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Am I the Only One That Wants the Option to Fire Members of the Inquisition?


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#101
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I haven't seen that, so I'll ask- are you saying that Cullen let his men be infected by red lyrium due to imcompetence? Lyrium is alive and it spreads, and they're close to Corypheus's prison, all things that would induce it's spread once it's on the surface.

No, I said Cullen is incompetent because he didnt found about the red templars in his rank, they even attacked the Viscount of Kirkwall (if you sided with the templars) and he didnt found.
If Corypehus has a army of red templars, a piece of blame can be gives to Cullen, if he did something at Kirkwall, the red templars would not be a threath.

#102
Raiil

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No, I said Cullen is incompetent because he didnt found about the red templars in his rank, they even attacked the Viscount of Kirkwall (if you sided with the templars) and he didnt found.
If Corypehus has a army of red templars, a piece of blame can be gives to Cullen, if he did something at Kirkwall, the red templars would not be a threath.

 

Except he gets them regardless. Cullen in my world state has a Hawke who sided with the mages, yet the red templars still pose an eminent threat. Certain things happen in the story, regardless of previous choices. Leliana always has a strong resistance to the Blight, even if she was never a member of the Warden's group, the Grey Wardens in Orlais always go bat crap regardless of how your Warden in Ferelden treats them, even an Orlesian Warden-Commander.

 

I'm curious as to how Cullen was supposed to figure out that people in the templar ranks were being poisoned/poisoning themselves with red lyrium.



#103
congokong

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Leliana should have been fired after an entire army marched on Haven without the spymaster foreseeing it. lol



#104
Forsythia77

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The Inquisition may be full of a-holes, but they are my a-holes.  Sometimes it's better to keep the lying, murdering, scheming jerks you already know rather than getting rid of them and replacing them (in theory - I say this because we can't.. but if we could) with new people.  I think there comes a point where you just have to work with who you have regardless of personal feelings, because you don't have the luxury of time (again, in theory since you as a player can drag the game on for ever if you wanted) for relationship building anymore.  In the end the only choices I can control are my own. 


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#105
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Except he gets them regardless. Cullen in my world state has a Hawke who sided with the mages, yet the red templars still pose an eminent threat. Certain things happen in the story, regardless of previous choices. Leliana always has a strong resistance to the Blight, even if she was never a member of the Warden's group, the Grey Wardens in Orlais always go bat crap regardless of how your Warden in Ferelden treats them, even an Orlesian Warden-Commander.
 
I'm curious as to how Cullen was supposed to figure out that people in the templar ranks were being poisoned/poisoning themselves with red lyrium.

Yes they are a threath, because the Kirkwall's templars were the first to turn.

How can Hawke, someone outside the Order, knows about it (even if Hawke sided with the mage, he will mention the templars at Kirkwall using lyrium) and Cullen doesnt? If Hawke is the Viscount, the red templars attacked him, how Cullen cant know about a attack against the head of the state?

#106
congokong

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Hmm, the only person that I can think of that I'm annoyed that I couldn't get rid of is Fiona. Though she doesn't really play an important role in the Inquistion, it annoys we that she gets to loiter around my library doing **** all after I saved her ass.

She is 0% useful after the fiasco in Redcliffe. Hell, at least you get to send Barris off on war table missions and make him useful when turning to the Templars for help but Fiona? Nope, she just stands there and blabbers on about her past never even offering any useful information. GTFO Fiona!

Sorry, had to get that off my chest. I feel a lot better now. ;)

lol I always kill her at Haven.

 

 

As for people arguing about Leliana killing Sister Natalie against your orders, you didn't technically order her to spare her. When you say "Let her go" the dialogue is, "We don't have to kill her..." When Leliana assures we do, the Inquisitor stays silent. If the game allowed you to say, "Leliana, I order you to spare her" and Leliana still killed Natalie then a stronger case could be made.



#107
TheKomandorShepard

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No, it's not.

 

Commanders, spymasters, and ambassadors are at the top of their game. All ambassadors are diplomats, not all diplomats are ambassadors. And aside from one person mentioning Charter- who is put into place by Leliana- there is no one mentioned who has their aforementioned level of skills, strength, and experience. The closest thing we have is Varric, who also functions as a spymaster, and he unequivocally tells you that he can't do Leliana's job.

 

On top of that, to truly serve the Inquisition, they have to be ready and willing to abandon their ties with previous organisations. I'm sure Nevarra has ambassadors, but there is nothing to suggest that they're capable of putting aside any sort of pre-existing prejudices or personal ambition. It's the exact same way that Bull's spies don't belong to the Inquisition. They belong to Bull so long as he belongs to the Ben-Hassrath. Leliana's spies are ours so long as she is ours.

It is .

 

No they aren't it is position as i said no one can replace spymaster commander and ambassador such statement is just ridiculous because it would mean inquisition have monopol on those and they don't.I provided examples of people who would fit into such functions so point they are irreplaceable is simple wrong because they aren't because as i have said there is plenty people that could take their fuction. Execpt people like briala and marjolene and many that are similar to them.

 

Leliana and cullen are tied to the chantry and josephine to antiva we didn't know they would serve their ties at least josephine and cullen examples don't see problem with recruitment .

 

"Bull spies" are qunari spies not inquisition not bull ,spies that lelina operates belong to inquisition and are members of it... it is like saying that inquisition soldiers are cullen soldiers



#108
o Ventus

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Future Leliana also doesn't exist anymore.

You could also safely presume that she isn't working for the Inquisition in the future timeline, because everybody else is dead and the world is f**ked.



#109
FadelessRipley

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I think Raiil is my new favourite person on the internet. ;)

As has been stated, Leliana had had this spy network for years. She didn't magically pull it out of thin air just for the Inquisition - they came to the Inquisition with their spymaster. What's to say they wouldn't leave with her? Charter is a good agent, but as a replacement spymaster...? If Leliana is half the spymaster those of us who don't hate her and want her head on a platter think she is, then her agents will mostly only know what they need to know and her cards will be kept very close to her chest. If Leliana leaves with a large contingent, or even without actually, Charter can just take over? She'll be at a huge disadvantage. You can replace Leliana, sure, but you will need to start from pretty far back if not from scratch as regards intel. Not a great position for the Inquisition to be in IMO. And again I'd say the same for Josephine and Cullen.

Again you could replace any of them in theory. Your Inquisition would suffer though.
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#110
KaiserShep

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If Corypehus has a army of red templars, a piece of blame can be gives to Cullen, if he did something at Kirkwall, the red templars would not be a threath.

 

Wha? No way would Cullen have been able to prevent the order from going batshit on Red Lyrium.



#111
Wulfram

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If Leliana is a good spymaster, she should have a clear plan for succession.  Even more so with Cullen.



#112
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Wha? No way would Cullen have been able to prevent the order from going batshit on Red Lyrium.


The templars at Kirkwall were his suboridnates, he could prevent them becoming red templars if he was a good Commander.

#113
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The templars at Kirkwall were his suboridnates, he could prevent them becoming red templars if he was a good Commander.

Cullen was only Knight-Captain. Meredith was the one in control. Did Cullen get promoted after DA2? It's also implied in DAI that when Cassandra recruited Cullen, that he brought along a handful of Templars willing to join him in the Inquisition.



#114
Raiil

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The templars at Kirkwall were his suboridnates, he could prevent them becoming red templars if he was a good Commander.

 

 

I don't think you understand how red lyrium works and how much all this crap is the Chantry's fault. Cullen kept a powder keg from exploding for longer than most.

 

 

If Leliana is a good spymaster, she should have a clear plan for succession.  Even more so with Cullen.

 

Lol. So they should, effectively, give up on all their hard work because some zero to hero thinks they know better? Too much rides on the Inquisition to give any one person that much power. Part of the Inquisition's strength is that they are able to delegate work to people who handle it better. Leliana doesn't tell Cullen how to train his troops or where to send them, Cullen doesn't tell Josephine how to deal with crappy nobles, Josephine doesn't dictate where Leliana sends her scouts and spies. The Inquisitor doesn't kowtow to her advisors, but neither do they defer all their decisions to her- in fact, they do the intelligent thing, which is offer options when avaliable and work with what they have if there really aren't viable alternatives. 

 

Dictatorships have a tendency to fail for a reason. Even Kings with divine right that had more brain cells than a turnip listened and heeded their advisors.

 

 

No they aren't it is position as i said no one can replace spymaster commander and ambassador such statement is just ridiculous because it would mean inquisition have monopol on those and they don't.I provided examples of people who would fit into such functions so point they are irreplaceable is simple wrong because they aren't because as i have said there is plenty people that could take their fuction. Execpt people like briala and marjolene and many that are similar to them.

 

Leliana and cullen are tied to the chantry and josephine to antiva we didn't know they would serve their ties at least josephine and cullen examples don't see problem with recruitment .

 

"Bull spies" are qunari spies not inquisition not bull ,spies that lelina operates belong to inquisition and are members of it... it is like saying that inquisitionsoldiers are cullen soldiers

 

The Inquisition doesn't have a monopoly. What they do have are three advisors who have consistently shown that their loyalties are to the Inquisition- not to the Chantry, not to Antiva, not to the Templars. Leliana and Cassandra flat out told the highest ranking member of the Chantry left to shut his gaping mouth hole, Cullen had already left the Templar order, and Josephine came at the behest of Leliana to serve the Inquisition, not the Chantry. 

 

Briala and Marjolaine are no where near the level of Leliana at her height. Briala's elves serve mostly in Orlais, and they're committed to the cause of elven freedom, not the Inquisition. Marjolaine never shows any sort of extensive spy network. Neither had the initial financial backing of the Divine.

 

So let's reiterate: Leliana's spies? They answer to Leliana. In what universe would she willingly hand them over during a major crisis when no one has shown that they can take the reins? Sure, this person keeps flapping their gums about how they're the big boss and they should decide everything- which is a pretty good sign that they're talking with their ego and not their brain. The Inquisitor shows exactly zero aptitude in not only understanding how a spy ring works, but how to keep it running while you look for a suitable replacement. Spymasters are not identical, and this is made more problematic because the job inherently demands you to plan ahead in ways that the opposition doesn't understand. What you're suggesting is that you can set up a  Gliński board, start a game, and then swap one of the players halfway through and expect them to understand what the previous player was doing. There are too many pieces and possibilities to assure victory, and that is your primary goal- not to assuage some Inquisitor who feels that they need to impress their authority by tossing out the best of the best because you don't like their attitude.


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#115
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Cullen was only Knight-Captain. Meredith was the one in control. Did Cullen get promoted after DA2? It's also implied in DAI that when Cassandra recruited Cullen, that he brought along a handful of Templars willing to join him in the Inquisition.

Yes he was promoted to Knight-Commander after Meredith's death (at Halamshiral he will be announced as former Knight-Commander from Kirkwall). He could have brought the templars willing to join the Inquisition, its doesnt excuse him from letting the red templars corrupt his men under his nose.

 

 

I don't think you understand how red lyrium works and how much all this crap is the Chantry's fault. Cullen kept a powder keg from exploding for longer than most.

How its Chantry's fault? Cullen was the Commander in Kirkwall for 3 years, while he was in commanding, the red templars corrupted his men and he did nothing to stop them, hell he might not even know about it, how its a good commander? If your subordinates use a substance that you know is bad and start attacking the head of state, how its not your fault? If he couldnt control his men at Kirkwall, why it made him a good commander for the Inquisition?



#116
Wulfram

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Lol. So they should, effectively, give up on all their hard work because some zero to hero thinks they know better?


No. They should do their best to preserve their hard work, rather than sabotaging it out of pure spite as you advocate. And they should respect the leader they chose
Also, they should remember that they're not immortal. If a single knife can cripple a major segment of the Inquisition, that's a big problem. Hence why a clear chain of command, and mechanisms to pass a spy network on to a successor, are necessary.

Too much rides on the Inquisition to give any one person that much power. Part of the Inquisition's strength is that they are able to delegate work to people who handle it better. Leliana doesn't tell Cullen how to train his troops or where to send them, Cullen doesn't tell Josephine how to deal with crappy nobles, Josephine doesn't dictate where Leliana sends her scouts and spies. The Inquisitor doesn't kowtow to her advisors, but neither do they defer all their decisions to her- in fact, they do the intelligent thing, which is offer options when avaliable and work with what they have if there really aren't viable alternatives. 
 
Dictatorships have a tendency to fail for a reason. Even Kings with divine right that had more brain cells than a turnip listened and heeded their advisors.


Heeding your advisors is good. So is replacing your advisers if they've gone crazy and started murdering people against your wishes. Or perhaps if they were previously complicit in the mass slaughter of men, women and children.
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#117
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Yes he was promoted to Knight-Commander after Meredith's death (at Halamshiral he will be announced as former Knight-Commander from Kirkwall). He could have brought the templars willing to join the Inquisition, its doesnt excuse him from letting the red templars corrupt his men under his nose.

 

The templars may have started taking red lyrium after Cullen left.



#118
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The templars may have started taking red lyrium after Cullen left.

Cullen left after Cassandra arrived at Kirkwall, by that time, Hawke was already gone.

 

Here is the video where Hawkes talks about it:

And here is a video at Halamshiral, where Cullen is presented as former Knight-Commander of Kirkwall



#119
TheKomandorShepard

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The Inquisition doesn't have a monopoly. What they do have are three advisors who have consistently shown that their loyalties are to the Inquisition- not to the Chantry, not to Antiva, not to the Templars. Leliana and Cassandra flat out told the highest ranking member of the Chantry left to shut his gaping mouth hole, Cullen had already left the Templar order, and Josephine came at the behest of Leliana to serve the Inquisition, not the Chantry. 

 

Briala and Marjolaine are no where near the level of Leliana at her height. Briala's elves serve mostly in Orlais, and they're committed to the cause of elven freedom, not the Inquisition. Marjolaine never shows any sort of extensive spy network. Neither had the initial financial backing of the Divine.

 

So let's reiterate: Leliana's spies? They answer to Leliana. In what universe would she willingly hand them over during a major crisis when no one has shown that they can take the reins? Sure, this person keeps flapping their gums about how they're the big boss and they should decide everything- which is a pretty good sign that they're talking with their ego and not their brain. The Inquisitor shows exactly zero aptitude in not only understanding how a spy ring works, but how to keep it running while you look for a suitable replacement. Spymasters are not identical, and this is made more problematic because the job inherently demands you to plan ahead in ways that the opposition doesn't understand. What you're suggesting is that you can set up a  Gliński board, start a game, and then swap one of the players halfway through and expect them to understand what the previous player was doing. There are too many pieces and possibilities to assure victory, and that is your primary goal- not to assuage some Inquisitor who feels that they need to impress their authority by tossing out the best of the best because you don't like their attitude.

Advisors that were recruited from another organizations as i said nothing would stop me from doing that or just search among free like marjolene.Cullen left from what i remember when he joined inquisition before than he was still templar in kirkwall that was helping restore order in kirkwall.

 

Hardly briala is said to be very competent spymaster and lacks leliana issues when considering that marjolaine had contants in ferelden as well so yes she definitely had familiarity on that topic not mention there is plenty as i said other people like briala or marjolaine. 

 

As i said those aren't leliana spies those are inquisition spies and those spies are members of the inquisition that leliana commands them don't make them hers as soldiers that serve under orlesian commander don't belong to commander only to orlesian army that commander serves.

She don't have to hand me them over they already serve me as members of the inquisition where im leader of this organisation and leliana only oversees spynetwork as member of the inquisition.Also you wouldn't need wait for replacement as i said i doubt inquisition have no spies that couldn't handle this position also with knowing more or less what going on somone already mentioned one of such members.

 

Disobedience and threats from subordinates isn't something that leader by any way should tolerate or even is tolerated in fact pretty much leliana would end executed in most cases for doing such crap. 



#120
Qun00

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I can understand wanting the option to fire your other companions, but the advisors? Hell no.

They are far more experienced in their field than your character was at whatever s/he was doing before.

#121
TheKomandorShepard

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I can understand wanting the option to fire your other companions, but the advisors? Hell no.

They are far more experienced in their field than your character was at whatever s/he was doing before.

I can say that about lot of characters in the setting and well they are there.



#122
Qun00

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"You moved my furniture?? GUARDS!!! *hands Vivienne a cardboard box* Escort this snooty piece of work back to Val Royeaux!! We'll mail you your last months wages your highness!!"


Moving the furniture was never the issue.

She mocks your character during the whole cutscene.

And let us not forget, just because she doesn't agree with your choices.

#123
Wulfram

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I can understand wanting the option to fire your other companions, but the advisors? Hell no.

They are far more experienced in their field than your character was at whatever s/he was doing before.

 

Eh, not really.  Inquisitor is 30ish, they've probably spent 10 years in their profession.  Leliana only started being a spymaster in 9:34 at the earliest - you can count her previous bardic experience if you like, but that's maybe 8 years and still wouldn't take you to "far more".  Cullen's barely done any proper soldiering, and anyway was a noob Templar 10 years ago.  Josephine is most likely younger than the Inquisitor.

 

You can say they're good at the job if you want, but they're not experienced.



#124
Raiil

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How its Chantry's fault? Cullen was the Commander in Kirkwall for 3 years, while he was in commanding, the red templars corrupted his men and he did nothing to stop them, hell he might not even know about it, how its a good commander? If your subordinates use a substance that you know is bad and start attacking the head of state, how its not your fault? If he couldnt control his men at Kirkwall, why it made him a good commander for the Inquisition?

 

The Chantry set up the entire clusterbomb situation through sheer stupidity, like not keeping Meredith in check, allowing her to foster an atmosphere of paranoia, or keeping mages penned up in a former slave building where the Veil isn't just torn, but shredded into nothing. Elthina should have been removed from authority ages ago. Kirkwall wouldn't have exploded if the Chantry hadn't been a Theodosian papacy. 



#125
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The Chantry set up the entire clusterbomb situation through sheer stupidity, like not keeping Meredith in check, allowing her to foster an atmosphere of paranoia, or keeping mages penned up in a former slave building where the Veil isn't just torn, but shredded into nothing. Elthina should have been removed from authority ages ago. Kirkwall wouldn't have exploded if the Chantry hadn't been a Theodosian papacy. 

What it have to do with we were talking about? We were talking about the time Cullen was Knight-Commander (so Meredith was already dead) and how he couldnt lead his subordinates.

Have you seen the video I posted?