311 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

Here is your answer.

[KaiserShep]

Part of me has to find some of this a little ironic. Typically, we relish the idea of offing NPC's that annoy the hell out of us, or just previously tried to kill our PC (Zevran being somewhat of an exception), but it becomes a serious problem if a companion takes it upon herself to do it instead.

 

Obviously, bonus points are added for not allowing the PC to go through the entire tree of dialogue XD

[Jaison1986]

People say it's unfair when Sera get's more hate when other companions are not too different. But I see on this perspective. Most of the controversial companions are well aware of their faults and most of the times they try to redeem themselves for what they have done. They accept their criticism because they know what they have done wrong. But Sera never does that, she is unapologetic and never accepts criticism, calling you stupid for not seeing the world the same way she does. Never takes any kind of responsability for what she does and shove all blame on others. How is that not frustrating?

[LeBurns]

I get the impression Blackwall isn't discussed so much because not many people would defend what he did.  Including Blackwall himself.

The argument you can have with Blackwall is whether redemption is possible for him, but few would say he was right.

 

Well, also he's a lot less annoying.

 

The difference with him and this discussion is what you see Blackwall doing when you first meet him and can ask him to join.  At that point, it makes a lot more sense to ask him to join than Sera.

[Shechinah]

(to KaiserShep) To some it is because you typically have the role of leader in these games and so when a companion kills someone without you even having the chance to protest, it feels like they are acting out of order (if that is the right phrase to use).

[KaiserShep]

(to KaiserShep) To some it is because you typically have the role of leader in these games and so when a companion kills someone without you even having the chance to protest, it feels like they are acting out of order (if that is the right phrase to use).

 

I know. It's a big part of what I find amusing. I imagine people felt the same if they told Leliana not to kill that Chantry sister, but failed to stop her from killing Butler earlier in the game.

[Shechinah]

(to KaiserShep) I'm still surprised I ended up softening Leliana considering I only learned that it could happen and what you needed to do after I finished the game. I think it may also be because despite holding a high position of authority, you can never really punish the people who you feel sidestepped your authority. At least, I saw a lot of comments disliking what happened on Sera's quest and with the noble because she did that.

[The Loyal Nub]

People say it's unfair when Sera get's more hate when other companions are not too different. But I see on this perspective. Most of the controversial companions are well aware of their faults and most of the times they try to redeem themselves for what they have done. They accept their criticism because they know what they have done wrong. But Sera never does that, she is unapologetic and never accepts criticism, calling you stupid for not seeing the world the same way she does. Never takes any kind of responsability for what she does and shove all blame on others. How is that not frustrating?

 

After Leliana kills the Chantry sister, even when you have told her not to, does she apologize to you? No. She justifies her actions with the most remorseless real-politik. If she becomes Divine at the games end, and has killed the sister, you will be told that she kills many in the Chantry during the game's narrative epilogue. I was frustrated by this. Maybe you were not?

[KaiserShep]

I didn't know she did that on her own before reading about it here. I usually just put my nobility perk dialogue to good use, if I didn't just give her a nod to have at him. It's kind of strange though that we couldn't kill him ourselves. My City Elf Warden would hang his head in shame if someone else got to do the murder knifing.

[Zobert]

She's not an insane murderer.

 

She sorta is with the

Spoiler

what

business. I've been thinking about this stuff a lot lately after a conversation with a friend where we discussed how life-like and immersive these games are--you are literally in another world playing them.

 

People have made them pseudo real (if you think "we" haven't go to a fan thread and criticize the character--people go apeshit) so if that's the case, why aren't our moral choices a reflection of us in the game?

 

Are we being desensitized to future violence in this world?  Because we cannot be arrested for going HAM on people in a game does not mean we didn't make a conscious choice.

 

We didn't give that man the option to leave, she just

Spoiler

shoots him

.

 

If a cop came upon a burglar and just shot him we'd think the guy was a psychopath.

[Zobert]

After Leliana kills the Chantry sister, even when you have told her not to, does she apologize to you? No. She justifies her actions with the most remorseless real-politik. If she becomes Divine at the games end, and has killed the sister, you will be told that she kills many in the Chantry during the game's narrative epilogue. I was frustrated by this. Maybe you were not?

 

I think Leliana is a psycho and wished that I had the option to send her away somewhere.  I had to soften her up because she's batshit crazy.

[Jaison1986]

After Leliana kills the Chantry sister, even when you have told her not to, does she apologize to you? No. She justifies her actions with the most remorseless real-politik. If she becomes Divine at the games end, and has killed the sister, you will be told that she kills many in the Chantry during the game's narrative epilogue. I was frustrated by this. Maybe you were not?

 

I wasn't, for she didn't killed her when I told her to stop. There was nothing to be frustrated about.

[WildOrchid]

(to The Loyal Nub) Blackwall has had a lot of criticism directed towards him for what he did, it's been discussed in a lot of threads if I recall correctly. Characters get critically viewed all the time regardless of who they are or what they've done.  

 

Compared to Sera, no, not really. Sera got like 5 hate threads with 50+ pages of useless "graaaargh i hate her ougk" with some fair, calm criticism in some posts.

 

Even on tumblr or youtube, Sera is generally more disliked than Blackwall which is headscratching at most. Usually the characters who've done worse than Sera somehow get a pass*.

 

 

*meaning, they get less criticized than Sera.

[FadelessRipley]

 

I was thinking after I posted this that a stronger case I could have made was using Leliana instead of Blackwall. Leliana will slit a Chantry sister's throat from ear to ear even if you tell her not to do it (and depending on what you've told her earlier) and her justifications for it afterwards are stomach churning at best. Sera's actions made sense given the context and what led up to them. I've had a harder time figuring a justification for what Leliana does especially as it warns you as to how she might turn out as Divine.

 

Leliana's actions are the culmination of a slippery slope that she's been on while doing Justinia's dirty work for years. Marjolaine's pet might have killed Natalie, but despite being ruthless when needed these last few years, the kind and compassionate "true" Leliana we met in Origins is still supposed to be there underneath. Natalie was a former friend, a "sister" in Leliana's own words - unarmed, and no real threat to Leliana or the Inquisitor. People can argue that she would, but the Leliana I know and love would have simply scared the s**t out of Natalie and sent her packing. Sera overreacted with the noble IMO, but you can see where she was coming from even if you disapprove (hello, Anders?) and in context, I don't think she's any "worse" than other characters in that regard.

 

People say it's unfair when Sera get's more hate when other companions are not too different. But I see on this perspective. Most of the controversial companions are well aware of their faults and most of the times they try to redeem themselves for what they have done. They accept their criticism because they know what they have done wrong. But Sera never does that, she is unapologetic and never accepts criticism, calling you stupid for not seeing the world the same way she does. Never takes any kind of responsability for what she does and shove all blame on others. How is that not frustrating?

 

It is frustrating, of course. Sera is incredibly childish. That doesn't necessarily mean she's a bad character - in my opinion, characters with bad traits can be just as interesting. In my opinion, if you stick with her and scratch the surface, there is a better person there - to me she's like a scared, angry little girl in ways. 

 

One of OPs points is that using a strict RP mindset, based on Sera's initial scene, what reason is there to trust and recruit her. IMO it's the one thing that works against her most. I'd ask the Sera fans the serious question: Do you see any issues with the intro scene? Should it have been done differently?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Compared to Sera, no, not really. Sera got like 5 hate threads with 50+ pages of useless "graaaargh i hate her ougk" with some fair, calm criticism in some posts.

 

Even on tumblr or youtube, Sera is generally more disliked than Blackwall which is headscratching at most. Usually the characters who've done worse than Sera somehow get a pass*.

 

 

*meaning, they get less criticized than Sera.

How it is "headscatching" sera is annoying , childish and dense so no wonder players dislike her more than blackwall that just have dark past and tries to atone...

[SgtSteel91]

The way I justify it is that she brings her connections to the Friends of Red Jenny. It wasn't Leliana or her spies who found out about that Orlesian Mage out to get me, it was some servants passing information about the location and the path to take to get him. Sera tries to explain this to you, in her special way. So having the 'common people' passing information to the Inquisition, often overlooked by the 'big people,' will be helpful.

[WildOrchid]

How it is "headscatching" sera is annoying , childish and dense so no wonder players dislike her more than blackwall that just have dark past and tries to atone...

 

Lol

[Ryzaki]

Eh I don't? She's completely optional and I don't feel like I miss anything by her absence other than annoyance. So I just don't recruit her *shrug*

[Qun00]

Just because Sera approves of you and your actions, doesn't mean you approve of Sera.  There's no option to go "Inquisitor Greatly Disapproves" on her.
 
Options to boot people out really shouldn't depend on approval.  Though I agree it's odd that Sera gets treated differently.

You actually can.

In the cutscenes that follow each of Sera's super duper controversial moments, you can criticise her during the whole conversation.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lol

And what you will tell me now that sera is intelligent or mature?

[The Loyal Nub]

 

 

 

One of OPs points is that using a strict RP mindset, based on Sera's initial scene, what reason is there to trust and recruit her. IMO it's the one thing that works against her most. I'd ask the Sera fans the serious question: Do you see any issues with the intro scene? Should it have been done differently?

 

 

Well let's see: first, she does tip you to an assassin and helps you take him and his henchmen out. Secondly, in the process she reveals herself to be pretty good with a bow. I don't see any reason not to take her up on her offer. It's just as credible an introduction as Viv's is or Cole suddenly appearing out of the blue and wanting "to help."

[Ryzaki]

Well let's see: first, she does tip you to an assassin and helps you take him and his henchmen out. Secondly, in the process she reveals herself to be pretty good with a bow. I don't see any reason not to take her up on her offer. It's just as credible an introduction as Viv's is or Cole suddenly appearing out of the blue and wanting "to help."

 

???

 

Uh no it's not. For one Cole isn't the reason you're currently under attack.

 

I'll give you Vivi but Cole? Hell no.

 

Actually on the templar path Cole for me is the most reasonable optional companion to take.

[FadelessRipley]

Well let's see: first, she does tip you to an assassin and helps you take him and his henchmen out. Secondly, in the process she reveals herself to be pretty good with a bow. I don't see any reason not to take her up on her offer. It's just as credible an introduction as Viv's is or Cole suddenly appearing out of the blue and wanting "to help."

Ok, that's true. My main issue was with the dialogue. I get that Sera is supposed to be quirky and a bit nuts (not necessarily in the bad way), but I felt her dialogue was, well, completely daft. I hadn't a clue what she was on about. It felt to me that the writing sort of threw the eccentricity in your face a bit too full force, leaving me scratching my head. I wasn't sure what the heck was going on tbh. Now to be fair, it was in the middle of an ambush, so not as...I don't know...certain or relaxed an environment as the other companions? This isn't a reason to judge the character as a whole, but in terms of what OP was talking about - if I were truly in that moment, I'd possibly have backed away slowly. I know my Quizzy was tempted. But like I said, she woofed at her, and she's a bit of a bighead when it comes to the ladies.

[The Loyal Nub]

It is frustrating, of course. Sera is incredibly childish. That doesn't necessarily mean she's a bad character - in my opinion, characters with bad traits can be just as interesting. In my opinion, if you stick with her and scratch the surface, there is a better person there - to me she's like a scared, angry little girl in ways. 

 

 

 

 

If you don't give up on Sera right away there are clues to her background (Denerim/orphanage) and her deep terror of magic (which is endearing and hysterical in different scenes).
 

She's pretty much a early 20's brat who hasn't matured yet. But she's not awful or evil for being a brat nor is she particularly stupid. I tend to think of her more as needing a bit more polish that age and experience will provide.

 

Everything you say here is right and you hit on something else that needs mentioning: characters with bad traits can be interesting. They add flavor to the game. Viv annoys me no end but hey that just adds that bit of spice that I want to smack her after she moves my furniture (too bad you can't move hers out to the drawbridge).

[The Loyal Nub]

 

Actually on the templar path Cole for me is the most reasonable optional companion to take.

 

That's if you take the templar path.