If it's actually half, then the problem isn't with the fans. Little story details should generally go by without a hitch.
I don't care about Krem much, but writing people off isn't solving anything.
I say half because some view it as bad and some don't
Pre-Established Fact: There are no warriors that are female amongst Qun society.
Retcon by SJW Bioware: Krem would fit in prefectly in that society being a warrior according to Bull despite her being biologically female so she can't be a soldier!
Qunari are very liberal eh?
I agree. The Qun would have told Krem to suck it up the way they told mages to suck it up. It wasn't supposed to be a liberal society. People are forgetting the Qun were the baddies of the game.
They're not supposed to be love and light or understanding.
No. Krem is a man. Who is biologically female.
0/10 troll
Now you have to repeat year 1 twice.
Why is he a troll?
I'm sorry but the Qun were never people you wanted to join BECAUSE they dictated your entire life based off of details you could not change about yourself.
This retcon is like making Darth Vader a huge wussy old white dude at the end of Return.
Leave our scary bad guys, scary. We don't need to make everyone fluffy bunnnies.
At a certain point we will have no one to dislike in this game.
Krem's biological sex is female. His gendre is male. Sex =/= gendre.
The Qun wouldn't have cared about his gender when they assigned him his role. Does anyone remember what the Qun did to mages? Why would they suddenly care about Krem's personal feelings about who he is when you are given a role and are forced to excel within it.
We weren't supposed to like the Qun or want to be a part of the Qun. That's why everyone was scared crapless of them taking over Kirkwall.
They're not "good guys".
The Qun wouldn't have cared about his gender when they assigned him his role. Does anyone remember what the Qun did to mages? Why would they suddenly care about Krem's personal feelings about who he is when you are given a role and are forced to excel within it.
We weren't supposed to like the Qun or want to be a part of the Qun. That's why everyone was scared crapless of them taking over Kirkwall.
They're not "good guys".
Who's saying they're good guys?
Sigh. It works fine. Sten wasn't flummoxed that the fwarden had lady bits. He was flummoxed that she identified as a woman.
Iron bull even comments on that. He considers cassandra to be male, at least when she's in armour.
How do you know he wasn't flummoxed she had lady bits? As a woman I didn't read that statement that way at all. I read it as he looked down on women in general and was surprised that women could be warriors.
Everyone does realize the Qun is a giant bunch of assholes, right? Stormtroopers and Darth Vader were cool even though they were assholes because of the uniforms and music. It didn't stop them from being evil.
The Qun wouldn't have cared about his gender when they assigned him his role. Does anyone remember what the Qun did to mages? Why would they suddenly care about Krem's personal feelings about who he is when you are given a role and are forced to excel within it.
We weren't supposed to like the Qun or want to be a part of the Qun. That's why everyone was scared crapless of them taking over Kirkwall.
They're not "good guys".
I've never viewed the Qunari as the "bad guys" either, though. I think the beauty of that group is that they are very 'grey' in nature. Them having aqun-athlok doesn't make them any less grey to me.
Who's saying they're good guys?
People who seem to think that they care about someone's feelings in their role are implying they're good guys--look I'm not going to write a thesis here or do that thing where I debate this like I'm debating gun control or single payer health care so don't expect every single word I say to be the most precise choice or every phrase to be fully formed.
I'm using figurative language because it's a game forum, but...
It is bad to discriminate, yes?
Yes. We agree.
We're supposed to be angry with the Qun because they discriminate, remove choice, and block people into categories. Their presence in Kirkwall was a morality tale, we were not supposed to want to be told how to live our lives by an arbitrary authority like the Qun.
We were supposed to want to fight back against a traditional, oppressive, patriarchal society like the Qun.
I've never viewed the Qunari as the "bad guys" either, though. I think the beauty of that group is that they are very 'grey' in nature. Them having aqun-athlok doesn't make them any less grey to me.
Well, I suppose people liked patriarchal societies in history...as a female I can't say I'm too fond.
Well, I suppose people liked patriarchal societies in history...as a female I can't say I'm too fond.
Technically the Qun isn't patriarchal.
Men control the military, but the priesthood consists of both men and women, and only women control the breeding program and assign roles.
btw, lest I forget...this is my opinion. I don't claim to speak for anyone other than myself so even when I speak in emphatic language I'm speaking for me.
In viewpoint of Qun Krem is male and thus he can be warrior.
No.
And for those talking about Gaider, he is no longer part of Dragon Age. His opinion is not canon, even if you thought it was before.
Yes, The Sten and The Iron Bull have different perspectives on the Qun. The Sten's is correct. The Iron Bull's is not.
Technically the Qun isn't patriarchal.
Men control the military, but the priesthood consists of both men and women, and only women control the breeding program and assign roles.
I disagree. Military has been traditionally male. Breeding and caretaking is female.
Respect tho, Sandal. You are not a stinkbug. Anyone who believes Sandalisthemaker is alright with me.
We're supposed to be angry with the Qun because they discriminate, remove choice, and block people into categories. Their presence in Kirkwall was a morality tale, we were not supposed to want to be told how to live our lives by an arbitrary authority like the Qun.
We were supposed to want to fight back against a traditional, oppressive, patriarchal society like the Qun.
Perhaps "we were supposed to" have various views on them?
I genuinely don't think that they were created with the intention of being the "bad guys". I think that they were created to be a totalitarian state that was foreign to the rest of Thedas. You can interpret that as "bad guys", I guess, but I don't think that this was their intentions.
I disagree. Military has been traditionally male. Breeding and caretaking is female.
Respect tho, Sandal. You are not a stinkbug. Anyone who believes Sandalisthemaker is alright with me.
I don't think you have a well-rounded enough view on the Qunari, then. sandal is right; there are three arms of the Qun and women control, in some capacity, two of those arms, just like males. It's not a patriarchy at all. You can argue that the Antaam is 'partriarchal', but you can't make that argument for the other two branches of the triumvirate.
People who seem to think that they care about someone's feelings in their role are implying they're good guys--look I'm not going to write a thesis here or do that thing where I debate this like I'm debating gun control or single payer health care so don't expect every single word I say to be the most precise choice or every phrase to be fully formed.
I'm using figurative language because it's a game forum, but...
It is bad to discriminate, yes?
Yes. We agree.
We're supposed to be angry with the Qun because they discriminate, remove choice, and block people into categories. Their presence in Kirkwall was a morality tale, we were not supposed to want to be told how to live our lives by an arbitrary authority like the Qun.
We were supposed to want to fight back against a traditional, oppressive, patriarchal society like the Qun.
Qun is not patriarchal society. Actually it's opposite Qunari is more Matriarchy. Arigena is always female and She represents the embodiment of the industrial, agricultural and mercantile aspect of the Qunari government, having oversight over what the Qunari believe to be the 'mind' of their society. And Tamassran always female.
Qunari is communism: The Qunari reject private property. They also don't have currency, nor do they engage in direct bartering: they don't buy and sell things amongst one another. "Merchants" in Qunari cities have the job of making sure goods are distributed appropriately.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Perhaps "we were supposed to" have various views on them?
I genuinely don't think that they were created with the intention of being the "bad guys". I think that they were created to be a totalitarian state that was foreign to the rest of Thedas. You can interpret that as "bad guys", I guess, but I don't think that this was their intentions.
Totalitarianism is always bad.
I think even the assholes who get off on ruling that way know it's bad too. They just happen to be in charge.
Totalitarianism is always bad.
I think even the assholes who get off on ruling that way know it's bad too. They just happen to be in charge.
I think there's a difference between, "This is an oppressive society" and "These are the 'bad guys' of the setting". That's my point. I don't want to live in that society, but that doesn't mean that they are the 'bad guys'.
The Qunari have gender roles. What good would those roles be if people could somehow pick their gender by claiming to be that gender? Of course the Qun would demand someone like Krem be re-educated to accept physical reality.
No.
And for those talking about Gaider, he is no longer part of Dragon Age. His opinion is not canon, even if you thought it was before.
Yes, The Sten and The Iron Bull have different perspectives on the Qun. The Sten's is correct. The Iron Bull's is not.
I don't get your logic now at all. Gaider was in charge of DA series and builded Thedas during DAO that Sten was in. Patrick Weekes wrote Iron Bull and is charge of DA series at the moment and his words are now canon (in your logic), but Sten from DAO overrules Iron Bull's words? That doesn't make sense. What you are saying is that Patrick Weekes words are now canon and they are words of Iron Bull as well and thus can't be overruled by DAO character?
I don't get your logic now at all. Gaider was in charge of DA series and builded Thedas during DAO that Sten was in. Patrick Weekes wrote Iron Bull and is charge of DA series at the moment and his words are now canon (in your logic), but Sten from DAO overrules Iron Bull's words? That doesn't make sense. What you are saying is that Patrick Weekes words are now canon and they are words of Iron Bull as well and thus can't be overruled by DAO character?
Ding, ding, ding. I think someone didn't really think through his argument before he posted. If Sten is 'correct', then so is Gaider. If Weekes is 'correct', then so is Bull.
It is not impossible that writers make mistakes. For example, Aribeth's background story changed completely between NWN OC and NWN HotU. It can happen.
Next game will probably have a codex entry titled "Gender and the Qun" or something like that. Players need to be properly educated.
Iran just upheld the law that allows homosexual behavior to be punished with stoning last year...
It is a retcon though, seriously, play origins, take sten out with the women (especially wynne) and read gaider's comments on women warriors and qunari. He sort of changes whatever he wants whenever he wants.
They did, but homosexuality isn't the same as transgender. Iran accepts gender reassignment as a "solution" to the "problem" of homosexual men, often forcing reassignment surgery on them. Some Google results for perusal here.
Obviously I'm *not* saying that's right, or that it is any kind of progressive or compassionate thinking on the issue (far from it). However it's a similar-ish thinking to what the acceptance of trans in the Qun is meant to be. Obviously the reassignment issue can't be explored, as the only feasible method available in the world of Thedas to achieve such things is magic, which the Qun abhors.
I guess my basic point is that very rigid, "oppressive" cultures don't fit the mold on every single issue that we see as "liberal". So I don't find the Qun having a seemingly wildly progressive view on something like this as completely incomprehensible. OTOH, it is somewhat at odds with the rigid idea that everything has its predefined place and purpose as espoused by Sten. I guess it partly boils down to whether you think the Qunari capable of any sort of thinking-outside-the-box on the issue. It's not 100% completely outside the realm of possibility, but doesn't fit 100% in keeping with our understanding either.
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