80 réponses à ce sujet

[Arvaarad]

I think the idea was for the inquisitor's experience to mirror that of certain figures from Thedas' history. There's strong evidence that Andraste was pretty pro-elf and possibly pro-mage, but all of that got erased by her followers. The Dread Wolf became Dalish Loki just because he made a mistake.

When there's enough people following you, you can't control that train.

[Ieldra]

I think if you've denied your belief completely then you get a special dialogue option at the end battle with Corypheus to tell him you don't believe in gods. That's one thing I've heard, but haven't tested myself yet since I have two Dalish Inquisitors that believe in their own systems.

Yes, there is that option, and I like it quite a bit. It remains, however, purely personal. Our Inquisitors' beliefs do not affect the Inquisition as an organization at all, nor does it affect how it is perceived - and how you are perceived - by the world at large. The story co-opts our characters to support Andrastianism regardless of what we say or do, and that is extremely annoying. 

[Ieldra]

I think the idea was for the inquisitor's experience to mirror that of certain figures from Thedas' history. There's strong evidence that Andraste was pretty pro-elf and possibly pro-mage, but all of that got erased by her followers. The Dread Wolf became Dalish Loki just because he made a mistake.

When there's enough people following you, you can't control that train.

Quite true, and actually I wouldn't mind quite as much - it is a roleplaying challenge after all - if I wasn't so actively hostile to the moral message of Andrastianism's core myth. However, I am hostile to it, and that means that the game co-opts my character to strengthen an ideology I hate, even though it doesn't force me to support it explicitly. 

 

What I would like to have in the next game is options to act against Andrastianism's memetic dominance - or at least against the memetic dominance of its core myth - and see my actions have an effect. Preferably, a big one.

[Caddius]

I think it'll be interesting to have a game set in the more religiously diverse North.

Hardliner White Andrastians in the Anderfels, the center of Black Andrastianism and its very different view of Andraste and magic, the Qun, the Rivaini Seers and really the melting pot that is Rivain...

I basically agree with what Arvaarad said. While I understand the unease with having to be the leader of an Andrastian organization and not be able to separate yourself from the religious angle, I'm willing to sacrifice that freedom for the theme of the game and how it ties in with both Solas and Andraste's experiences. Faith has always been a big focus of DA, but I kinda hope that DA4 lessens it a bit and focuses on another aspect, just so things don't get too repetitive. They've done a good job of that so far.

[vanek2112]

I think they did a great job with this.  I've done atheist and super religious playthroughs and noticed many differences.  It is realistic to me that you can't control what people believe about you.  People are going to believe what they want to believe regardless of what you say.

[CorniliuS]

Religion like plague slowly devours our world, worse then smallpox and ebola put together. Now its corrupting my video games, they forcing me to be one of those preaching fanatics, yeah shore you can deny to be holly but it doesn’t matter, nobody really pays attention, they even saying “we need you to be! it doesn't matter just lie” Josephine give speeches how religion bring people together, yeah right, all it does it divides people in to groups and then forcing this groups kill each over, because well, everyone thinks they god is true and over peoples are infidels and they need to be killed. They called the game inquisition... INQUSITION!! organization that tortured and killed how many people? O! It's game? You can be good right? What next? Dragon Age Third Reich? you can be good and caring nazi? Kill only bad jews? Wtf are they thinking there? I don't want to be inquisitor, messiah, savior or prophet. Being simple human is good enough for me, because simple humans find cure for diseases, builds space ships, making astonishing science discoveries, not the prophets, messiah or inquisitors.

[Arvaarad]

The story co-opts our characters to support Andrastianism regardless of what we say or do, and that is extremely annoying.

It's supposed to be annoying. It's supposed to get under your skin. Imagine how irritated Fen'Harel must be when the Dalish say he hates wisdom and kindness above all else. Or how irritated Andraste would be to see the murals of Shartan with his ears rounded off.

Despite one person's best intentions, they're still just a single person surrounded by hordes of people spouting hearsay, legends, interpretations, and agendas. They might as well try to stand in the sea and push back the tide.

Even in real life, it's doubtful that many religious figures set out to be religious figures. Their followers were the ones who fashioned them into these larger-than-life characters, often putting their own opinions and words into their mouth when they did so.

[Ieldra]

It's supposed to be annoying. It's supposed to get under your skin. Imagine how irritated Fen'Harel must be when the Dalish say he hates wisdom and kindness above all else. Or how irritated Andraste would be to see the murals of Shartan with his ears rounded off.

Perhaps it is. I don't deny it makes for some interesting roleplaying. Nonetheless, I don't want a repeat of this. I've got an axe to grind with Andrastianism ever since the first 15 seconds of Dragon Age: Origins' intro flickered over my screen, and I would *really* like to follow up on it.    

[Xilizhra]

It's supposed to be annoying. It's supposed to get under your skin. Imagine how irritated Fen'Harel must be when the Dalish say he hates wisdom and kindness above all else. Or how irritated Andraste would be to see the murals of Shartan with his ears rounded off.

Despite one person's best intentions, they're still just a single person surrounded by hordes of people spouting hearsay, legends, interpretations, and agendas. They might as well try to stand in the sea and push back the tide.

Even in real life, it's doubtful that many religious figures set out to be religious figures. Their followers were the ones who fashioned them into these larger-than-life characters, often putting their own opinions and words into their mouth when they did so.

It admittedly does make me wonder what the point is of even playing, if you can't steer yourself.

[Arvaarad]

It admittedly does make me wonder what the point is of even playing, if you can't steer yourself.

It's a journey vs. destination thing. A non-Andrastian might ultimately be considered the Herald of Andraste, but there can still be the nuance that they tried to deny it, that they struggled against it. That's a very different story from someone who embraced it from the start.

I mean, in the long run, nothing matters. The universe experiences heat death, all trace of humanity vanishes, the consequences of all our choices fade from reality as if they had never been made.

So don't look at the long run.

Look at what people tried to do.

[Xilizhra]

It's a journey vs. destination thing. A non-Andrastian might ultimately be considered the Herald of Andraste, but there can still be the nuance that they tried to deny it, that they struggled against it. That's a very different story from someone who embraced it from the start.

I mean, in the long run, nothing matters. The universe experiences heat death, all trace of humanity vanishes, the consequences of all our choices fade from reality as if they had never been made.

So don't look at the long run.

Look at what people tried to do.

The problem of this whole thread, though, is that the story isn't different, at least not enough to be noticeable. And one thing that I think distinguishes Inquisition from, say, 2, is that the story is not about the protagonist; it's about the protagonist's image and the organization as a whole. Ultimately, you can't do very much.

[AresKeith]

I think the most annoying part , is that during those 'Preview' we had . They said we can Decline the Title . But it really doesn't matter if you say it a hundred time you are not the chosen one , the Herald !! everyone think you are ! and no matter what (since there are no action to turn that Title into something else)...you still be called that . So much for many wheel choices.....

Just because you say you aren't the Herald isn't going to stop others from believing it

[ignaciojn]

I'm an atheist myself, but my Inquisitor is a believer. And for me, it makes sense in the context of the game.

In a world with dragons, with magic, with strange creatures and living dead, with the Fade, it's hard not to believe in a higher power.

[wright1978]

Just because you say you aren't the Herald isn't going to stop others from believing it

 

Maybe if we were able to use the execution sword on anybody who says so they might at least be more reticent to voicing such beliefs.

[Ieldra]

I'm an atheist myself, but my Inquisitor is a believer. And for me, it makes sense in the context of the game.

In a world with dragons, with magic, with strange creatures and living dead, with the Fade, it's hard not to believe in a higher power.

I do not see what one has to do with the other. These things and their effects are completely natural on Thedas, and very visible to everyone. The elven gods have also become visible, with questions about their nature attached but even so. To deny them would be delusional. Meanwhile, denying something that doesn't act, produces no visible effects and that you can't perceive in any way is - or should be - pretty much the default position.   

[Arvaarad]

Maybe if we were able to use the execution sword on anybody who says so they might at least be more reticent to voicing such beliefs.

And if you did that, the inquisition would have died in infancy, due to opposition from inside and out. The devs could make a million Game Over screens for all the situations where the inquisition fails and Corypheus wins, due to the inquisitor doing something rash/refusing the role/etc.

But that would be a whole lot of effort for world states that would never carry forward.

[myahele]

I agree I don't want to be another religious figure.

 

But what I do like about it is how so many people will turn your deeds into something alot greater than they really are. How people will turn to cults. In a way, it makes me realize how Andraste and crew experiened when they were just a rag tag group of freedom fighter 

[CathyMe]

Maybe if we were able to use the execution sword on anybody who says so they might at least be more reticent to voicing such beliefs.

I would pay for a DLC like this

What I found annoying isn't that people don't listen when you say you don't believe, is that the inquisitor, no matter what, helps rebuild the chantry ( operations that makes you get involved in the chantry politics after val royaux and going to try and negotiate with the sisters after meeting Giselle comes to mind). That is what really pissed me off....me and my dalish quizzies wanted to burn that parasitic relic called chantry out of existence.

[AresKeith]

Maybe if we were able to use the execution sword on anybody who says so they might at least be more reticent to voicing such beliefs.

 

Good luck dealing with everything else when your Inquisition dies from the inside out from it

 

I would pay for a DLC like this

What I found annoying isn't that people don't listen when you say you don't believe, is that the inquisitor, no matter what, helps rebuild the chantry ( operations that makes you get involved in the chantry politics after val royaux and going to try and negotiate with the sisters after meeting Giselle comes to mind). That is what really pissed me off....me and my dalish quizzies wanted to burn that parasitic relic called chantry out of existence.

 

You honestly thought Bioware would allow that?

[Colonelkillabee]

EMBRACE THE WARMTH OF HER HOLY FLAEM, HEATHEN

 

Haha, lol. I liked it. 10/10 would use the faith of the masses for my own gain again.

[General TSAR]

Can we please be another religious figure in another game BioWare? We need more controversial protagonists!

[Xilizhra]

Can we please be another religious figure in another game BioWare? We need more controversial protagonists!

Would you accept being a magister-to-be as sufficiently controversial?

[Uccio]

Yes! Gimme gimme gimme!

[Ieldra]

I would pay for a DLC like this

What I found annoying isn't that people don't listen when you say you don't believe, is that the inquisitor, no matter what, helps rebuild the chantry ( operations that makes you get involved in the chantry politics after val royaux and going to try and negotiate with the sisters after meeting Giselle comes to mind). That is what really pissed me off....me and my dalish quizzies wanted to burn that parasitic relic called chantry out of existence.

People don't listen and change their minds when it comes to religious matters? How surprising...

 

Seriously, I didn't expect to be able to have such a drastic impact on the Chantry. However, the Inquisition is my organization, and I would have expected an option to give it a less religious aspect.