13 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

They drink the blood of a dragon and are changed by it.

[Eliastion]

Apparently it doesn't need to be dragon blood (though more magical processing is required and just your average darkspawn won't do, you need higher quality one).

And Old Gods aren't precisely dragons...

 

Though some paralell definitely exists.

[Taki17]

Well, according to the wiki page of the Joining, the blood they drink during the ceremony is made of darkspawn blood, lyrium and a drop of archdemon blood, so *technically*, there is something dragon-ish in there. Reavers use a form of blood magic to empower themselves, but I think the darkspawn taint the Wardens use is a different kind of magic(?). The taint gives the Wardens darkspawn-like skills like sensing, hearing them and being able to kill archdemons. Reavers on the other hand make their blood more potent with the dragon blood infusion, in order to be used in the form of some kind of blood magic.

[Eliastion]

From what I know, there was some Word of God statement that Archdemon blood isn't really a requirement, there are ways to go around it, though normal darkspawn don't have enough taint for refinement. Still, lack of Archdemon blood doesn't mean that Joining can't be performed, it just takes more work (and, presumably, looking for sufficiently blighty darkspawn, perhaps alphas have enough Taint?)

 

Either way, the OP never said that GW have the same powers and changes as Reavers, just that they technically are Reavers (as in, they fit the general the definition by deriving power from dragon blood ).

Just like, say, Avvarian shamanic rituals that let spirits speak through them technically mean shamans temporarily becoming abominations - this doesn't mean that they sprout tentacles or even that the spirit is there to stay longer than for the duration of ritual (or that it gains any control beyond what the ritual allows), but (as I said) technically they still are a mage possessed by a spirit which fits definition of abomination  

 

Still, as I said, Archdemon blood seems to be the easiest but not the only way, so I don't think we can justifiably call GW Reavers unless they indulge in their habit of drinking strange things even beyond their joining  

Although, one interesting idea would be - if dragon blood is indeed resistant to the Taint, would becoming a Reaver prolong Warden's life? Would being a Reaver increase or - more likely - decrease chances of successful joining? This could be the reason why, reportedly, there are still no qunari Grey Wardens despite some attempts at joining by several Tal-Vashoth - dragon blood interferes with the Joining, with fatal consequences...

[Taki17]

I hardly think dragons would be resistant to the taint - Corypheus was able to corrupt one and use it as a false archdemon

[Eliastion]

I hardly think dragons would be resistant to the taint - Corypheus was able to corrupt one and use it as a false archdemon

 

Resistant doesn't mean immune.

[leighzard]

Just like, say, Avvarian shamanic rituals that let spirits speak through them technically mean shamans temporarily becoming abominations - this doesn't mean that they sprout tentacles or even that the spirit is there to stay longer than for the duration of ritual (or that it gains any control beyond what the ritual allows), but (as I said) technically they still are a mage possessed by a spirit which fits definition of abomination

Abominations are mages possessed by demons who take their power.  Not all spirits are demons.  Wynne wasn't an abomination.  And I think Grey Wardens probably aren't really Reavers.  The taint in archdemon blood likely changes it substantially from that of your average high dragon, which is how the Haven cult got their powers.  Although the process does seem similar, I think.

 

You know really was a Reaver though?  Calenhad.  And apparently that's still kicking around in the Theirin bloodline.

[Eliastion]

Wynne was an abomination, and so was Anders, even before Justice went radical. The thing is that the very distinction between benevolent spirits and demons is somewhat arbitrary and at the very least it's obvious that one can quite easily - and seamlessly - change into the other.

You could perhaps make a distinction based elsewhere, like based on physical changes of the host (recognizing abominations by tentacles rather than by them being possessed) but that wouldn't be very practical for different reasons.

[Laughing_Man]

Good question. The "power of blood" talents in DA:O, seem to indicate that GW can make use of some primitive form of magic, much like Reavers do.

Is the power from the blight only, or is there some dragon-y influence?

 

Wynne was an abomination, and so was Anders, even before Justice went radical. The thing is that the very distinction between benevolent spirits and demons is somewhat arbitrary and at the very least it's obvious that one can quite easily - and seamlessly - change into the other.

You could perhaps make a distinction based elsewhere, like based on physical changes of the host (recognizing abominations by tentacles rather than by them being possessed) but that wouldn't be very practical for different reasons.

 

Calling Wynne an abomination is foolish and ignorant. An "abomination" is a much too weighty of a word to be used as a simple technical term, and with Wynne we never saw anything that might indicate that she was not in control of herself. Hell, we don't even know that the spirit was actually inhabiting her body, she could have been all this time with her - but from the other side - the Fade, the relationship she had with the spirit might be not different than any other spirit healer.

 

Anders obviously didn't have full control of himself, but he's a different story.

[springacres]

Calling Wynne an abomination is foolish and ignorant. An "abomination" is a much too weighty of a word to be used as a simple technical term, and with Wynne we never saw anything that might indicate that she was not in control of herself. Hell, we don't even know that the spirit was actually inhabiting her body, she could have been all this time with her - but from the other side - the Fade, the relationship she had with the spirit might be not different than any other spirit healer.

 

Anders obviously didn't have full control of himself, but he's a different story.

I think the issue here is that there are different shades of "abomination."  Wynne was an "abomination" only in the most literal sense of the word - she was returned to life because the spirit that guided her in the Fade chose to help her more directly, by entering the mortal world to keep her body alive, or so Wynne seems to believe.  So she was an "abomination" in the sense that her body was possessed by a spirit.  However, she retained her sense of self and never lost control of her mind, and that to me says she wasn't truly an abomination.

 

Anders is a different story, of course.

 

Back on topic - I don't think Grey Wardens are reavers.  The Joining doesn't JUST involve drinking archdemon blood - it also requires darkspawn blood, and Alistair mentions that lyrium is also involved somehow.  The only power they seem to gain that is anywhere near what I would call magical is the ability to sense darkspawn and kill archdemons.

[Lady Artifice]

I hardly think dragons would be resistant to the taint - Corypheus was able to corrupt one and use it as a false archdemon

 

In universe:

 

Excerpt of Frederic of Serault's Report:

Within the carcass of the Abyssal High Dragon, we found cysts of hardened flesh. Sister Brigette, a scholar from Nevarra, said she had seen, once or twice, similar nodules in other beasts. To protect itself, the body grew a barrier around a foreign object that could not be removed.

Naturally, of course, we cut into the cyst. The flesh within was blighted. We immediately examined all other cysts found in the other dragon carcasses. Each time, we found the blight. The only conclusion we can draw is that dragons can stem the spread of the blight within their own bodies. They cannot do this indefinitely, as the existence of Corypheus's dragon suggests, but they are more resistant than other creatures.

 

the wiki page:

 

http://dragonage.wik...e_about_Dragons

[thats1evildude]

As I said elsewhere: yeah, like a drop of Archdemon blood, as opposed to the litre or so of dragon's blood you're supposed to gulp down to become a Reaver. Also, the jury is out on whether Archdemons are dragons or things that just look like dragons.

[Aren]

Topic is old but it was interesting,i would say that maybe one single drop is not enough to become a reaver,still the warden if warrior has plenty of possibility to become a reaver,remember all the dragon blood in the temple with the cultists?

I just defile the Urn then reload the save game to have both the spec and the urn,that is legit since i simply headcanons that the warden drink the blood of the high dragon that kolgrim give to defile the ashes,instead to defile them i drinking from that blood.

PLus as far as i'm conerned it is possible to become a reaver in DAA with the tome,here are the instructions there.

pretty much Alistair is not the only one who has dragon blood.

[Hydwn]

I hardly think dragons would be resistant to the taint - Corypheus was able to corrupt one and use it as a false archdemon

 

The dragon he corrupted was the "Red lyrium dragon" because he basically had to corrupt it with red lyrium the way red templars are corrupted.  Since he's one of the original magisters who presumably corrupted the first broodmothers and started the Darkspawn in the first place, the fact that he had to take this roundabout way to corrupt a dragon suggests to me that Frederic of Serrault is right and they are resistant.  

 

As I recall, the Architect corrupted Urthmiel with a modified version of the joining, meaning he made the Old God ingest some distilled version of the blight.  

 

I wonder if it's the dragon-resistance and not the powerful version of the blight that Wardens get from the Archdemon blood?  As others have mentioned, you can join without it, but the chances are less.  Maybe the archdemon blood neutralizes some of the poison of the blight, allowing it to take hold as a joining.