36 réponses à ce sujet

[Julmor]

Made a rerun of my old "Main playthrough". The main difference I made was conscripting the mages instead of allying with them. I constantly supported "Reform" and cassandra. But in the end I got Vivienne as divine. Im struggling to see why it happened. It could be because I constantly had vivienne in my party, while i only used cassandra a handful of times (so i could get new party banter with other characters).

 

But afterwards i started thinking. Is Cassandra actually better for the job than Vivienne? The epilogue seems to suggest that Vivienne actually made things alot better for mages while at the same time keeping the templars on a tight leash. Shes also obviously a much better politician than Cassandra (and Leliana imo).

Having a mage as divine is also a pretty big step for mages in general.

 

Im really quite torn about this.

[LightningPoodle]

Cassandra but Vivienne is also good. So is Leliana. I don't understand why people are against certain people becoming Divine. At the end of the day, the exact same thing will come off it.

[katerinafm]

I think conscripting the mages pretty much forces Vivienne as Divine. I conscripted the mages with my noble human character and even though it looked like Cassandra was going to become Divine, Vivienne surprised me in the end.

 

Vivienne seems to know what's up, but she might be a bit too ruthless and traditional in her ways in that she doesn't change the Circle and templars at all (despite giving mages more responsibility). Cassandra appears to most 'middle ground' option you can pick, because while she supports and Chantry, she sees its faults and still tries to make changes for the better while still keeping the Circles. So of the two, I'd pick Cassandra.

[Julmor]

Its kinda frustrating really. The magealliance with Cassandras as divine seems kinda "gloomy" to say the least. Plus i HATE Fiona. I felt that conscripting the mages would stop Fiona from screwing things up in the future while making Cassandra a stronger ruler. Guess I was wrong *sigh*.

I might have to give it another try with disbandning the templars instead. I just dont know if I got it in me atm after so many INquisition runs.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Cassandra for the win. 

[Qun00]

Cassandra is a truer middle ground, improving the system instead of destroying it.

The Circles remain but she still respects the mages right to actually choose how and where they want to live.

However, Vivienne drags them into the system by force. No real empathy, just a plain control freak.

If you're concerned about what's best for people in general, go with Cass.

 
But afterwards i started thinking. Is Cassandra actually better for the job than Vivienne? The epilogue seems to suggest that Vivienne actually made things alot better for mages while at the same time keeping the templars on a tight leash. Shes also obviously a much better politician than Cassandra (and Leliana imo).
Having a mage as divine is also a pretty big step for mages in general.
 
Im really quite torn about this.

You don't sound torn at all.

Why are you asking us?

[Potato Cat]

This should probably explain why you got Divine Viv rather than Divine Cass.

http://dragonage.wik...Divine_election

 

As you can see, conscripting the mages gives Vivienne a good lead over the other candidates and it can be hard to overcome this unless you put Briala in power.

 

Personally, Vivienne is my favourite candidate. For me, she makes the best Divine and I agree with her that people need to stop fearing mages before real change can come and what she does really makes an environment where acceptance can grow.

[Mentxi]

Vivienne is a good option if you choose the mages but you really don't want them to be free (otherwirse, Leliana) . Cass is a good option when you choose the templars.

[Julmor]

Vivienne is a good option if you choose the mages but you really don't want them to be free (otherwirse, Leliana) . Cass is a good option when you choose the templars.

 

Ah typical. Guess I just have to do it again as a templar then.

[congokong]

The choice depends partially on how much meta-gaming you're doing based on those slideshows at the game's end. Note: I wouldn't trust them too much after the lies that were DA:O's/Awakening's.

 

Leliana is a nutter who doesn't really know who she is and is very impressionable. That's why she has a hardening option in two games. Her views on equality, while admirable, are like "give peace a chance" and similar idealistic dogma that provide no method of implementation.

 

Vivienne wants to return things to the status-quo. Considering what the status-quo led to, there should be some change.

 

That's where Cassandra comes in. "The circle has its place but it needs reform."  Her views reflect DA:I Cullen's who I also agree with. Mages obviously need guidance/education to protect themselves and others. The question is how much restriction is necessary, and that depends on the individual. Absolutes are easier to implement but that can leave you with mage-prisons or Leliana's "free them all" options. I look at what happened with Connor and I know the latter isn't a true option, and DA:I's backstory voids the former. Both extremes at times would have to be necessary with some middle-ground.

[Rekkampum]

I think conscripting the mages pretty much forces Vivienne as Divine. I conscripted the mages with my noble human character and even though it looked like Cassandra was going to become Divine, Vivienne surprised me in the end.

 

Vivienne seems to know what's up, but she might be a bit too ruthless and traditional in her ways in that she doesn't change the Circle and templars at all (despite giving mages more responsibility). Cassandra appears to most 'middle ground' option you can pick, because while she supports and Chantry, she sees its faults and still tries to make changes for the better while still keeping the Circles. So of the two, I'd pick Cassandra.

 

If you wanna see ruthless, I'll refer you to a hardened Leliana becoming Divine: "Her response is as swift as it is deadly; unity is maintained, but blood runs through the halls of the Grand Cathedral."

 

[Lavaeolus]

Vivienne wants to return things to the status-quo. Considering what the status-quo led to, there should be some change.

I think it's important to note that no Divine is entirely status quo. Vivienne restores the Circle of Magi, but leashes the templars and "Mages rise quickly in the new Circle, having more freedom and responsibility then ever before - even if all true power lies with her."

Part of the problem is Cassandra's actual actions are really vague. Something about reform, but what that is is never specified. Oddly, Vivienne simply having some sort of statement like Mages are freer within the Circles makes her seem like she's changed more.

[d-boy15]

Both are quite identical in term of their reform.

They restore templar order and circle, give mages more freedom but within circle.

The different is Cass seem to be accepted easily while Viv is seem to be more capable of politic but not so popular.

[congokong]

I think it's important to note that no Divine is entirely status quo. Vivienne restores the Circle of Magi, but leashes the templars and "Mages rise quickly in the new Circle, having more freedom and responsibility then ever before - even if all true power lies with her."

Part of the problem is Cassandra's actual actions are really vague. Something about reform, but what that is is never specified. Oddly, Vivienne simply having some sort of statement like Mages are freer within the Circles makes her seem like she's changed more.

Did you not read the first sentence of my post?

 

The choice depends partially on how much meta-gaming you're doing based on those slideshows at the game's end. Note: I wouldn't trust them too much after the lies that were DA:O's/Awakening's.

 

[Lavaeolus]

Even before the end, you can say things like "We need mages in the Chantry" and she'll approve, and of course simply voting for a mage to be Divine is a massive punch to the status quo. I am unaware, however, how much of that dialogue is dependent on being a mage (my Qunari just wanted mages back to normal, my Dalish was just generally insulting concerning the Circle and the Chantry, and I'm not so great at remembering roads untaken).

Also, even with the note that the choice depends on how much metagaming, you did not state whether your conclusion that Vivienne was for the status quo was made with or without said metagaming. The lesson here is, human communication sucks and go mind-meld with people I guess.

[congokong]

Even before the end, you can say things like "We need mages in the Chantry" and she'll approve, and of course simply voting for a mage to be Divine is a massive punch to the status quo. I am unaware, however, how much of that dialogue is dependent on being a mage (my Qunari just wanted mages back to normal, my Dalish was just generally insulting concerning the Circle and the Chantry, and I'm not so great at remembering roads untaken).

Also, even with the note that the choice depends on how much metagaming, you did not state whether your conclusion that Vivienne was for the status quo was made with or without said metagaming. The lesson here is, human communication sucks and go mind-meld with people I guess.

The status-quo summation is without meta-gaming; specifically when she consults an inquisitor she's friends with over the next divine. That's when you ask her what she feels the best divine would do with their power. She makes no mention of reform, but rather restoration of what was.

[Lavaeolus]

Yeah, and she's definitely the most status quo of all the Divines, but if you've got to that point with Viv you probably know she's a political maneuvering person who's not going to just be subservient to the templars herself, and has already spoken about how she wants mages more involved with the Chantry (or possibly not, this will depend on your personal dialogue choices). Most of what she says also focuses on the immediate: bring back the institutions, crush all opposition with an iron fist, then we can address voices of dissent.

If you're looking for general reform, Cassandra's probably the best way to go without metagaming, but you have enough indication to know that Vivienne's not going to put things back perfectly. Simply having a mage Divine, if nothing else, would still shake things up to the core.

The whole "things need to change -- look where things got us now" argument still flies, but it's worth noting it's a question of how much reform is necessary. Vivienne's concessions are relatively minor, instead opting to quash rebellion in order to establish her Circles.

[The Baconer]

For each Chantry, a black Divine ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Boost32]

I wanted the status quo back as almost it was before the war, so Divine Viviennewas my choice. She made the changes I wanted in her epilogue, so I was very content with my choice.

 

For each Chantry, a black Divine ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Andres Hendrix]

None of the above...

[Rekkampum]

For each Chantry, a black Divine ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

i c wat u deed thar

[themageguy]

I like both options.

My elf mage will support Cassandra and reformation.

My loyalist knight enchanter supports Vivienne.

[Incantrix]

I put it like this...

"Only a mage would understand what a mage needs"

Hence why I chose Vivienne.

Mundanes who don't know the first thing about magic shouldn't be put into a place of power that commands it. In my opinion, all divines should have been mages.

Vivienne is the epitome of circle magery. She knows just how capable a circle mage is and with her on the throne, she's the best chance of mages being integrated into society during her reign.

Integration is not forced (leliana). It must be done with a calculating and yet delicate hand. Vivienne has both things in check.
---------------

I even supported the Templars just because I felt that between Vivienne and the inquisition "leaning in" on them, they wouldn't mess up again.

[KaiserShep]

I'm vehemently against maintaining the status quo, so I had to avoid getting the uppity sorceress on the sunburst throne.