81 réponses à ce sujet

[katokires]

Why do we care what the game was supposed to be? I'm much more interested in what the game is.

Of course Mr. Winner side.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Because you probably can enjoy it. I care about what Bioware would do without EA forcing stupid directions on development like the engine and multiplayer.

That's easy. They would have gone out of business six years ago.

The sale to EA was one of necessity.

[xkg]

I believe Bioware when they stated they were not (officially) mandated to use the Frostbite Engine.  However, I also believe EA strongly suggested that Bioware should use the Frostbite Engine to save on development costs.

 

I don't believe them even a little. Were they not mandated ? Hard to guess, but read this and suddenly everything will become more clear. 

 

EA announced that it was moving away from a fragmented development system where seemingly every studio used a different toolset to create its games, and would use Frostbite, the publisher's proprietary game engine, instead.

 

And of course it was move to save the costs, that's what EA do best.

[Lilithor]

That's easy. They would have gone out of business six years ago.

The sale to EA was one of necessity.

Which makes me even more sad that they were sold since I regret playing everything they did after Origins.
But that was not my point, I was talking about a fantasy where a company would let them free to do whatever they want however they want.
But I understand people prefer beautiful graphics to kickstarters...
It is just sad to feel hopeless about a franchise you used to love. If it is about money I would rather they went Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty delivering repetitive games over and over again year after year with lots of poor DLCs, at least it would be DAO or DA2 over and over again, there would be no risk of a thing like Inquisition if they had only one year to develop the games... less is more.

[Auztin]

If they didn't get bought by EA,you would not get any DA sequels or ME Trilogy.

[xkg]

If they didn't get bought by EA,you would not get any DA sequels or ME Trilogy.

 

I would have no problem with that. I could still have DA:O and ME1 to play. And I wouldn't have wasted money on those 3 failures - DA2, ME2 and on failed TORTANIC.  

[RMP _]

You do realize that the choice of game engine (aka Frostbite) is a design choice.  See also:  the addition of multiplayer, supporting multiple platforms, playing better with controller on PC...

 

I believe Bioware when they stated they were not (officially) mandated to use the Frostbite Engine.  However, I also believe EA strongly suggested that Bioware should use the Frostbite Engine to save on development costs.

 

 

The engine is more of a technical choice.

 

Some of the biggest complaints I've read on these forums about the game are not technical:

 

1. Main story is lacking.

2. Villain is plain.

3. Huge, open areas, not enough interesting stuff in them.

4. Too many fetch quests.

5. Respawning enemies.

 

Obviously the engine is not at fault for that kind of stuff. That's what I meant when I talked about design choices.

 

What else is there to complain about that you might blame the engine on? The combat? I highly doubt the engine was any sort of limitation. I find it similar to DA2..

 

Lack of tactics? Poor overhead cam? Show me a link where a dev blames the engine. I think they just wanted the combat to be simpler, and console controls and multiplayer had priority in their mind.

 

All this ragging on the engine, nobody talks about the good it brings to the table. It makes sense that EA would strongly encourage all their teams to use it. I seriously doubt Bioware could develop an engine from scratch that would make the game look better than it does. DA:O did not look better than ME (Unreal). They obviously put a lot of resources into Frostbite. Why would they want their teams to waste their time re-inventing the wheel? Why should they pay royalties for using someone else's game engine? There is a lot about EA not to like, but some of these posts are ridiculous.

 

Bioware shouldn't be forced to use it if it really doesn't fit their needs, but I haven't seen any proof of that in this thread. Just a lot of baseless complaints.

[Monster20862]

For a first game on a brand new engine, I think they did a rather good job.

Watch them blow you away with the next Mass Effect. Mass Effect is more suitable for Frostbite anyway, as it's a shooter at heart.

Don't you dare call mass effect a shooter! Just kidding, go ahead.

[Monster20862]

The engine is more of a technical choice.

Some of the biggest complaints I've read on these forums about the game are not technical:

1. Main story is lacking.
2. Villain is plain.
3. Huge, open areas, not enough interesting stuff in them.
4. Too many fetch quests.
5. Respawning enemies.

Obviously the engine is not at fault for that kind of stuff. That's what I meant when I talked about design choices.

What else is there to complain about that you might blame the engine on? The combat? I highly doubt the engine was any sort of limitation. I find it similar to DA2..

Lack of tactics? Poor overhead cam? Show me a link where a dev blames the engine. I think they just wanted the combat to be simpler, and console controls and multiplayer had priority in their mind.

All this ragging on the engine, nobody talks about the good it brings to the table. It makes sense that EA would strongly encourage all their teams to use it. I seriously doubt Bioware could develop an engine from scratch that would make the game look better than it does. DA:O did not look better than ME (Unreal). They obviously put a lot of resources into Frostbite. Why would they want their teams to waste their time re-inventing the wheel? Why should they pay royalties for using someone else's game engine? There is a lot about EA not to like, but some of these posts are ridiculous.

Bioware shouldn't be forced to use it if it really doesn't fit their needs, but I haven't seen any proof of that in this thread. Just a lot of baseless complaints.

Actually, when you spend too much time on one thing (the engine), the less time you have to spend on other aspects (everything you've listed), so it can be blamed for everything wrong with this game. Just saying.

[Draining Dragon]

I don't think they can hear you over the sound of all the "Game of the Year" awards they won.

This is part of the problem. Why make an excellent, original game when a mediocre, generic one will do?

[wolfhowwl]

Okay, what other engine should they have used?

[Realmzmaster]

It would not matter what engine Bioware used if (just like Frostbite 3) they had to learn the engine and its capabilities.

 

Yes, the use of Frostbite saves on development cost, but it also gives Bioware direct support from the makers of that engine (Since EA owns DICE). Any improvements that Bioware (or any other studio using Frostbite) feeds back into the engine and can be used by the other studios which helps with the development of future products across EA's game line. That is simply good business practice.

 

Also it does not matter what engine is used if the design choices remain the same. Some gamers would still be unhappy with the final product.

 

The only other way would be to used the same engine (Lycium) that powered DA2. That engine was simply a revamped Eclipse  engine which powered DAO except gamers had major complaints about the limitations and aging of those engines.

 

The only other engine Bioware had experience with was the Unreal engine that powered the Mass Effect trilogy. I do remember the DA team having any experience with the Unreal engine. In fact the only rpg (outside of Mass Effect and MMORPGs) that the Unreal engine was used for was the Deus Ex series (which are action rpgs).

 

So what engine could the Bioware team have used that would not requirement a major investment in learning the capabilities of the engine and eat into development costs?

 

. 

[katokires]

Okay, what other engine should they have used?

They should have developed one specifically for their new generation of RPG since I doubt it is the last Bioware RPG ever (I wish, this would make the happiest person on earth, but it is almost impossible, however it is not RPG, but could have been with a proper engine, so it is better to say that DA2 was their last RPG). From the moment they abandoned their old engine this should be the only choice. I mean, if they really needed pretty graphics that is, Divinity Original Sin didn't need them to win the heart of RPG players.
It is kinda obvious since there is no other big RPG game using tactical combat or any DAO features, they should have made their own engine for the "next generation of Bioware RPGS", this would be the only way to keep making RPGs (instead of the action game DAI is) and improve the graphics. But they were already going the wrong way, EA just pushed them into the abyss and the giant offspring between a Beholder, a Cthulhu and a Giant Spider, Frostbite 3, fed on their fear to keep them there forever and killing all our hopes, only by destroying Frostbite 3 we can have RPGs again.

[katokires]

It would not matter what engine Bioware used if (just like Frostbite 3) they had to learn the engine and its capabilities.

 

Yes, the use of Frostbite saves on development cost, but it also gives Bioware direct support from the makers of that engine (Since EA owns DICE). Any improvements that Bioware (or any other studio using Frostbite) feeds back into the engine and can be used by the other studios which helps with the development of future products across EA's game line. That is simply good business practice.

 

Also it does not matter what engine is used if the design choices remain the same. Some gamers would still be unhappy with the final product.

 

The only other way would be to used the same engine (Lycium) that powered DA2. That engine was simply a revamped Eclipse  engine which powered DAO except gamers had major complaints about the limitations and aging of those engines.

 

The only other engine Bioware had experience with was the Unreal engine that powered the Mass Effect trilogy. I do remember the DA team having any experience with the Unreal engine. In fact the only rpg (outside of Mass Effect and MMORPGs) that the Unreal engine was used for was the Deus Ex series (which are action rpgs).

 

So what engine could the Bioware team have used that would not requirement a major investment in learning the capabilities of the engine and eat into development costs?

 

. 

Everybody knows that they could use DAO engine forever, it was perfect, it is perfect, it will forever be. You don't need to fix perfection, trying to fix perfection is called SPOILING.

[Wintermist]

Most people here know or feel that Inquisition could be better. And all people who think this are right.

Frosbite was forced upon Inquisition, it was not a development choice.

It was not the best engine to make an epic Bioware RPG, not even close.

It is a HUGE problem, a COLOSSAL obstacle, an EPIC failure.

It was made clear by dev that the engine was a CHALLENGE.

Most of the time they were fighting against the engine to make a RPG since the engine was NOT made for that.

They kept talking about how they had to face the challenges and how they managed to "fight" the engine to do what they wanted.
Now if EA wasn't retarded and didn't force a shooter engine (figure of speech) upon Bioware how much incredibly better would this game be?

People complaining about the lack of tactics and a lot of other stuff should rest assures that either the engine did not support it or that the time that they would spend implementing it was spent to struggle against the forced engine.

DAO was great not only because it had a long development time but also because the engine fit RPG, now even if Inquisition took 2 more years in development game would still be an aberrative chimera of monstrosities since it is all about trying to make gold out of lead.

Programmers should be praised for managing what they did, a miracle indeed. But a useless miracle beause no amount of effort would make this engine fitting for a true RPG.

People need to realize that this game is what it is because it is the result of a titanic struggle against a shitty engine. As much as you liked the result by no means this game would be the way it is if it was developed in a proper engine, an engine made for a Bioware RPG.

All discussions are meaningless when this is not considered. People discuss as if this game was what it was supposed to be, it is not. It is a poor version of a project of something that could perhaps be great if not for Frostbite.
Now you can all go back to pretending this game is what it was supposed to be and argue like it made some kind of sense.
It is like arguing that an abortion is a successful birth. Yes, I'm calling Inquisition an abortion, what can I say? I'm generous today.

 

What problems are you blaming on the graphics engine?

[Ash Wind]

Sorry, but no, frostbite is not the reason for DAI’s shortcomings. Whether you paint in watercolors, or oils, the final product is the result of the vision of the artist most responsible for its inception.

 

Did frostbite employ large, roughly under-utilized areas that were only meaningful because of the mind-numbing fetch quests whose rewards were about as meaningful as pumping sand? Is it frostbite that is responsible for the mindset of it will be cool to go collect a dozen shards and half a dozen mosaics, that have zero to do with the story and have everying thing to do with the purpose of seeing the world we built for you?  No.

 

Was frostbite responsible for a paper thin story that offered the illusion of choice but followed through with equally uninteresting payoffs and even worse rewards? No.

 

Was frostbite responsible for the direction of the story? No.

 

The lead writer of DAO was also the writer of 2 DA novels and DA2 and DAI. DAO and the 2 novels had cohesive stories that brought you from one point to a climax in a compelling way. DA2’s story, if you could even call it that, was a disjointed mess. It was less a story and more a collection of 4 short stories that had little cohesiveness other than they happened to the same character at approximately the same time in roughly the same place.

 

Did frostbite cause this lead writer to suddenly lose the ability to write a compelling story? No.

 

Did frostbite cause that same writer to lose the ability to write a villain? Cory’s highpoint comes at the end of the first act, the destruction of Haven, after which he becomes a punch line, the fault of the game engine? Writers have bosses, who direct how things will be, so did the writers lose the ability to write? No.

 

And even weaker and thin was the main story of DAI, again, not something that can be blamed on the game engine.

 

Sure, if the only thing wrong with DAI were game mechanics, you can point the blame at the game engine, but DAI’s flaws go so far beyond game mechanics. At some point, whether its BW or EA, you have to look at the people who are making the big decisions. Period. IMHO, Frostbite is but a tool… how it was used is the bigger issue.

 

Ultimately, I enjoyed DAI, but there are serious flaws despite that. It would not have been my GOTY.

[Realmzmaster]

So Bioware/EA should invest money in making a new engine that would require years to make. Then design all the assets to make the game. So the release date for DAI would have been what? 2017? 2018?

 

Yeah that would make real economical sense, especially since EA owns an engine that Bioware could adapt thereby reducing the development cost and time.

[Realmzmaster]

Everybody knows that they could use DAO engine forever, it was perfect, it is perfect, it will forever be. You don't need to fix perfection, trying to fix perfection is called SPOILING.

 

The DAO engine was not perfect. If any engine could claim that title it would have been the Infinity engine and that was far from perfect. The DAO engine was showing its age.

[TaHol]

OP is my hero! I agree like 10000%.

 

[wolfhowwl]

Everybody knows that they could use DAO engine forever, it was perfect, it is perfect, it will forever be. You don't need to fix perfection, trying to fix perfection is called SPOILING.

 

LOL!

[blahblahblah]

Everybody knows that they could use DAO engine forever, it was perfect, it is perfect, it will forever be. You don't need to fix perfection, trying to fix perfection is called SPOILING.

LOL, you're trolling.

[Eelectrica]

Everybody knows that they could use DAO engine forever, it was perfect, it is perfect, it will forever be. You don't need to fix perfection, trying to fix perfection is called SPOILING.

DAO is one of my all time favorite games, but that engine is done.
It did well to last as long as it did from where it evolved from.

In terms of combat they still have work to do, too many issues to mention on mobile, but no guarantees a new BioWare developed engine wouldn't run into the same problems. Larian are still sorting issues out and to their credit they're still updating D:OS.

A lot of people have said it Inquisition reminds them of BG, as someone who recently completed a BGEE play through I see it. If the next DA game can make the same leap as what BG2 did from BG it could still be worth it.

[coldflame]

If they didn't get bought by EA,you would not get any DA sequels or ME Trilogy.

 

No big lost. DA and ME ain't the only game franchises around you know.

[Auztin]

No big lost. DA and ME ain't the only game franchises around you know.

I would not like it.

I would have no problem with that. I could still have DA:O and ME1 to play. And I wouldn't have wasted money on those 3 failures - DA2, ME2 and on failed TORTANIC.

You would not have any DLC for DA:O or a ME1 dummy.

[Indariel]

Sorry, but no, frostbite is not the reason for DAI’s shortcomings. Whether you paint in watercolors, or oils, the final product is the result of the vision of the artist most responsible for its inception.

 

Did frostbite employ large, roughly under-utilized areas that were only meaningful because of the mind-numbing fetch quests whose rewards were about as meaningful as pumping sand? Is it frostbite that is responsible for the mindset of it will be cool to go collect a dozen shards and half a dozen mosaics, that have zero to do with the story and have everying thing to do with the purpose of seeing the world we built for you?  No.

 

Was frostbite responsible for a paper thin story that offered the illusion of choice but followed through with equally uninteresting payoffs and even worse rewards? No.

 

Was frostbite responsible for the direction of the story? No.

 

The lead writer of DAO was also the writer of 2 DA novels and DA2 and DAI. DAO and the 2 novels had cohesive stories that brought you from one point to a climax in a compelling way. DA2’s story, if you could even call it that, was a disjointed mess. It was less a story and more a collection of 4 short stories that had little cohesiveness other than they happened to the same character at approximately the same time in roughly the same place.

 

Did frostbite cause this lead writer to suddenly lose the ability to write a compelling story? No.

 

Did frostbite cause that same writer to lose the ability to write a villain? Cory’s highpoint comes at the end of the first act, the destruction of Haven, after which he becomes a punch line, the fault of the game engine? Writers have bosses, who direct how things will be, so did the writers lose the ability to write? No.

 

And even weaker and thin was the main story of DAI, again, not something that can be blamed on the game engine.

 

Sure, if the only thing wrong with DAI were game mechanics, you can point the blame at the game engine, but DAI’s flaws go so far beyond game mechanics. At some point, whether its BW or EA, you have to look at the people who are making the big decisions. Period. IMHO, Frostbite is but a tool… how it was used is the bigger issue.

 

Ultimately, I enjoyed DAI, but there are serious flaws despite that. It would not have been my GOTY.

 

The Frostbite engine in it's current state is terrible. It's poorly optimized, has major issues with factory over clocked video cards (in case of DA:I especially Nvdia Cards of the x60 series)  and suffers from system resource mismanagement issues. It's is no wonder that DA:I inherited so many of BF4 issues (like the Direct X crashing which I remember in BF4 as not being resolved at all).