80 réponses à ce sujet

[CathyMe]

And if you did that, the inquisition would have died in infancy, due to opposition from inside and out. The devs could make a million Game Over screens for all the situations where the inquisition fails and Corypheus wins, due to the inquisitor doing something rash/refusing the role/etc.

But that would be a whole lot of effort for world states that would never carry forward.

 

Well, I think the fact that you are literally the only one who can actually seal the breach can pretty much ensure the protection of the quizzie and the inquisition. As for after the breach is sealed....my quizzie would want to leave the inquisition, but DLC might go against that

Good luck dealing with everything else when your Inquisition dies from the inside out from it

 

 

You honestly thought Bioware would allow that?

Naive, I know....but I heard before the game was release that the inquisitor will have no default allegiances, not even the chantry, and the I kept getting the option to say the chantry is ussles during the talk for divine towards the end, so I kept hopping.

I did enjoy replying at the end to cory, after he says that you two will fight to prove which one is worthy of godhood, that you don't believe in gods.

[Ieldra]

Would you accept being a magister-to-be as sufficiently controversial?

Won't happen. A magister must be a mage. Apart from that, I would like to be one under the same condition: that I am not forced to support the magisterium's prevailiing ideology.

 

I can see that happening, actually, because as opposed to Andrastianism, the magisterium isn't Bioware's holy cow of the setting.

[General TSAR]

Would you accept being a magister-to-be as sufficiently controversial?

Sure, why not? As long as I get to be a normal human.... well not a sparky fingers that's for damn sure.

[Uccio]

People don't listen and change their minds when it comes to religious matters? How surprising...

 

Seriously, I didn't expect to be able to have such a drastic impact on the Chantry. However, the Inquisition is my organization, and I would have expected an option to give it a less religious aspect.

 

It also diminished the character since despite all the bluster the main pc is nothing but a figure head.

[AtreiyaN7]

I thought it was interesting to play someone who wasn't religious, but who had the mantle of savior thrust upon them. This is coming from someone who is atheistic/agnostic in real life (and I take a fairly dim view on religion after being forced to format more nutty religious manuscripts than I can count thanks to my job).

I agree with some others in here that it was meant to show that no matter what you personally believe, the people who follow you need to believe that you are the Herald to keep going and that just because you say "Nope, I'm not the Herald..." it won't necessarily shake their beliefs. I wouldn't mind if we played a quasi-religious figure again, although I don't really foresee a similar situation arising anytime soon.

[AresKeith]

I thought it was interesting to play someone who wasn't religious, but who had the mantle of savior thrust upon them. This is coming from someone who is atheistic/agnostic in real life (and I take a fairly dim view on religion after being forced to format more nutty religious manuscripts than I can count thanks to my job).

I agree with some others in here that it was meant to show that no matter what you personally believe, the people who follow you need to believe that you are the Herald to keep going and that just because you say "Nope, I'm not the Herald..." it won't necessarily shake their beliefs. I wouldn't mind if we played a quasi-religious figure again, although I don't really foresee a similar situation arising anytime soon.

 

That seems to be every other game according to BSN standard

[Carmen_Willow]

Wasn't the whole point? Sentinent beings tends to deify the exceptional sentient beings in their world.  Think about the Buddha. He kept saying he wasn't a god, and they turned him into one anyway. If we can't make them gods, we make them saints, right? Because ordinary people can't possibly do extraordinary things, right?

 

As someone above wrote, people need symbols.

[Arvaarad]

Well, I think the fact that you are literally the only one who can actually seal the breach can pretty much ensure the protection of the quizzie and the inquisition.

I want to live in whatever wonderful part of the world you live in. Where I live, religious fanaticism frequently overrules that kind of common sense.

[CathyMe]

I want to live in whatever wonderful part of the world you live in. Where I live, religious fanaticism frequently overrules that kind of common sense.

Trust me you do not want to live were I live, it's part of the reason why being forced to support the chantry is such a sore spot for me : in my country more money from the state's fund are allocated to building a gigantic gold-plated cathedral than for hospitals or schools (there are more churches than hospitals and schools, and most look deplorable), but I digress. The logic behind that was that people in this game seem perfectly fine with accepting an elf or a qunary or an elf/qunary mage as the herald of andraste.

[Arvaarad]

Trust me you do not want to live were I live, it's part of the reason why being forced to support the chantry is such a sore spot for me : in my country more money from the state's fund are allocated to building a gigantic gold-plated cathedral than for hospitals or schools (there are more churches than hospitals and schools, and most look deplorable), but I digress. The logic behind that was that people in this game seem perfectly fine with accepting an elf or a qunary or an elf/qunary mage as the herald of andraste.

True, but being overtly non-Andrastian could be the last straw for a character like that. Sort of like how in some countries, people will tolerate leaders with various marginalized qualities, but the moment there's even a whiff of doubt cast on their faith (even forgetting the "God bless" in their speeches), people lose their minds.

Ordinary, everyday people are 100% willing to die for their religious beliefs. Where I grew up, that was a perfectly normal attitude. It goes way deeper than prejudices or political opinions. People will routinely vote for leaders based only on the perceived strength of their religious beliefs. Heck, I have family members who still do that.

So for me, it's a lot easier to see the humans of Thedas accepting an elf or qunari leader than an openly non-Andrastian leader.

[Xilizhra]

True, but being overtly non-Andrastian could be the last straw for a character like that. Sort of like how in some countries, people will tolerate leaders with various marginalized qualities, but the moment there's even a whiff of doubt cast on their faith (even forgetting the "God bless" in their speeches), people lose their minds.

Ordinary, everyday people are 100% willing to die for their religious beliefs. Where I grew up, that was a perfectly normal attitude. It goes way deeper than prejudices or political opinions. People will routinely vote for leaders based only on the perceived strength of their religious beliefs. Heck, I have family members who still do that.

So for me, it's a lot easier to see the humans of Thedas accepting an elf or qunari leader than an openly non-Andrastian leader.

Look at the tattoos; it's clear that a Dalish elf is, well, Dalish, and probably not Andrastian.

[Andres Hendrix]

Yes it was annoying; you couldn't even call someone like Josephine out on it, when she tries to have you lie about Justinia giving her life to save yours in the fade, by trying to make you say it was Andraste. Josephine basically wants you to whitewash the actions of the woman, the person who saved your life. Why? Because apparently she feels safer thinking that an anemic warrior's ghost was contradictorily sent down to save the Inquisitor by the sky daddy who 1000 or so years before-after a hissy fit-distinctly left the world of Thedas and his seat in the Fade to who knows where... Josephine likes that nonsense, rather than feeling safer in the fact that a good woman, a person sacrificed herself for another person so that Thedas could have a chance. I would have made Josephine spend at least an hour writing on a black board "I will not whitewash the sacrifices of those who give their lives for this world." After I would have asked her what is more important, people who are willing to sacrifice for one another, or people who leave things up to a deity who if existing no longer cares for his creation (it's right there in the holy writ)?

[ignaciojn]

Meanwhile, denying something that doesn't act, produces no visible effects and that you can't perceive in any way is - or should be - pretty much the default position.   

 

The same argument can be said about the world today, but aprox. 60% of the population is religious.

Besides, Thedas is a world with no modern science, parallel in many aspects to the middle ages. Aside from some minor exceptions, atheism wasn't a "thing" in Earth until the 16th century. And even in 2012, only 13% were atheist.

 

And the concept of religion as a marketing device introduced by your advisors is pretty accurate. Doesn't matter if your Inq. believes in the Maker, it gives the Inquisition power and influence. As Josephine would put it, it's the game.

 

Spoiler

In Dragon Age, you as the Inquisitor, actually meet some god like figures (Solas, Flemeth, Coripheus).

 

That aside, if I ever make a second playthrough (not in the mood to do "Wicked Eyes..." again, and all the rift closing and shard searching) I'll play it as an atheist Inquisitor and see how it goes.

[Delphine]

I thought it was interesting. I didn't enjoy it, and kept denying any godhood any way I could, but the game isn't about you, it's about the importance of symbols to get through tough times, have hope, and carry on. So in the end, my Inquisitor, despite being a complete agnostic/atheist, and telling everyone she was not the Herald or whatever god symbol people were making her to be, she also understood it was not in her hands to decide so, and that some people need to believe, even though she doesn't.

She wants to be a symbol of hope and bright future. People can interpret that however they want, however it makes them feel best.

[Elisaveta]

I like the religious aspect to the game. Given the fact that you can go along for the ride or distance yourself from it is pretty neat. Especially given all those little things that change depending on your choices adds to the overall game for me.

 

Looking at it from the perspective of the DA world, there is plenty of evidence that at least parts of Andrastian faith and the Elven pantheon are based on real gods/things. To dismiss all of that seems like you are missing a large part of what DA is all about. Faith plays a major part in the development of this series.

[TevinterSupremacist]

I like the religious aspect to the game. Given the fact that you can go along for the ride or distance yourself from it is pretty neat. Especially given all those little things that change depending on your choices adds to the overall game for me.

Not enough to make you feel like the Inquisition is your organisation and you're not just a glorified errand boy/girl.

[Andres Hendrix]

The same argument can be said about the world today, but aprox. 60% of the population is religious.

Besides, Thedas is a world with no modern science, parallel in many aspects to the middle ages. Aside from some minor exceptions, atheism wasn't a "thing" in Earth until the 16th century. And even in 2012, only 13% were atheist.

 

And the concept of religion as a marketing device introduced by your advisors is pretty accurate. Doesn't matter if your Inq. believes in the Maker, it gives the Inquisition power and influence. As Josephine would put it, it's the game.

 

Spoiler

In Dragon Age, you as the Inquisitor, actually meet some god like figures (Solas, Flemeth, Coripheus).

 

That aside, if I ever make a second playthrough (not in the mood to do "Wicked Eyes..." again, and all the rift closing and shard searching) I'll play it as an atheist Inquisitor and see how it goes.

Secularism was a "thing" dating back to natural philosophers... Plato's Socrates mentions secularism as a point of difference between his Socratic philosophy, and the philosophy that he studied in his youth (that of the natural philosophers). Lucretius had an Epicurean secular world view, so to did the Good Emperor Marcus Aurelius. Atheism/secularism dates back many years before the renaissance. Moreover, the fastest growing religious trend in North America is non-religon. Non-religion ranks third in both Canada and the USA; I'm not sure about the UK and Europe.

[hobbit of the shire]

I think as Inquisitor you have to sort of put up with the entire Thedas treating you like you're sent from the Maker.  I see Thedas as being like human civilization up until recently..... religion pervaded everything.  You can be devout or not, but generally it's hard to be outright openly atheist.  The whole world revolved around religion.  However, being a person playing such a game in the 21st century, it would be nice to have the option to be able to get more angry.  No, not being an ass (as the 3rd wheel choice often is) but just being angry.  I'd like to, to my companions or when it wouldn't jeopardize the Inquisition, scream that I'm bloody not the Herald of Andraste!!!  I don't believe in the Maker, the Chantry and the mage-oppressing Templars!!!  So stop asking me!

 

But keeping to proper etiquette and not wishing to be accused heretic and have all the devouts rain down upon me, I'd just do a forced smile when some stranger praises me as a holy figure.  Can't change their minds really anyway.  A public denial will just get you more enemies.  Atheist (or just unbelieving that this is your sacred calling) to the core, but restraining oneself from being totally open about it.  I recall Blackwall's convo which asks you about whether you believe you are the Herald.  You can say no, but basically he tells you that's not what the people need.  Even if you aren't, you have to pretend.

[Killdren88]

I'll give you a non religious figure head character. But in exchange I want Cullen to be wiped from all future games. His character dies here. Agreed?

[Korva]

I thought the Herald of Andraste issue had the potential to be one of the best aspects of the main story because it raises so many questions and allows for a lot of angles and growth from both the PC and the NPCs ... but like much of the game, it ended up feeling hollow and rushed, sadly. Even as a RL atheist, I really wish Bioware had emphasized the theme of faith a lot more overall. It plays into so much, in so many different ways, for good or ill -- the player character and how people see her, various companions, politics, leadership, antagonists like Lucius and Corypheus himself. I recall an interview in which Patrick Weakes (I think it was him) said they didn't want to push that sort of thing on the player too much, but IMO that was a severe mistake. If you put a theme like this into a game, you need to believe in it and really run with it, or your product will suffer as a result because it feels half-arsed.

[Legion of 1337]

And this is exactly why it makes no sense to not play as a human Inquisitor.

[Ieldra]

I thought the Herald of Andraste issue had the potential to be one of the best aspects of the main story because it raises so many questions and allows for a lot of angles and growth from both the PC and the NPCs ... but like much of the game, it ended up feeling hollow and rushed, sadly. Even as a RL atheist, I really wish Bioware had emphasized the theme of faith a lot more overall. It plays into so much, in so many different ways, for good or ill -- the player character and how people see her, various companions, politics, leadership, antagonists like Lucius and Corypheus himself. I recall an interview in which Patrick Weakes (I think it was him) said they didn't want to push that sort of thing on the player too much, but IMO that was a severe mistake. If you put a theme like this into a game, you need to believe in it and really run with it, or your product will suffer as a result because it feels half-arsed.

There was certainly the potential for more, and the theme of faith being present and dominant in the story is not what I was criticizing. What was lacking was any impact of your faith-related decisions on the story, except in very minor ways. For instance, as a non-religious Inquisitor, you'd be faced with the decision of using other people's faith to boost your power, or not. That would've been an interesting decision, if it had been one. Instead, this argument is used by the story as an excuse to deny us a decision, so we'll end up strengthening the dominant faith regardless of our actions. 

 

As long as I have options to deal with the matter one way or the other, the theme can be as dominant as it wants. In a game where can influence the future of nations, *some* impact on the dominance of the faith in my own organization isn't too much to expect, is it?

[Al Foley]

There was certainly the potential for more, and the theme of faith being present and dominant in the story is not what I was criticizing. What was lacking was any impact of your faith-related decisions on the story, except in very minor ways. For instance, as a non-religious Inquisitor, you'd be faced with the decision of using other people's faith to boost your power, or not. That would've been an interesting decision, if it had been one. Instead, this argument is used by the story as an excuse to deny us a decision, so we'll end up strengthening the dominant faith regardless of our actions. 

 

As long as I have options to deal with the matter one way or the other, the theme can be as dominant as it wants. In a game where can influence the future of nations, *some* impact on the dominance of the faith in my own organization isn't too much to expect, is it?

Based on the epilogues though the Chantry, while they may have a Divine, could still be left a mess.  

[mat_mark]

My (atheist) Inquisitor said this to mother Giselle: "All of this happened because of fanatics and arguments about the next world. It's time we start believing in this one."

 

Truer words were never spoken...