thing and balance weapons with this technique in mind. In that case, RC is still a game engine bug, but its impact on gameplay has been negated / balanced.
 
I'm still not going to use Raider, Claymore, Wraith or any of the other 10 terrible guns present in the multiplayer.

The less fact-based an opinion, the harder it seems to be to change.  I've got to hand it to you though, you're really going down swinging. 

 

Reminds me a little bit of this guy:

[Geth Master Race]

L2P issues confirmed.

[LuckyStarr]

The less fact-based an opinion, the harder it seems to be to change.  I've got to hand it to you though, you're really going down swinging. 

True, but that's the best I can do. Fact: I kill enemies faster with Piranha than Raider.