137 réponses à ce sujet

[Sunnie]

An entire page of posts off-topic...nice!

 

Back on topic....

 

While the Patch 5 Beta announcement blog entry doesn't say that the BE would be part of the release, I can see how people would expect it with the issues of entitlement that a lot of people have. I didn't expect for one second that it would be released with Patch 5 from the Beta entry, however, the entry in the Patch 5 release blog pretty much confirms that they had planned on it going out with Patch 5 originally. Since it had some issues, I am glad they pulled it, any issues it has hitting the public en-mass would just cause more of a riot over more bugs.

[Rekkampum]

An entire page of posts off-topic...nice!

 

Back on topic....

 

While the Patch 5 Beta announcement blog entry doesn't say that the BE would be part of the release, I can see how people would expect it with the issues of entitlement that a lot of people have. I didn't expect for one second that it would be released with Patch 5 from the Beta entry, however, the entry in the Patch 5 release blog pretty much confirms that they had planned on it going out with Patch 5 originally. Since it had some issues, I am glad they

pulled it, any issues it has hitting the public en-mass would just cause more of a riot over more bugs.

 

I was confused by the blog myself, but I thought it would be released separately also.

[Sifr]

Yeah, this got so circular. People just hate to accept evidence.

 

EDIT: I think it would probably be most accurate to say the Qunari descend from the Kossith. Thus they are naturally related to the Kossith to some extent while remaining a distinct ethnic group.

 

Yeah, while I still wish we had an actual name simply so we could finally end the pedantic arguments, there's probably no point?

 

The pro-Kossith camp reminds me of the stories of Japanese soldiers from WW2 who spent over thirty years hiding in remote areas, unwilling to accept that the war had ended with Japan unconditionally surrendering, despite all the evidence to the contrary that was presented to them over the years? There's only so much that Word of God can do before people begin to claim Death of the Author?

 

I think that's your definition is probably a good way to look at it. After all, there's no denying that the Qunari, Tal-Vashoth and Vashoth descend from the Kossith, but the only dispute is over the name they used for themselves, if they even had one at all?

 

Another way to look at Vashoth is that of someone who is a second (or more) generation immigrant, who were not born into the same country or society that they might descend from? Likewise, a Tal-Vashoth is somewhat analogous to an Ex-Pat, who's chosen to leave their homeland or society for whatever reason to live elsewhere?

 

Comparing a Vashoth to a Qunari, is probably the same as if you compared a Qunari to the Kossith. They've been seperated by the generations so long, that little knowledge of the original culture remains to them and that their shared bloodline is probably all that ties them together?

 

And I agree, we've gone way off-topic, I suspect any more and Xenon will sic Thaddeus on us!

 

[Rekkampum]

Yeah, while I still wish we had an actual name simply so we could finally end the pedantic arguments, there's probably no point?

 

The pro-Kossith camp reminds me of the stories of Japanese soldiers from WW2 who spent over thirty years hiding in remote areas, unwilling to accept that the war had ended with Japan unconditionally surrendering, despite all the evidence to the contrary that was presented to them over the years? There's only so much that Word of God can do before people begin to claim Death of the Author?

 

I think that's your definition is probably a good way to look at it. After all, there's no denying that the Qunari, Tal-Vashoth and Vashoth descend from the Kossith, but the only dispute is over the name they used for themselves, if they even had one at all?

 

Another way to look at Vashoth is that of someone who is a second (or more) generation immigrant, who were not born into the same country or society that they might descend from? Likewise, a Tal-Vashoth is somewhat analogous to an Ex-Pat, who's chosen to leave their homeland or society for whatever reason to live elsewhere?

 

Comparing a Vashoth to a Qunari, is probably the same as if you compared a Qunari to the Kossith. They've been seperated by the generations so long, that little knowledge of the original culture remains to them and that their shared bloodline is probably all that ties them together?

 

And I agree, we've gone way off-topic, I suspect any more and Xenon will sic Thaddeus on us!

 

 

When I get my likes back, I'll give this post one. But yes, in the event that does happen, we can simply say we did it for the Qun.

 

But I am dying to see what they put into the BE. Now I won't have to start a new game - thereby adding yet another person to the Keep I'm not using - just to get my Qunari's face just right. They're so hard to do without making them look like beefed up humans.

[Steppenwolf]

The devs refer to them as Qunari and hate it when people use Kossith... as seen here, and here.
 
Gaider wrote a long tumblr blog about it, but unfortunately he deleted his tumblr a few months ago and I don't know if anyone's archived it?

Nothing the devs have said refutes Kossith being name of the race and Gaider is the one who said that the Dragon Age lore bible refers to them as Kossith. It wasn't until much later that they started complaining about players using the term, and for insanely pedantic reasons. "It's hardly known to anyone in Thedas" and "Qunari don't think of themselves as Kossith" are not a good reasons to not use the word Kossith outside of the game when it's perfectly applicable. The horned people who follow the Qun are Kossith just like Christians are humans. Again, Qunari is not a race. The Qun is a philosophy, not a race. That the followers of the Qun are extremely rigid in their belief that the Qun becomes them is entirely irrelevant. 

[Sifr]

Nothing the devs have said refutes Kossith being name of the race and Gaider is the one who said that the Dragon Age lore bible refers to them as Kossith. It wasn't until much later that they started complaining about players using the term, and for insanely pedantic reasons. "It's hardly known to anyone in Thedas" and "Qunari don't think of themselves as Kossith" are not a good reasons to not use the word Kossith outside of the game when it's perfectly applicable. The horned people who follow the Qun are Kossith just like Christians are humans. Again, Qunari is not a race. The Qun is a philosophy, not a race. That the followers of the Qun are extremely rigid in their belief that the Qun becomes them is entirely irrelevant. 

 

Odd, because they made it very clear repeatedly in this thread that Kossith is wrong... unless Kirby and Gaider don't count?

 

Again, no-one has said that the Qunari, Tal-Vashoth, Vashoth are a race, they are a society. The same is true of the Kossith, they are a pre-Qun society, not a race? The race has no name, as we've been told many times by the developers?

 

Death of the Author indeed...?

 

 

(And we should start a new thread to discuss this, since the naming controvery is a tad off-topic here?)

[leaguer of one]

They wear helmets as well. The Iron Bull can get one after the mission where you decide whether or not to sacrifice the Chargers.

That's a face mask.

[Steppenwolf]

Funny, because they made it very clear repeatedly in this thread that Kossith is wrong... but I suppose Kirby and Gaider don't count?

 

Again, no-one has said that the Qunari, Tal-Vashoth, Vashoth are a race, they are a society. The same is true of the Kossith, they are a pre-Qun society, not a race? The race has no name, as we've been told many times by the developers?

 

Death of the Author indeed...

 

 

(And we should start a new thread to discuss this, since the naming controvery is a tad off-topic here?)

 

Like I said, the head writer said the race was Kossith then said we shouldn't use the word at a later date. This point of "maybe it was just the name of the culture" is nonsense because it was brought up much later and they won't even commit to it. At some point they decided to change what was already established and they won't just admit that. Gaider said the race is Kossith and that's what the lore bible said so I defer to that. These more recent nuances that they won't or can't explain don't change what they already explained. Until they explicitly show that the Kossith are not the horned people or that the Kossith were like the Protheans there's no reason to not refer to the race as Kossith. The quote about calling a Bostonian a ****** sapien just illustrates my point that they are Kossith and the writers are just being needlessly pedantic about it now.

 

 

EDIT: the filter is blocking out the obvious word that comes before sapien. WTF?

[Rekkampum]

Odd, because they made it very clear repeatedly in this thread that Kossith is wrong... unless Kirby and Gaider don't count?

 

Again, no-one has said that the Qunari, Tal-Vashoth, Vashoth are a race, they are a society. The same is true of the Kossith, they are a pre-Qun society, not a race? The race has no name, as we've been told many times by the developers?

 

Death of the Author indeed...?

 

 

(And we should start a new thread to discuss this, since the naming controvery is a tad off-topic here?)

 

That would be best.

 

Also, in b4 the lock.

[Sunnie]

I tried to get it back on-topic, thread death imminent.

[Steppenwolf]

I tried to get it back on-topic, thread death imminent.

 

What is dead may never die.

[Sifr]

Like I said, the head writer said the race was Kossith then said we shouldn't use the word at a later date. This point of "maybe it was just the name of the culture" is nonsense because it was brought up much later and they won't even commit to it. At some point they decided to change what was already established and they won't just admit that. Gaider said the race is Kossith and that's what the lore bible said so I defer to that. These more recent nuances that they won't or can't explain don't change what they already explained. Until they explicitly show that the Kossith are not the horned people or that the Kossith were like the Protheans there's no reason to not refer to the race as Kossith. The quote about calling a Bostonian a ****** sapien just illustrates my point that they are Kossith and the writers are just being needlessly pedantic about it now.

 

If by the lore bible you mean WoT which does use the term Kossith, it's worth noting that it's already required a second edition of corrections for various mistakes here and there regarding lore names, timelines and minutiae, so it's by no means that accurate of a source either or exempt from the odd bit of fudging by the writers? Especially since it freely acknowledges in the special thanks section that the book consists of lore that was "mined" from 8 years of notes written by a bunch of people, too numerous that it's impossible to figure out who came up with what?

 

Your argument that we should defer to something that the same writer and many others later chose to refute and call inaccurate, is somewhat akin to saying that we should follow Origins and thus conclude that Alistair is not Fiona's child because they told us it was Goldanna's mother, that all Qunari don't have horns because Sten and none of the other Qunari did, or that we should call it the Tevinter Empire rather than Imperium because Alistair did that one time?

 

And yeah, lets back on topic before this thread get locked or Golems get sicced on us by a cranky, three hundred years old, living corpse?

 

[Steppenwolf]

If by the lore bible you mean WoT

No, that's a published book. A lore bible is the collection of background and lore details that original IP makers create and use to keep their world consistent. They're pretty much never published as they contain all sorts of info that may never be used and generally are not designed to be consumed by the general public. Sometimes they're just filing cabinets full of journals, scraps of paper, doodles and junk.
 

Your argument that we should defer to something that the same writer and many others later chose to refute and call inaccurate, is somewhat akin to saying that we should follow Origins and thus conclude that Alistair is not Fiona's child because they told us it was Goldanna's mother, that all Qunari don't have horns because Sten and none of the other Qunari did, or that we should call it the Tevinter Empire rather than Imperium because Alistair did that one time?

When they call the term inaccurate they can't even explain why. Calling a horned, grey giant a Kossith is like calling a Bostonian a human? Ehh... Maybe Kossith refers to a culture or an amalgam of races that fall under one umbrella, like the Protheans... But no one will commit to that being the case.

There's no reason not to call the race of horned giants Kossith because the writers can't even give us any reasons not to besides "stop, that might be wrong if we decide to change it later."