217 réponses à ce sujet

[Raiil]

 

Not rly unless we speak about time until haven destruction ,after that you are leader of the inquisition and person that people follow before that you were pretty much figurehead.

 

Nope while they run it whole inquisition responds to the inquisitor.

 

You have ultimate job security so does solas and morrigan if she used well not only you have only mean to save the day but also you are seen as messiah in the end people in inquisition respond and are loyal to herald that they are following.

 

Inquisition would last without them they aren't irreplaceable unless they are only people that are diplomats ,soldiers or spies what is doubtful.

 

 

No, you don't run the entire Inquisition. This is repeatedly shown. You don't personally command the troops, you don't handle the vast majority of diplomatic matters, and you don't deal with most of Leliana's work. She's the one who gathers intel, Cullen tells the troops where to go in matters that don't concern you, and Josephine fields various orders and people that you never interact with. The Inquisition is not a dictatorship. You, the Inquisitor, are charged with dealing with Rift related issues. All four leaders confer on a lot of matters, but not all.

 

Solas has the same job security that you do- you have an indispensable gift. That doesn't mean you have to lead crap. As for Morrigan, she is working with the Inquisition, not for it. She chooses her jobs, not you.

 

Could you replace them? Theoretically. Could you replace them with people who A) have their skills, have their connections and C) are willing to even work with you? I'm waiting for your list of viable candidates to take their job. In the meantime, remember that they support you, you don't support them. As I said, the game presumes you're intelligent enough not to shoot yourself in the foot in the matter, and hence they go no where.

[DontWakeTheBear]

Eee yes you are after all you are head and main leader of inquisition when leliana , cullen and josephine handle certain branches of the inquisition you are leader of that all and they are your subordinates so they could be removed.

In theory you're right, and it's ​technically possible to remove them, it WOULD (no maybe about it) cripple the Inquisition for the crisis at hand. Leliana is your spymaster, she's the only one in contact with all those agents you have scattered around Thedas and she's the only one who knows what's going on, remove her and suddenly you're blind. Cullen's your general, he's well liked and respected by the men under his command, removing him would destroy the moral of your troops and leave you without a capable leader in a wartime situation. Josephine is the focal point of your alliances and is constantly working to make sure everything's running smoothly, I have a feeling alot of things would simply fall apart without her. There's a reason the Divine entrusted the Inquisition to Leliana and Cassandra, and there's a reason that they entrusted part of it to Cullen and Josephine. In the long term you could probably replace each person with someone else, but for the time period that the game takes place? Doing so would be such a ridiculous level of madness that it's no wonder there's no option for it.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I meant the ability to start a new Inquisition - the fact Roderick wasn't willing to accept Justinia's writ posthumously and the Chantry is currently in chaos is why there was opposition. 

 

"Every of them can be replaced as i said i doubt they are only people in thedas that have knowledge in that matters."

 

No character is irreplaceable. But in the context of the characters we have and know of, who could have replaced any of them? It's constrained by story as much as anything. Let's say you could sack Leliana, or even kill her as I'm sure many wanted to. Who would replace her? Bringing some random master spymaster that we've never even met wouldn't be a good narrative fit, IMO. What if you sacked all three? You'd have three new advisors that we have no connection to and that haven't been established, but so-and-so somewhere says they're an excellent spymaster/tactical genius/amazing diplomat! That just wouldn't work for the story. 

 

Well but ability to start inquisition have nothing to do here because as i said Cassandra and Leliana may have started it but inquisitor took position of the leader in it and in the end people follow inquisitor in fact inquisitor is only reason why inquisition came so far because whole messiah reputation.If i messed up things you were saying sorry.

 

Not true inquisitor , solas and morrigan are irreplaceable for simple reason they have abilities and/or knowledge that no one in thedas have.You can't replace inquisitor because as only person in thedas he have anchor and later is announced messiah , then you can't replace solas as he as only one in thedas have knowledge about thing is going on , and then we have morrigan that have knowledge about aspects of magic that pretty much very few have at best. 

 

While diplomat , soldier and spy aren't unique and there are plenty people who have skills in that department .

[Raiil]

 

 

While diplomat , soldier and spy aren't unique and there are plenty people who have skills in that department .

 

 

Please grace us with the names of people who have Leliana, Cullen and Josephine's background, skills, and experience who are willing to take on their roles. I'll wait.

[Boost32]

Please grace us with the names of people who have Leliana, Cullen and Josephine's background, skills, and experience who are willing to take on their roles. I'll wait.

There is Charter, Ser Barris and Albernach/Movran the Under pair.

[TheKomandorShepard]

In theory you're right, and it's ​technically possible to remove them, it WOULD (no maybe about it) cripple the Inquisition for the crisis at hand. Leliana is your spymaster, she's the only one in contact with all those agents you have scattered around Thedas and she's the only one who knows what's going on, remove her and suddenly you're blind. Cullen's your general, he's well liked and respected by the men under his command, removing him would destroy the moral of your troops and leave you without a capable leader in a wartime situation. Josephine is the focal point of your alliances and is constantly working to make sure everything's running smoothly, I have a feeling alot of things would simply fall apart without her. There's a reason the Divine entrusted the Inquisition to Leliana and Cassandra, and there's a reason that they entrusted part of it to Cullen and Josephine. In the long term you could probably replace each person with someone else, but for the time period that the game takes place? Doing so would be such a ridiculous level of madness that it's no wonder there's no option for it.

Those are inquisition agents and work for inquistion they still will work for inquisition even if spymaster is gone at worst it would temporarily cause some mess in that department.weakening morale isn't something that can't be fixed and well as i said i have hard time seeing that cullen is only soldier that can handle leadership.About josephine nope of course assuming you hired competent diplomat on her place otherwise yes.Game don't tell us time frame save for six months thing.

 

 

Please grace us with the names of people who have Leliana, Cullen and Josephine's background, skills, and experience who are willing to take on their roles. I'll wait.

Why do i have give names you don't need to be genius to know that leliana , cullen and josephine professions aren't unique there is plenty people like leliana even just in orlais i can point even briala , then we have cullen who is soldier hardly unique there is plenty soldiers in thedas hell i could point even loghain.We know Josephine isn't only diplomat and inquisition have diplomats a lot of them and a lot of them outside inquisition.

 

[DontWakeTheBear]

Those are inquisition agents and work for inquistion they still will work for inquisition even if spymaster is gone at worst it would temporarily cause some mess in that department.weakening morale isn't something that can't be fixed and well as i said i have hard time seeing that cullen is only soldier that can handle leadership.About josephine nope of course assuming if you hired competent diplomat on her place otherwise yes.Game don't tell us time frame save for six months thing.

 

 

Many of Leliana's agents are HER agents. People that have worked with her since her time with the Divine, they know, trust, and respect her not whatever random person you decide to replace her with. There are also multiple agents undercover or out of touch doing a variety of important missions, do you expect the lady you just fired to go over every aspect of her job with her replacement? A woman who, if I get this this right, you're firing because of instability issues? 

 

As for Cullen, many of the senior officer's were former Templar's or people that he recruited, now they may just calmly accept that their well respected leader is being replaced for some reason known only to the Inquisitor, but I don't think it'll go over that well.

 

Josephine: It doesn't matter if her replacement is competent or not, the total number of things she does for the Inquisition is staggering, and it would take someone alot more than "competent" to be able to do anywhere near the quality of her work.

 

The timeframe I talked about was over years these people could be replaced, but it would have to be AFTER the crisis. There's a reason that power rarely changes hands during crisis's, it tends to lead in gaps of knowledge and coordination and that gap get's people killed.

[Raiil]

 

 

Why do i have give names you don't need to be genius to know that leliana , cullen and josephine professions aren't unique there is plenty people like leliana even just in orlais i can point even briala , then we have cullen who is soldier hardly unique there is plenty soldiers in thedas hell i could point even loghain.We know Josephine isn't only diplomat and inquisition have diplomats a lot of them and a lot of them outside inquisition.

 

 

I'm asking for names because those are roles that need to be filled and the Inquisitor can't. I am asking for people who can be trusted to reliably fill the jobs they do.

 

I'm asking for a spymaster whose own network rivals Leliana. You keep throwing around that the spy network is the 'property' of the Inquisition but only Leliana and maybe a few others know the width and breadth of the membership. Leliana brought that spy network, not the Inquisition. I'm asking for a spymaster with the knowledge and experience in the game as well. Whomever replaces Leliana has to do her job. She has to get acquainted with what remains of the Inquisition's scouts after Leliana leaves, remember.

 

 

I'm asking for a diplomat with Josephine's grace and expertise. She was tutored in Val Royeaux, was made Ambassador to Orlais at a very young age, is of noble lineage and has connections with others in various nations. I'm asking for a diplomat who lacks the self-interest so many others do, who is committed 1000% to the cause and not her own benefit.

 

 

I'm asking for a military commander with the experience leading and training large amounts of troops. Cullen has lived the military lifestyle for over half of his life. The commander must not only be intelligent, but sufficiently experienced and capable in dealing all manners of threats- demons, mages, soldiers, etc. The commander must feverishly believe in their cause and have little connection to another group, whether it be governmental, religious or otherwise. You are not in the market for a soldier, you need an experienced, battle hardened commander to care for your troops, to train them, raise them to their highest potential- and then send them to die if necessary. Soldiers may be a dime a dozen, but commanders aren't.

 

 

There is Charter, Ser Barris and Albernach/Movran the Under pair.

 

Charter is the only one even remotely capable of taking up the position, and she's Leliana's.

[Wulfram]

If a glorified prison guard like Cullen can do the job, I don't think the Inquisition forces commander needs all that much military experience.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Many of Leliana's agents are HER agents. People that have worked with her since her time with the Divine, they know, trust, and respect her not whatever random person you decide to replace her with. There are also multiple agents undercover or out of touch doing a variety of important missions, do you expect the lady you just fired to go over every aspect of her job with her replacement? A woman who, if I get this this right, you're firing because of instability issues? 

 

As for Cullen, many of the senior officer's were former Templar's or people that he recruited, now they may just calmly accept that their well respected leader is being replaced for some reason known only to the Inquisitor, but I don't think it'll go over that well.

 

Josephine: It doesn't matter if her replacement is competent or not, the total number of things she does for the Inquisition is staggering, and it would take someone alot more than "competent" to be able to do anywhere near the quality of her work.

 

The timeframe I talked about was over years these people could be replaced, but it would have to be AFTER the crisis. There's a reason that power rarely changes hands during crisis's, it tends to lead in gaps of knowledge and coordination and that gap get's people killed.

They aren't her agents anymore they are inquisition agents as any other members of the inquisition they follow herald also who says that they can' respect new spymaster.Not necessarily she doesn't have to.

 

They don't have to be glad but as i said they can respect new leader.

 

Hardly but i agree that josephine does very good job and it would hard to match her skills but she can be replaced.

 

I disagree on that it would have to be after the crisis unstable employees can bring harm in my opinion.

 

 

 

I'm asking for names because those are roles that need to be filled and the Inquisitor can't. I am asking for people who can be trusted to reliably fill the jobs they do.

 

I'm asking for a spymaster whose own network rivals Leliana. You keep throwing around that the spy network is the 'property' of the Inquisition but only Leliana and maybe a few others know the width and breadth of the membership. Leliana brought that spy network, not the Inquisition. I'm asking for a spymaster with the knowledge and experience in the game as well. Whomever replaces Leliana has to do her job. She has to get acquainted with what remains of the Inquisition's scouts after Leliana leaves, remember.

 

 

I'm asking for a diplomat with Josephine's grace and expertise. She was tutored in Val Royeaux, was made Ambassador to Orlais at a very young age, is of noble lineage and has connections with others in various nations. I'm asking for a diplomat who lacks the self-interest so many others do, who is committed 1000% to the cause and not her own benefit.

 

 

I'm asking for a military commander with the experience leading and training large amounts of troops. Cullen has lived the military lifestyle for over half of his life. The commander must not only be intelligent, but sufficiently experienced and capable in dealing all manners of threats- demons, mages, soldiers, etc. The commander must feverishly believe in their cause and have little connection to another group, whether it be governmental, religious or otherwise. You are not in the market for a soldier, you need an experienced, battle hardened commander to care for your troops, to train them, raise them to their highest potential- and then send them to die if necessary. Soldiers may be a dime a dozen, but commanders aren't.

 

 

 

Charter is the only one even remotely capable of taking up the position, and she's Leliana's.

 

As i said there are plenty peoples among military , bards or just diplomats that could take their position.

 

Spies work for inquisition and they are inquisition spies all you would need is person that would have skills to run spynetwork i already have pointed briala as example of person that is capable of doing that and espionage is hardly only inquisition thing as i said even marjolaine would fit that she wouldn't be very loyal is another matter. 

 

Nothing special from what i know she wasn't only one , of course she is very skilled and it would hard to match her skills and efficacy but she isn't irreplaceable and as well there may be people that are even better than she is.As for names i can't simple by fact josephine from what i know is only named diplomat but we know there is a lot of them just even among inquisition.

 

Cullen is a templar a prison warden not military general and i hardly belive he is only capable military leader in thedas as i mentioned loghain and there are hundreds of other people like barris ,cassandra or even blackwall and those are only among inquisition.
 

[Raiil]

They aren't her agents anymore they are inquisition agents as any other members of the inquisition they follow herald also who says that they can' respect new spymaster.Not necessarily she doesn't have to.

 

They don't have to be glad but as i said they can respect new leader.

 

Hardly but i agree that josephine does very good job and it would hard to match her skills but she can be replaced.

 

I disagree on that it would have to be after the crisis unstable employees can bring harm in my opinion.

 

 

As i said there are plenty peoples among military , bards or just diplomats that could take their position.

 

Spies work for inquisition and they are inquisition spies all you would need is person that would have skills to run spynetwork i already have pointed briala as example of person that is capable of doing that and espionage is hardly only inquisition thing as i said even marjolaine would fit that she wouldn't be very loyal is another matter. 

 

Nothing special from what i know she wasn't only one , of course she is very skilled and it would hard to match her skills and efficacy but she isn't irreplaceable and as well there may be people that are even better than she is.As for names i can't simple by fact josephine from what i know is only named diplomat but we know there is a lot of them just even among inquisition.

 

Cullen is a templar a prison warden not military general and i hardly belive he is only capable military leader in thedas as i mentioned loghain and there are hundreds of other people like barris ,cassandra or even blackwall and those are only among inquisition.
 

 

 

You keep saying this.

 

A soldier is not a commander. A diplomat is not an ambassador. A spy is not a spymaster. I asked for names instead of this hypothetical situation where you'll magically find people who can seamlessly step into their shoes, no problem.

[TheKomandorShepard]

You keep saying this.

 

A soldier is not a commander. A diplomat is not an ambassador. A spy is not a spymaster. I asked for names instead of this hypothetical situation where you'll magically find people who can seamlessly step into their shoes, no problem.

I keep saying that because it is truth and by soldier i obviously don't mean recruited peasant only person qualified to perform leader function and there should be plenty i pointed few examples even among inquisition.

 

Also all positions you pointed are nothing more than pretty much higher rank of profession i have mentioned and as i said there are plenty that could do that.

 

I gave you names who could preform task if i thought about more i could find probably more but as i said we a lot people that we didn't meet and could preform such task.

[Wulfram]

I'd say Thom Rainier's got better command experience than Cullen.  So would pretty much anyone who was an officer during the Blight.

[Raiil]

I keep saying that because it is truth and by soldier i obviously don't mean recruited peasant only person qualified to perform leader function and there should be plenty i pointed few examples even among inquisition.

 

Also all positions you pointed are nothing more than pretty much higher rank of profession i have mentioned and as i said there are plenty that could do that.

 

I gave you names who could preform task if i thought about more i could find probably more but as i said we a lot people that we didn't meet and could preform such task.

 

 

No, it's not.

 

Commanders, spymasters, and ambassadors are at the top of their game. All ambassadors are diplomats, not all diplomats are ambassadors. And aside from one person mentioning Charter- who is put into place by Leliana- there is no one mentioned who has their aforementioned level of skills, strength, and experience. The closest thing we have is Varric, who also functions as a spymaster, and he unequivocally tells you that he can't do Leliana's job.

 

On top of that, to truly serve the Inquisition, they have to be ready and willing to abandon their ties with previous organisations. I'm sure Nevarra has ambassadors, but there is nothing to suggest that they're capable of putting aside any sort of pre-existing prejudices or personal ambition. It's the exact same way that Bull's spies don't belong to the Inquisition. They belong to Bull so long as he belongs to the Ben-Hassrath. Leliana's spies are ours so long as she is ours.

[Gervaise]

What is wrong is the fact that Lelianna's steeling/inspiring entirely depends on a decision right back at the beginning of the game, namely whether or not to kill a spy.   First time I played I just watch what went on because I was new to the team and feeling my way; if this decision was so crucial why not allow a second chance of stopping her executing the spy after you have observed the exchange?   But no, you have to step in right away and yet it makes no sense why she would defer to you at that point since you are not yet the Inquisitor, just someone who may or may not be favoured by the Maker.     Then later, when you are the Inquisitor and give her a direct order not to kill someone, she ignores you.  I agree that you should at least have been able to take issue with her over this but instead you are just left open mouthed and she stalks off.  

 

According to the Tapestry my Inquisitors are seen as merciful.   Why, therefore, does Lelianna not follow my inspiration?   Thankfully I have never got Lelianna as Divine when steeled, largely because I immediately vote for Cassandra after she slays the chantry sister.

[Boost32]

Charter is the only one even remotely capable of taking up the position, and she's Leliana's.

I disagree with you.
Ser Barris showed at Therinfal he has leadership skill, he commanded the templars against the Venatori in Val Colline, against demons in Aunsburg and against Coryoheus forces in the Arbor Wild. He had the same training as Cullen, he dont to something stupid like stop talking Lyrium at the worst time possible or let the red templars corrupt his man like Cullen did.

Albernach is a man from one of the most powerful family from Orlais and a diplomat, I dont see how Josephine can be better than him.

[Raiil]

What is wrong is the fact that Lelianna's steeling/inspiring entirely depends on a decision right back at the beginning of the game, namely whether or not to kill a spy.   First time I played I just watch what went on because I was new to the team and feeling my way; if this decision was so crucial why not allow a second chance of stopping her executing the spy after you have observed the exchange?   But no, you have to step in right away and yet it makes no sense why she would defer to you at that point since you are not yet the Inquisitor, just someone who may or may not be favoured by the Maker.     Then later, when you are the Inquisitor and give her a direct order not to kill someone, she ignores you.  I agree that you should at least have been able to take issue with her over this but instead you are just left open mouthed and she stalks off.  

 

According to the Tapestry my Inquisitors are seen as merciful.   Why, therefore, does Lelianna not follow my inspiration?   Thankfully I have never got Lelianna as Divine when steeled, largely because I immediately vote for Cassandra after she slays the chantry sister.

 

 

Because Leliana is her own person with damn near forty years of experience behind her. Your Inquisitor was nothing before the conclave, and Leliana has had four decades to build her character.

 

You can influence her, but she, as a person, does not exist as an extension of your own will.

[DementedSheep]

Problem with having the option to fire them is that then bioware needs to make another character to fill that hole which probably isn't worth it. Your inner circle are also founding members of the inquisition with their own followers who might leave if they do and they're all mates. You fire one and you're going to ****** off the others. 

[Wulfram]

How come loyalty is so important for a commander or diplomat, but it's OK for us to have a spymaster who goes rogue, and who would, according to you, act to sabotage the Inquisition if it chose to dispense with her services?

[Raiil]

I disagree with you.
Ser Barris showed at Therinfal he has leadership skill, he commanded the templars against the Venatori in Val Colline, against demons in Aunsburg and against Coryoheus forces in the Arbor Wild. He had the same training as Cullen, he dont to something stupid like stop talking Lyrium at the worst time possible or let the red templars corrupt his man like Cullen did.

Albernach is a man from one of the most powerful family from Orlais and a diplomat, I dont see how Josephine can be better than him.

 

And when Barris has had more training, I will agree with you. Of course, neither of them exist in my world state, so that's a problem for anyone who didn't side with the templars. But while Barris has stepped up to be the leader, and that's a mighty good start, afterwards you go through an extensive refining process. There's also the fact that Barris remains a member of the Templar order, whilst Cullen isn't. Cullen doesn't have to choose between the Inquisition and the Templars.

 

And Cullen didn't 'let' anyone take red lyrium. The templars who took it were alternately coerced/pressured/forced/persuaded. Templars like Cullen left, the rest of the resisters were massacred/under the threat of being massacred. Cullen had already left the Order by that point.

 

As for Albernach, he's part of a team, not an individual like Josephine, and part of his strength comes from Movran helping to terrorise people. Additionally, he at no point appears to undertake some of the more extensive duties that Josie does, as she not only negotiates and wheedles/wines and dines the nobility, but is personally responsible for the day to day running of Skyhold. That puts her far, far ahead of even your average diplomat.

[Raiil]

How come loyalty is so important for a commander or diplomat, but it's OK for us to have a spymaster who goes rogue, and who would, according to you, act to sabotage the Inquisition if it chose to dispense with her services?

 

 

Why in the name of all that is Holy would a spymaster give up her occupation wholesale when you decide you don't want her? Do you give your employer your car and your bank account if you quit?

[Boost32]

And when Barris has had more training, I will agree with you. Of course, neither of them exist in my world state, so that's a problem for anyone who didn't side with the templars. But while Barris has stepped up to be the leader, and that's a mighty good start, afterwards you go through an extensive refining process. There's also the fact that Barris remains a member of the Templar order, whilst Cullen isn't. Cullen doesn't have to choose between the Inquisition and the Templars.
 
And Cullen didn't 'let' anyone take red lyrium. The templars who took it were alternately coerced/pressured/forced/persuaded. Templars like Cullen left, the rest of the resisters were massacred/under the threat of being massacred. Cullen had already left the Order by that point.
 
As for Albernach, he's part of a team, not an individual like Josephine, and part of his strength comes from Movran helping to terrorise people. Additionally, he at no point appears to undertake some of the more extensive duties that Josie does, as she not only negotiates and wheedles/wines and dines the nobility, but is personally responsible for the day to day running of Skyhold. That puts her far, far ahead of even your average diplomat.

Cullen was the Knight Commander at Kirkwall when the red templars started corrupting Kirkwall's templars, if you side with the templars in DA2, Hawke tell you they attacked him and he had to fled because of it. Cullen incompetence led his man to be corrupted under his nose, I cant trust a man like him.

I will concede about Albernach because I dont and Josephine to go, she is the only competent advisor.

[Wulfram]

Why in the name of all that is Holy would a spymaster give up her occupation wholesale when you decide you don't want her? Do you give your employer your car and your bank account if you quit?

 

Because she wants the Inquisition to succeed?  Because her network isn't something she built up independently, but something she built up in service of the Divine and the Inquisition, with their resources.

 

If she was the sort of person who'd cast the world to Corypheus out of spite, then all the more reason not to trust this person in our inner councils.

[Raiil]

Cullen was the Knight Commander at Kirkwall when the red templars started corrupting Kirkwall's templars, if you side with the templars in DA2, Hawke tell you they attacked him and he had to fled because of it. Cullen incompetence led his man to be corrupted under his nose, I cant trust a man like him.

I will concede about Albernach because I dont and Josephine to go, she is the only competent advisor.

 

 

I haven't seen that, so I'll ask- are you saying that Cullen let his men be infected by red lyrium due to imcompetence? Lyrium is alive and it spreads, and they're close to Corypheus's prison, all things that would induce it's spread once it's on the surface.

[Raiil]

Because she wants the Inquisition to succeed?  Because her network isn't something she built up independently, but something she built up in service of the Divine and the Inquisition, with their resources.

 

If she was the sort of person who'd cast the world to Corypheus out of spite, then all the more reason not to trust this person in our inner councils.

 

She built it up for the Divine, not the Inquisition; it merely continues to grow under her hand.

 

And why should she trust anyone else with it? Spy rings are delicate things that need to be watched properly. Knowing Leliana she'd simply find a way to ensure her chosen person succeeds her and control it from afar.