316 réponses à ce sujet

[Dutch]

Pre-Established Fact: There are no warriors that are female amongst Qun society.

Retcon by SJW Bioware: Krem would fit in prefectly in that society being a warrior according to Bull despite her being biologically female so she can't be a soldier!

Qunari are very liberal eh?

[Dio Demon]

No. Krem is a man. Who is biologically female.

 

0/10 troll

 

Now you have to repeat year 1 twice.

[AresKeith]

Remember when trolling was a fine art

 

Now it's lame

[Dio Demon]

Remember when trolling was a fine art

 

Now it's lame

It's gone the way of music...

 

No longer art...

[AppalachianApex]

[Dutch]

No. Krem is a man. Who is biologically female.

0/10 troll

Now you have to repeat year 1 twice.

That doesn't make any sense.

[Spellbound7]

Krem's biological sex is female. His gendre is male. Sex =/= gendre.

[Dutch]

Krem's biological sex is female. His gendre is male. Sex =/= gendre.

? I don't think so.

[DomeWing333]

There's already a thread on this.

[AppalachianApex]

? I don't think so.

 

You don't need to think so, that's the way it is.

Krem is a guy. Therefore; Qunari warrior. Simple as that.

[Winged Silver]

If we use Sten's logic from the first game, even if Krem didn't identify as male, his being a warrior would make him so. Like what Sten says to a female warden "You are a warrior. It follows that you cannot be a woman" or something along those lines. So regardless, by Qunari culture, Krem is a male. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

Gaider explained this very clearly. It makes sense as long as you take Sten's comments about social roles literally, without applying your own assumptions.

[Saphiron123]

No. Krem is a man. Who is biologically female.
 
0/10 troll
 
Now you have to repeat year 1 twice.

Considering this is a concept that most of the human race is still learning to accept, would a violent race of grey Giants who follow the strictest religion in thedas really get that concept?

Inclusion is great, but it is honestly a bit of a retcon. I mean, try and explain the idea to any medieval warrior society in all of history? Probably wouldn't be greeted with kindness and understanding... I just don't see sten getting that. Hell, forget what he said about the warden, put him in a party with wynne and he's super clear about the fact he thinks she's wasting her life in a fantasy. He even says you can't choose to be anything but what you are.

That's Sten's opinion as written by bioware, I guess it's their right to retcon the qunari and make them happy inclusive types,mbut I kind of liked them as religious fanatics... Understanding? No, but certainly unique. Next thing you know the darkspawn will be making speeches about accepting everyone instead of eating them.

I'm kind of with OP, everyone deserves to be included, but this feels forced. I think it's awesome that ferelden is so open minded, but if corypheus comes back and starts preaching about tolerance my suspension of disbelief will be long gone.

Gaider explained this very clearly. It makes sense as long as you take Sten's comments about social roles literally, without applying your own assumptions.

Gaider didn't write Sten or the qunari in da2, Mary Kirby did, he just retconned everything sten said and made up an explanation after the fact. His right, but they were more interesting as savage warriors who wanted you to join the Qun or die.

[DomeWing333]

Considering this is a concept that most of the human race is still learning to accept, would a violent race of grey Giants who follow the strictest religion in thedas really get that concept?

You should be careful when making generalizations about the human race as a whole. There are many societies in the world (some of which are fairly undeveloped) that have long accepted certain types of gender non-conformity in various ways. You can see a list here. The albanian sworn virgins appear to be the closest approximation I can find for the Aqun-aathlok.

[Dio Demon]

Gaider didn't write Sten or the qunari in da2, Mary Kirby did, he just retconned everything sten said and made up an explanation after the fact. His right, but they were more interesting as savage warriors who wanted you to join the Qun or die.

The writers don't act in a vacuum. They work in the same room. They bounce ideas of each other and probably bounce each other off one another.

[Panda]

I was first suprised, but then all the cultures are different and usually more consertive and strict in some stuff than others and then more liberal about other stuff. For example Iran is liberal about transgender people and recognizes them, although they are very against different sexual orientations (in general). So in some aspect this country that is seen as quite strict and traditional can be more liberal than country that is seen as liberal like USA, but in some aspects it's way more consertive and strict. I think this is what's happening with Qun, they just acknowledge that there is transgender people even more than lot of people in other places of Thedas recognize, cause that's part of their culture.

[Dai Grepher]

The Iron Bull was lying to make Krem feel better. What The Sten said is correct. Under the Qun, females cannot be warriors as they cannot be males.

[Dai Grepher]

[Double post]

[Nefla]

I did think it was weird that the Qun was suddenly all warm and fuzzy and accepting of diversity. Is this the same culture where someone kills you for losing your sword, mages have their eyes and mouths sewn shut, women aren't warriors, people can't choose their job or who they have children with, they can't keep their children, people are regularly brainwashed, you are not allowed to question, etc...I think it would have made for a much better story if it was just Iron Bull himself that was kind and accepting, then it would have been another point of internal conflict for him. As it was, all the harshness we'd seen and heard about previously was glossed over or not mentioned and from what we heard from Iron Bull the Qun seemed very laid back. Priests have sex with you whenever you're feeling frisky (but woe betide you if you choose a random person to have sex with for love?) people can now decide they want to live as a different gender and women who are good at fighting are just renamed to men even if they change nothing about their voice, behavior, or appearance (um what?). The Qun was interesting because it was alien, horrible, and oppressive you see elves converting to the Qun and think "their lives must have been truly horrible to make that decision."

[Dai Grepher]

[Triple post]

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Priests have sex with you whenever you're feeling frisky (but woe betide you if you choose a random person to have sex with for love?)

Yeah, that was another retcon I didn't like. At first the Qun only let members have sex for procreational purposes. But then in Inquisition The Iron Bull tells us that they can have sex with a Tamassran sex slave whenever they want.

[Gileadan]

In my opinion, the Qunari and the Qun have gone steeply downhill ever since Sten.

 

Sten and the idea of the qunari as a whole impressed me. Here was a fresh alien race, made alien by their habits and culture and ways of speech, not by basically taking a human and slapping exotic looks on him/her and calling it a day. Then they grew horns. And now we have the Iron Bull, a character who often acts and talks like a human but looks wildly exotic - the 180 degree turn from Sten. Meh.

 

Don't misunderstand me, I like the Bull and would love to share some drinks with the guy, I just don't like what the qunari have become by now. 

 

What really grates me though is the portrayal of the Qun in DA:I. The existence of re-educators who apparently also work with qunari who were born in and grew up within the Qun baffles me. Why does this even happen? It's like the Qun as a whole is aware of being unnatural and forced, a way of life that a normal qunari (as in the race, I don't use the K-word) would not choose for themselves if they had a choice in it. DA:I gave me the feeling that qunari are just humans with horns, who would act like humans if they weren't forced under the Qun... as opposed to being a race whose evolution gave them a natural strong sense and preference for collectivism, unity and efficiency over personal freedom.

 

Meh, again.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I think they are trying to make the Qun more likable to fans as we head north and they play a larger role. 

[Panda]

The Iron Bull was lying to make Krem feel better. What The Sten said is correct. Under the Qun, females cannot be warriors as they cannot be males.

 

In viewpoint of Qun Krem is male and thus he can be warrior.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I did think it was weird that the Qun was suddenly all warm and fuzzy and accepting of diversity. Is this the same culture where someone kills you for losing your sword, mages have their eyes and mouths sewn shut, women aren't warriors, people can't choose their job or who they have children with, they can't keep their children, people are regularly brainwashed, you are not allowed to question, etc...I think it would have made for a much better story if it was just Iron Bull himself that was kind and accepting, then it would have been another point of internal conflict for him. As it was, all the harshness we'd seen and heard about previously was glossed over or not mentioned and from what we heard from Iron Bull the Qun seemed very laid back. Priests have sex with you whenever you're feeling frisky (but woe betide you if you choose a random person to have sex with for love?) people can now decide they want to live as a different gender and women who are good at fighting are just renamed to men even if they change nothing about their voice, behavior, or appearance (um what?). The Qun was interesting because it was alien, horrible, and oppressive you see elves converting to the Qun and think "their lives must have been truly horrible to make that decision."

 

This. 

 

Bioware's petty attempts to try to appear "liberal" and "politically correct" with the Qunari is quite frankly pathetic. 

 

It actually goes to show you how people take a fictional world and fictional people way too seriously when mentally mature people are supposed to be capable of not doing that. Kinda like religion and deities really. 

 

The Qunari portrayed by the Iron Bull and Qunari in DAI = / = Qunari portrayed by Sten and by Dragon Age 2.

 

Now I would not actually mind if this series of mental gymnastics performed by Hissrad was an attempt to cope with the colossal dissonance due to his PTSD that he suffers from serving under the Qun.  

 

Damn, that arc about a soldier and a spy suffering from PTSD and suffering from the burden of having to choose between his indoctrinated home culture versus the world would have made for an incredible character arc and storyline. We do not always see portrayals of war veterans and intelligence agency veterans who have PTSD. That would have made for a properly mature and interesting content. 

 

Seriously, who here would prefer a Qunari follower with a character arc about suffering from severe psychological trauma and having to deal with his experience vs indoctrinated world views as opposed to a Qunari is that surprising open minded that f**ks everything ? 

 

I mean, Iron Bull could have been like Batman from The Dark Knight Returns. In that comic, Batman is depicted as someone who suffering from dual personality of sorts, one is Bruce Wayne and the other is Batman. Imagine how cool it would be to have Iron Bull as someone, whom after all this shite he has seen and has been put through, develops some form of dual personality like that where one is Hissrad and the other is the Iron Bull. 

 

That would have been really good, really deep, dark, gritty and mature. 

 

But nope. That part is pretty much glossed over except for a few lines here and there. There is little mention of it at all. Instead its all about "liberalism ftw !" and BDSM sex. 

 

I guess the motto for the Bioware writing team would be :- Decline In Quality With Each Game. 

 

Iron Bull and the Qunari had tremendous potential but got ruined by the need to appeal to mainstream and the need to appeal to fanservice. 

 

*Disgusted noise*