137 réponses à ce sujet

[Rekkampum]

More vitaars? How about a single helmet or set of armor? The Qunari really got the shaft in the gear department.

 

Qunari don't wear helmets. They use Vitaar.

[Han Shot First]

Qunari don't wear helmets. They use Vitaar.

 

They wear helmets as well. The Iron Bull can get one after the mission where you decide whether or not to sacrifice the Chargers.

[In Exile]

How did you read what I wrote but not understand any of it? The announcement of the beta never separated the BE from the patch because it conflated them both as part of the beta. Nowhere did they say the two were separate, nor did they do anything to suggest they might be. It's not just understandable to take it the way most people took it, it's the way most people took it. And considering they've now said they pushed back the BE because of beta feedback it's pretty darn clear the BE was supposed to be part of patch 5.

That's a strange conclusion to reach. The fact that one simultaneously mentions two products does not mean they are related. "Join the ME4 Beta and gain access to the DA4 beta" will confuse absolutely no one because the two are separate things. You have to start from the assumption that the two products ARE related to be confused about their relationship.

Absolutely nothing in the announcement suggested that the Patch 5 beta would include the BE. It only said they were tested together.

It's not unreasonable per set to think they might be released together, as I said. But actually saying Bioware misled you into thinking it is ridiculous.

[Rekkampum]

They wear helmets as well. The Iron Bull can get one after the mission where you decide whether or not to sacrifice the Chargers.

 

That's a unique Qunari helm, not stock armor and lore says they prefer to use Vitaar, which serve the same purpose by hardening the skin. Even Tal-Vashoth prefer it. It's also difficult to make armor that would accommodate the different horn variations players can use for their Qunari, so more Vitaar make sense from a design perspective.

 

EDIT: More Qunari-themed weapons and other gear would be awesome though. The Arishok's sword sucked.

[Steppenwolf]

That's a strange conclusion to reach. The fact that one simultaneously mentions two products does not mean they are related. "Join the ME4 Beta and gain access to the DA4 beta" will confuse absolutely no one because the two are separate things. You have to start from the assumption that the two products ARE related to be confused about their relationship.

Absolutely absurd. Do you not see how ridiculous you're being?

Absolutely nothing in the announcement suggested that the Patch 5 beta would include the BE. It only said they were tested together.

Look, you can't even keep these nuances straight and you're the one saying it wasn't misleading.

It's not unreasonable per set to think they might be released together, as I said. But actually saying Bioware misled you into thinking it is ridiculous.

I think the BE was indeed supposed to be part of the patch but was delayed and most people who read the announcement took it mean the BE was part of patch 5, not just the beta for the patch. People were misled. That is undeniable. Whether it was intentional is an entirely different conversation and one that I'm not a part of.

[Steppenwolf]

That's a unique Qunari helm, not stock armor and lore says they prefer to use Vitaar, which serve the same purpose by hardening the skin. Even Tal-Vashoth prefer it. It's also difficult to make armor that would accommodate the different horn variations players can use for their Qunari, so more Vitaar make sense from a design perspective.
 
EDIT: More Qunari-themed weapons and other gear would be awesome though. The Arishok's sword sucked.

Why can't Kossith Inquisitors have a unique helm? It could just be a metal mask that straps around the back of the head. Hell, make it look like a dragon's maw and the horns would look great with it.

[Rekkampum]

Why can't Kossith Inquisitors have a unique helm? It could just be a metal mask that straps around the back of the head. Hell, make it look like a dragon's maw and the horns would look great with it.

 

Qunari aren't Kossith. But a unique mask - part of a side quest - would be nice.

[Steppenwolf]

Qunari aren't Kossith. But a unique mask - part of a side quest - would be nice.

Kossith are the big horned people, which the Inquisitor is if you choose that race. The Inquisitor is not Qunari since s/he doesn't follow the Qun.

[Rekkampum]

Kossith are the big horned people, which the Inquisitor is if you choose that race. The Inquisitor is not Qunari since s/he doesn't follow the Qun.

 

No, they aren't. The Qunari left the area where the Kossith were ages ago. The Inquisitor is a Tal-Vashoth, a name for Qunari who reject the Qun.

[Han Shot First]

It is also implied that the Kossith were something different than the Qunari. The Qunari changed or evolved somehow. 

 

Speculation ahoy.

[Rekkampum]

It is also implied that the Kossith were something different than the Qunari. The Qunari changed or evolved somehow. 

 

Speculation ahoy.

 

*inserts theory about dragon blood, tamassrans, and Corypheus calling them a "mistake"*

[Sifr]

Kossith are the big horned people, which the Inquisitor is if you choose that race. The Inquisitor is not Qunari since s/he doesn't follow the Qun.

 

Nope, we're given a pretty thorough breakdown in Inquisition via the codex and talking to Iron Bull, regarding this issue.

 

The Kossith is the name of the society that predated the Qun.

The Qunari is the name of the society that follows the Qun.

The Tal-Vashoth is the name of those who have left and rejected the Qun.

The Vashoth is the name of those born outside the Qun and who never followed it.

 

The Inquisitor is a Vashoth.

[Rekkampum]

Nope, we're given a pretty thorough breakdown in Inquisition via the codex and talking to Iron Bull, regarding this issue.

 

The Kossith is the name of the society that predated the Qun.

The Qunari is the name of the society that follows the Qun.

The Tal-Vashoth is the name of those who have left and rejected the Qun.

The Vashoth is the name of those born outside the Qun and who never followed it.

 

The Inquisitor is a Vashoth.

 

I always found it odd that the game never makes that distinction. EDIT: The background for the Qunari Inquisitor does say that they rejected the Qun though.

[Sifr]

I always found it odd that the game never makes that distinction. EDIT: The background for the Qunari Inquisitor does say that they rejected the Qun though.

 

Yeah, that always bothered me that we're listed in the background info as Tal-Vashoth and said to have rejected the Qun, whereas the actual codex and our dialogue reveals we're Vashoth and have never been followed it at all?

 

Although I suppose both can be handwaved, that we're "Tal-Vashoth" because we're part of a Tal-Vashoth mercenary band, while our "rejection" of the Qun is simply because of our ignorance of the philosophy, as well as how we've never bothered to seek out the Qunari to join or learn their ways?

 

When Varric asks if we're "Tal-Vashoth", one of our options is to reply that it's a "good guess", neither confirming nor denying it? I suppose that Adaar is so used to people assuming they either follow the Qun or are one of the rebels, they don't both correcting anyone anymore?

[Steppenwolf]

No, they aren't. The Qunari left the area where the Kossith were ages ago. The Inquisitor is a Tal-Vashoth, a name for Qunari who reject the Qun.

It is also implied that the Kossith were something different than the Qunari. The Qunari changed or evolved somehow. 
 
Speculation ahoy.

Nope, we're given a pretty thorough breakdown in Inquisition via the codex and talking to Iron Bull, regarding this issue.
 
The Kossith is the name of the society that predated the Qun.
The Qunari is the name of the society that follows the Qun.
The Tal-Vashoth is the name of those who have left and rejected the Qun.
The Vashoth is the name of those born outside the Qun and who never followed it.
 
The Inquisitor is a Vashoth.

Qunari isn't a race, it's a religious descriptor, like Muslim. Vashoth isn't a race, it's a Qunari word. Kossith is the race of big horned people. Speculation about Qunari Kossith and the Kossith still in their homeland being different is still just that: speculation.

[Rekkampum]

Yeah, that always bothered me that we're listed in the background info as Tal-Vashoth and said to have rejected the Qun, whereas the actual codex and our dialogue reveals we're Vashoth and have never been followed it at all?

 

Although I suppose both can be handwaved, that we're "Tal-Vashoth" because we're part of a Tal-Vashoth mercenary band, while our "rejection" of the Qun is simply because of our ignorance of the philosophy, as well as how we've never bothered to seek out the Qunari to join or learn their ways?

 

When Varric asks if we're "Tal-Vashoth", one of our options is to reply that it's a "good guess", neither confirming nor denying it? I suppose that Adaar is so used to people assuming they either follow the Qun or are one of the rebels, they don't both correcting anyone anymore?

 

Yeah, that discrepancy is something I found weird myself. I typically either RP as a Vashoth or Tal-Vashoth. I hardly even take the default bio seriously beyond that now, esp since we can edit our Inquisitor's origin in the Keep.

[katokires]

Kossith. Qunari is the name of a mistake that Bioware staff did in Thedas so that we can ignore them, at least until a game lets us slay them all like the plague they are, perhaps the whole purpose of the franchise is to hate the Qunari until we exterminate them, then the Maker thanks us, forgive all our sins, removes the blights and taints and we will all go live in the Golden City happily ever after.

I used to think I would never play DA4 but now I thought of a way to go back to the franchise: Letting us torture without mercy the Qunaris for 100 hours and being rewarded for doing so. Could be good. The only way to get better is by letting us name them with Bioware developers names. BEST GAME EVER.

[Rekkampum]

Qunari isn't a race, it's a religious descriptor, like Muslim. Vashoth isn't a race, it's a Qunari word. Kossith is the race of big horned people. Speculation about Qunari Kossith and the Kossith still in their homeland being different is still just that: speculation.

 

The only thing known about the Kossith is that is what the society was called prior to the Qun. Whether this referred to a single race or a society has not been established. What we do know, however, is that the people who split from the Kossith after the Qun was introduced are called Qunari and consider themselves such. It's even implied that the Kossith were also more than just a single race by a codex entry, not to mention IB's commentary.

 

No one in that world outside of academia(and even this is rare) even uses the term "Kossith" when referring to the Qunari. Not even the Tamassrans. Your insistence on using that term in light of this is the only speculation being offered.

[Steppenwolf]

The only thing known about the Kossith is that is what the society was called prior to the Qun. Whether this referred to a single race or a society has not been established. What we do know, however, is that the people who split from the Kossith after the Qun was introduced are called Qunari and consider themselves such. It's even implied that the Kossith were also more than just a single race by a codex entry, not to mention IB's commentary.
 
No one in that world outside of academia(and even this is rare) even uses the term "Kossith" when referring to the Qunari. Not even the Tamassrans. Your insistence on using that term in light of this is the only speculation being offered.

Wrong. The devs refer to them as Kossith. David Gaider even said that he regrets telling us that their race is called Kossith because it adds to the confusion and isn't addressed properly in the games. They may have decided to make the Kossith more like the Protheans at some point, but it is a confirmed fact that the race of horned people from the North are called Kossith.

[DAO MAdhatter]

The only thing known about the Kossith is that is what the society was called prior to the Qun. Whether this referred to a single race or a society has not been established. What we do know, however, is that the people who split from the Kossith after the Qun was introduced are called Qunari and consider themselves such. It's even implied that the Kossith were also more than just a single race by a codex entry, not to mention IB's commentary.

No one in that world outside of academia(and even this is rare) even uses the term "Kossith" when referring to the Qunari. Not even the Tamassrans. Your insistence on using that term in light of this is the only speculation being offered.

The games lore assumes the big horned dudes are called qunari & so does everyone in real life so Im going to assume also that they are called Qunari.

[Sifr]

Qunari isn't a race, it's a religious descriptor, like Muslim. Vashoth isn't a race, it's a Qunari word. Kossith is the race of big horned people. Speculation about Qunari Kossith and the Kossith still in their homeland being different is still just that: speculation.

 

Kossith is not the race's name, Bull makes this point very clear in the game itself.

 

The term Kossith is used to refer to the society that predated the Qun, but it never was used as a name for the race itself. It's analogous to how the various Alamarri tribes banded together to become modern Ferelden, but a Fereldan does not think of themselves as "Alamarri".

 

I didn't say that Vashoth was a race, I said that it's the term used by those who were not born under the Qun and how they self-identify themselves? The Vashoth don't use the term to describe their race, nor do they even know what the race they belong to is actually called, hence why Adaar asks Bull this exact question of him? (And which he replies by pointing out they don't have a name for their race).

[Steppenwolf]

Kossith is not the race's name, Bull makes this point very clear in the game itself.

Sten made up all kinds of crap and Bull's real name literally means liar.
 

The term Kossith is used to refer to the society that predated the Qun, but it never was used as a name for the race itself.

Tell that to the devs. They would surely be surprised to learn that you know more about the lore than they do.

[Sifr]

Wrong. The devs refer to them as Kossith. David Gaider even said that he regrets telling us that their race is called Kossith because it adds to the confusion and isn't addressed properly in the games. They may have decided to make the Kossith more like the Protheans at some point, but it is a confirmed fact that the race of horned people from the North are called Kossith.

 

The devs refer to them as Qunari and hate it when people use Kossith... as seen here, and here.

 

Gaider wrote a long tumblr blog about it, but unfortunately he deleted his tumblr a few months ago and I don't know if anyone's archived it?

[Sifr]

Sten made up all kinds of crap and Bull's real name literally means liar.

 

Exactly what did Sten lie about?

 

If you mean when he pointed out that women can't be warriors, that's because the context is lost in translation between the two cultures. Sten accepts that the Warden is a warrior, he just doesn't understand why they think they are a woman... because a woman cannot be a warrior under the Qun, as the antaam (the military) is an entirely male role?

 

As he says, a woman can be a shopkeeper, artisan or a priest. This is why he has no problem with Leliana fighting, because she calls herself a priest and under the Qun, the priesthood are allowed to kick arse? If Leliana called herself a warrior, he'd show the same confusion?

 

As for Bull, while his job and name require him to lie, would he feel the need to lie about this? It's a simple question and not exactly betraying any vital secrets about the Qunari simply to acknowledge that there is a name, even if no-one uses it? He's very emphatic that Kossith however is not it?

 

Tell that to the devs. They would surely be surprised to learn that you know more about the lore than they do.

 

Well, I'd turn that around and ask how you're able to speak for the devs as their voice on the matter? I've provided at least two examples from Gaider and Kirby on the subject where they say it's wrong, and here's a third where Gaider states that Qunari is the blanket term for the race, not Kossith.

 

(I'll admit, that the thread linked to shows I used to be on the pro-Kossith camp, arguing that it'd be a useful identifier since we don't know the name of the race, but I later conceded that both are inaccurate regardless, so Qunari is probably the easier term?)

[Rekkampum]

Exactly what did Sten lie about?

 

If you mean when he pointed out that women can't be warriors, that's because the context is lost in translation between the two cultures. Sten accepts that the Warden is a warrior, he just doesn't understand why they think they are a woman... because a woman cannot be a warrior under the Qun, as the antaam (the military) is an entirely male role?

 

As he says, a woman can be a shopkeeper, artisan or a priest. This is why he has no problem with Leliana fighting, because she calls herself a priest and under the Qun, the priesthood are allowed to kick arse? If Leliana called herself a warrior, he'd show the same confusion?

 

As for Bull, while his job and name require him to lie, would he feel the need to lie about this? It's a simple question and not exactly betraying any vital secrets about the Qunari simply to acknowledge that there is a name, even if no-one uses it? He's very emphatic that Kossith however is not it?

 

 

Well, I'd turn that around and ask how you're able to speak for the devs as their voice on the matter? I've provided at least two examples from Gaider and Kirby on the subject where they say it's wrong, and here's a third where Gaider states that Qunari is the blanket term for the race, not Kossith.

 

Yeah, this got so circular. People just hate to accept evidence.

 

EDIT: I think it would probably be most accurate to say the Qunari descend from the Kossith. Thus they are naturally related to the Kossith to some extent while remaining a distinct ethnic group.