101 réponses à ce sujet

[MaxQuartiroli]

I liked it based on the idea that it was one of the few things where your PC didn't have total control. Certain elements can definitely sway the outcome, but the end result falls upon the group of Chantry people making that decision. Which is how it should be, I think, particularly since my Lavellan was very anti chantry (like why would they even listen to her? )

 

It also just feels more realistic to me. There's no reason why my Inquisitor should have the final say regarding a decision like this. So I was alright with it. I wouldn't mind more opportunities to discuss it with in game characters and whatnot, but overall I liked not having full control over something that didn't really matter to my character anyway.

 

You say you like it when you have not the total control which is fine because, like someone said, it's not fun to be always Jesus in our games. But are you also fine when you are totally unaware of what are you doing? There is a small but (imho) important difference between these two things.

 

Also. Don't you feel strange when you find that you supported someone which you dislike (or disagree with) and basically the game tells you that you follow her same behaviours when you don't feel at all like that? Like when I ended the game with Vivienne as divine and it seemed to me that the game was saying me "Ah you just acted like her and share her same thoughts" which is incredibly untrue. So, this just left me with two possibilities: something is wrong, either with me or with the game

 

But I would feel the same also if I ended as Leliana as divine. My ideal divine would be Cassandra, if I look at the person: pity that she supports ALL the choices that I'd never do!

[Winged Silver]

You say you like when you have not the total control which is fine because, like someone said, it's not fun to be always Jesus in our games But you are also fine when you are totally unaware of what are you doing? There is a small but (imho) important difference between these two things.

 

Also. Don't you feel strange when you find that you supported someone which you dislike (or disagree with) and basically the game tells you that you follow her same behaviours when you don't feel at all like that? Like when I ended the game with Vivienne as divine and it seemed to me that the game was saying me "Ah you just acted like her and share her same thoughts" which is incredibly untrue. So, this just left me with two possibilities: something is wrong, either with me or with the game

 

But I would feel the same also if I ended as Leliana as divine. My ideal divine would be Cassandra, if I look at the person: pity that she supports ALL the choices that I'd never do!

 

I see what you are saying. I hadn't really thought about it. Then again, I wasn't overly surprised when I learned that my decisions would have an effect on who became Divine. It's a mechanic we've seen before (though that doesn't necessarily mean that Bioware couldn't have made it a bit more clear to those who haven't spent way too many hours on their games XD). 

 

In regards to what you're saying about sharing world views with someone you're not really fond of....I would say that Bioware could perhaps use a bit more nuance? I personally found Leliana a little too...well, almost naive in her ideas for how the Chantry should be run. I liked her overall idea, but the execution she seemed to be describing felt lacking. Nevertheless, I ended up having Leliana be my Divine both times, though I was trying for someone else the second time I think if they gave us the option to describe why our characters are making the decisions they are making, that might've helped. There weren't very many places to say "Hey mages need rights, but yeah I agree they're pretty dangerous". Occasionally, the game forced you to be black/white about it, which I wasn't crazy about. 

[Asdrubael Vect]

The whole new divine of Orlais Chantry was one of the worst things what bioware do in game as with forced advisors and forced "Herald of Andraste"

 

The problems with who they force us to have in our main circle even if we never wanted those peoples and members of those groups, and even we was a pure enemies with them in previous games, kill or fight against them...and DAI show us a middle finger for many our choices in DAO and DA2 

 

Suport Orlais Chantry and give them new Divine its wrong for who is never support Orlais Templars, Chantry and perfectly know who he will never put in power, unfortunaly we not have a option to prevent rising a new Divine in Orlais Chantry....and as we know it was a option for Inquisitior to become a Divine himself what devs are cut...

 

i think it would be better to have those "prevent Orlais Chantry from restoring their powers" or "Inquisitor become a Divine" option because at least we know what we are done and can possibly done according to our previous actions

[robertmarilyn]

I'm ok with it since I have been able to make a softened Leliana the divine in all my games. And I can successfully shut Viv out from being divine, in all my games. 

[Dai Grepher]

I'm ok with it since I have been able to make a softened Leliana the divine in all my games. And I can successfully shut Viv out from being divine, in all my games. 

 

Not hard to do. Vivienne is the most difficult candidate to make Divine. The odds are stacked against her. I believe failing to support her as Divine on the Chore Table ensures her loss.

[Saphiron123]

Even if it's not the swaying vote, I wish I had an actual vote. I supported leliana all game but somehow she didn't become divine.

[Forsythia77]

Not hard to do. Vivienne is the most difficult candidate to make Divine. The odds are stacked against her. I believe failing to support her as Divine on the Chore Table ensures her loss.

 

I apparently fail at this. Three games in a row! And the last game I was actively trying for Leliana.

[MaxQuartiroli]

Not hard to do. Vivienne is the most difficult candidate to make Divine. The odds are stacked against her. I believe failing to support her as Divine on the Chore Table ensures her loss.

 

There is no official confirmation but she is believed to be the default choice. And according to those guys who examined the save files it seems that if there is equality between 2 candidates the system choose:

 

Vivienne > Leliana > Cassandra

[turuzzusapatuttu]

There is no official confirmation but she is believed to be the default choice. And according to those guys who examined the save files it seems that if there is equality between 2 candidates the system choose:

 

Vivienne > Leliana > Cassandra

 

Lucky for us, default doesn't mean canon 

[Dai Grepher]

I apparently fail at this. Three games in a row! And the last game I was actively trying for Leliana.

 

Well, legend has it that this is bugged on some games, much like everything else.

[Dai Grepher]

There is no official confirmation but she is believed to be the default choice. And according to those guys who examined the save files it seems that if there is equality between 2 candidates the system choose:

 

Vivienne > Leliana > Cassandra

 

Yes in the case of a tie, even between all three, Viv beats Lily and Cass, and Lily beats Cass. However, the choices that benefit Viv yield only minimal amounts of points, and in some cases grant points to Leliana or Cassandra as well. The Dragon Age wikia, of which I'm a member of under a different name, shows the breakdown of what choices benefit whom and how many points are attributed to each choice.

 

EDIT: Also, any negative amounts to Leliana count as positives. So -5 becomes +5.

[Dai Grepher]

Even if it's not the swaying vote, I wish I had an actual vote. I supported leliana all game but somehow she didn't become divine.

 

The only thing I can think of that would cause this is if negative values aren't recorded in the scorecard. For example, if Viv has +3 and then you make a choice that costs her -10, the score drops to 0 rather than -7. Then if Viv gets +1 from a choice, then her score becomes +1 rather that -6. Or it could be something else going on. The wikia states that sometimes the wrong candidate is selected for as of yet unknown reasons.

[JadeDragon]

While the concept was nice and I liked it the whole my stance on certain issues thing and agreeing with certain people type of thing but there was some parts of it that to me did not make sense. While the mage/templar choices and warden choices as well as who ruled orlais made since because the college of clerics can match up each candidate with the inquisitor's decisions. But if we had a personal conversation with viv or cass how does that effect how the clerics vote? I can understand if throughout the game we talked to a bunch of random clerics here and there as they asked our opinion on certain topics but unless they were spying on us there should not be any reasons me telling viv I want the circle back should make her or cass more likely to become divine when viv is not the one voting. I understand the concept of us choosing our words and stances on certain policies but discussing policies with the candidates is totally different then addressing policies to the voters. They could have had people come to us at skyhold a grand cleric asking us if we would bring back the circle, we give her a answer in front of the nobles and such and that word would get back to the college of clerics as a whole. So to me it was 50/50, quest choices effecting a world outcome yes, war table missions yes, because its publicly addressed how we feel but in private no way. That is like someone saying yes i agree with you in private but never saying they do in public but all of a sudden the public voted for how you felt even though they did not know unless they are mind readers.

[Zatche]

You say you like it when you have not the total control which is fine because, like someone said, it's not fun to be always Jesus in our games. But are you also fine when you are totally unaware of what are you doing? There is a small but (imho) important difference between these two things.

 

I'm totally fine with being unaware of the consequences of my actions. Actually, when I first played DAO, I was under the illusion that I was. I was afraid that a "wrong" decision would bite me in the ass later on, and I liked that. It added more tension to the decisions. And I was disappointed in finding out that, for the most part, I was wrong.

 

Also. Don't you feel strange when you find that you supported someone which you dislike (or disagree with) and basically the game tells you that you follow her same behaviours when you don't feel at all like that? Like when I ended the game with Vivienne as divine and it seemed to me that the game was saying me "Ah you just acted like her and share her same thoughts" which is incredibly untrue. So, this just left me with two possibilities: something is wrong, either with me or with the game 

 

I don't see it that way. That the consequences are indirect of your actions, means they aren't reflective of your character's actual intent. I see it as the Chantry trying to align itself with the Inquisition...with imperfect knowledge of the Inquisitor. In your case, it's not the game that is wrong, it's the Chantry. (Though, apparently the game is wrong is some people's cases as mentioned by Dai Grepher.

 

I'm not sure it makes perfect sense that the Chantry wants to follow the Inquisitor's footsteps, but again, I like the idea that you don't always know all the consequences of your actions. Being able to choose my character's intent has always been more meaningful to me than choosing an outcome.

[Diegonius]

I like the way they did it. Maybe it's because I got all my candidated elected, but I think that I would have liked it anyway.

The mechanism they used to decide who is elected is not only interesting, but also makes sense to me. As leader of the Inquisition, probably the most powerful faction in all Thedas, it is logical that people look at you for guidance (after all, you saved them from Coripheus). However, for certain factions, such as the Chantry, it would be unnaceptable to openly bow to your will. That's why our only chance to consciously and directly influence it is the War Table operation.

Our decissions give the commonfolk a certain perspective about how things are (or might be, to be more precise). For the people of Thedas, specially Chantry mothers, it's easy to think that if you allied with the mages and they bravely fought along you to close the Breach, they may deserve a chance to have more freedom. If you ally with templars, they may think the Order is worth rebuilding, as they saved the world. Therefore, they will try to elect a Divine who shares that ideas. Not because you made them, but because they worked and they saved lifes.

 

In any case, although not knowing the exact consequences of our actions makes the game more realistic. It might be truly frustrating, of course, but so can be real life, and we enjoy it nonetheless.

[In Exile]

I think we almost agree on some things. I also think that it is right that

the sum of your action > the sum of your vocal support,

and I agree when you say that it was time that they chose a more mature way to set some decisions, because the option "I chose candidate X and so be it" is getting really old, and perhaps a bit unrealistic, especially if it's in open contradiction with your behaviors.

Still, I think it needs to be improved. The major problem in my case (let alone for a moment metagaming, subsequent playtroughs and so on) is that for the most part of the game you are totally unaware that you are setting the ground for a matter that towards the end just drops in your hand. And when this happens the result is nearly set and then the game leaves you with the only option to face it or, at worst, with the option to voice your (ininfluent) opinion. Like Abyss108 says this could work really better if they could foreshadow a bit more the "critical" moment of the game and the choices that are important for this subjcet. I am not saying they should tell you "Option to support X" but at least they could give you some small hint.

To be honest I think it would be enough that during one of your first dialogue with Giselle, when you talk about the new divine and she answers you that it will take time before finding a new one it would pop an option to talk about Cassandra/Leliana/Vivienne, obviously as a remote option. And even if we are at the beginning of the game we are talking about the First Enchanter, the Left Hand and the Right Hand, therefore a foreshadowing dialogue about a "remote possibility" to see one of them, one day to become divine, would not be so illogical. Then it could make more sense that you shape the divine choice with your subsequent actions.

I don't think it's a problem you don't know that your choices might influence the Chantry. I think it's realistic. You're told from the start of the game that the surviving Grand Clerics are gathering to elect a new Divine. After Orlais favours you the Chantry - as they always do - begin to want to suck up to you.

But they want to suck up *to who they think you are* which is what makes it so brilliant IMO. They're not your companions. They're a shadow group far removed from anything.

[Monster20862]

I would've liked the option to let the chantry burn to the ground and every person who believed in it to be executed and placed in mass graves. Genocide all the way!

[Fireheart]

I didn't like it mainly because I was blindsided with Vivienne becoming Divine in my first playthrough. I don't hate Vivienne, in fact I'm one of the 0.05% that loves her, but I didn't even know she was eligible. I don't like being duped and blindsided, they gave me the choice to support Cassandra and then just throw it out the window. Later I find out that certain dialogue choices, and things like whether you ally or conscript the mages effects the choice. I wonder now, how exactly I ended up with Vivienne? Everything thing I did seemed to point more to Leliana, but I did not get her. It's been 2 months since that first playthrough, I don't even remember what exactly I chose that first time, so maybe I might've done or said something that pointed toward Vivienne.

 

Also, the choices you make in the game... In my first pt I chose to ally with the mages. I didn't even understand the difference between allying or conscripting them and I still don't. On the templar side it makes more sense, it says "disband the order and make them part of the inquisition, or help them rebuild their numbers while working with the Inquisition". Then I chose to ally with the wardens because the other option was to exile them. I thought exile was the better choice but the game did not tell me how long they would be gone. I was afraid it would be another 200 year exile like what happened with the Wardens in Ferelden. I left Celene on the throne because the game told me nothing about the other two. The game was way too vague during some of the missions, so no, I don't like how it was handled. I'm just sad you couldn't get rid of the Chantry altogether.

[Fireheart]

I've completed the game five times and made subtly different choices in all five play throughs and Vivenne has been Divine 3 times.  Cass once and Leliana once.  I don't mind Viv as Divine in theory but end game in practice  (even if you are besties with her) she is just so ruthless about it. And that bugs me as personally I'm pro-mage freedom.

 

I do have a question - I've only had a war table mission come up once to support someone for Divine (and it was for Vivienne).  What conditions have to be met for the war table missions to come up for Cass or Leliana?  I'd really like to make this play through my cannon one and I am trying to get softened Leliana as my divine. I've already picked free mages so that done.  Have yet to do Adamant or the Winter Palace, but both are on my table and can be done.

I believe it's pretty simple. In convo with them, just tell them you think they'd make a good Divine and that if you're asked, you'll support them. You can get all 3 "Support x" missions at one time, I believe so, as in my game I got both for Leliana and Cassandra, the missions right next to one another.

[DanteYoda]

A few things i hate in real life and in games, Religion and Politics even fake versions do not appeal to me, so honestly this game being full of both.. lets say i wasn't a fan either way, i personally tried to avoid it my whole game but it felt pushed on me from all directions..

 

I didn't care who became divine i hope their next DA has a more interesting theme and less Religion and politics..

[Dai Grepher]

Honestly, I haven't gone out of my way to influence things one way or another. I probably should, but eh, Chantry. Cassandra always gets the big ugly hat in my playthroughs.

 

I do think it's strange that your choices would have ANY bearing whatsoever on who the Chantry would choose for a new Divine. I mean, think about it. How would allying with the Mages make Cassandra look any different? Leliana? Vivienne? It doesn't really make any logical sense why YOUR actions would influence Chantry peeps who are doing the choosing. If they're that interested in what the Inquisitor is doing, maybe the Inquisitor should be the Divine.

 

Same thing with the whole Calpernia/Samson thing. I get why they made the general be different for each side (so they're different?), but yet... I don't.

 

Obviously Coryphymutts knows both of them. Why would he choose one over the other? Why not choose both? Why did there need to be X or Y? Why not X and Y? The mutual exclusivity seems unnecessary here. I dunno, just musing.

 

Allying with mages means Leliana will be more influential over them since she shares their sentiments. This is in contrast to Vivienne who believes the mages should be put back in the Circles. So the Chantry is responding to the world that the Inquisition creates, and they pick the woman best suited to influence those various factions.

[Dai Grepher]

I do have a question - I've only had a war table mission come up once to support someone for Divine (and it was for Vivienne).  What conditions have to be met for the war table missions to come up for Cass or Leliana?  I'd really like to make this play through my cannon one and I am trying to get softened Leliana as my divine. I've already picked free mages so that done.  Have yet to do Adamant or the Winter Palace, but both are on my table and can be done.

 

Cass' option becomes available after you return from the Winter Palace (or maybe Adamant if you do that first. I did the palace before the fortress). Anyway, it's after the scene with the sister who talks to Josephine about the next Divine. After that, go talk to Cassandra. There is a scene with her and Mother Giselle where she says "talk to her". Somewhere in this set of dialogue choices (on the left side of the wheel) there is an option to say something like "I would support you for divine" or whatever. I think this option had a crown symbol to it, which means you need the "Nobility Knowledge" perk.

 

But that is the only way to get the chore table mission to support Cassandra.

 

I don't know how you get Leliana's. I assume it has something to do with talking to her in the rookery and listening to her thoughts on becoming Divine. I would think it requires you to say that you would support her for Divine. Again, I can't confirm this. By the time I had this conversation I already had Support Vivienne on the chore table. Maybe you can't have both on there at the same time (I told Leliana she'd make a good Divine, just to see if her chore table mission would appear. It didn't. I reloaded and said I don't support her).

 

EDIT: The wikia seems to suggest there is no chore table mission to support Leliana. I guess support is given through the dialogue with Leliana.

[Thane4Ever]

Hate it, hate it, hate it.

 

Choosing the next Divine would have made perfect end-game material. The threat has passed and the Inquisition is more influential than ever before. You as the Inquisitor should have had a much more direct involvement in electing a new divine. It should have been it's own quest-line at the very least.

It seemed like a no-brainer that the Divine story line would play out after the main story concluded. But nope, all you do is say "Yeah, I guess maybe candidate X would be pretty cool." And that's it. That's the way to 'choose' the new Divine. 

I didn't hate it, but I do like the idea of having it as a final quest - being present for the vote, a Landsmeet-type situation.

[Monster20862]

It would've been nice if the inquisitor could go into the black city and become a god. Thus, the position of Divine become irrelevant.

[Rawgrim]

I think they could have expanded that bit, to be honest. It felt like a small thing added near the end, when it should have been something huge. Giselle actually seemed to be the best choice, but she kind of "disappears" from the game after you reach Skyhold.

 

Vivienne, Cassandra and Leliana probably won't be in future games except for cameos now. I doubt we will get to bring the divine along as a companion or anything.