101 réponses à ce sujet

[Al Foley]

I liked it.  Again I like it when the world sometimes does not bow to the personal choices of the PC at every turn.  Mass Effect 3 had characters moving around the ship and interacting with one another, as did DA I, and then Inquisitin also had it as an option. But again it makes little sense for the Inquisition to be able to chose the next Divine, directly, they are not a cleric and not apart of the Chantry and thus, it was cool that the game could act independently and did not need your say so.  But on the flip side you could throw the Inquisition's power around and try and influence the decision, and the world you created would influence the decision.  Very neat.  

[MaxQuartiroli]

While the concept was nice and I liked it the whole my stance on certain issues thing and agreeing with certain people type of thing but there was some parts of it that to me did not make sense. While the mage/templar choices and warden choices as well as who ruled orlais made since because the college of clerics can match up each candidate with the inquisitor's decisions. But if we had a personal conversation with viv or cass how does that effect how the clerics vote? I can understand if throughout the game we talked to a bunch of random clerics here and there as they asked our opinion on certain topics but unless they were spying on us there should not be any reasons me telling viv I want the circle back should make her or cass more likely to become divine when viv is not the one voting. I understand the concept of us choosing our words and stances on certain policies but discussing policies with the candidates is totally different then addressing policies to the voters. They could have had people come to us at skyhold a grand cleric asking us if we would bring back the circle, we give her a answer in front of the nobles and such and that word would get back to the college of clerics as a whole. So to me it was 50/50, quest choices effecting a world outcome yes, war table missions yes, because its publicly addressed how we feel but in private no way. That is like someone saying yes i agree with you in private but never saying they do in public but all of a sudden the public voted for how you felt even though they did not know unless they are mind readers.

 

I totally agree with this. Moreover what I tell to someone when we are in a private discussion must not represent what my character really thinks. I could also tell Vivienne that I like to have the Circle, and then, after 2 minutes, when I talk with Leliana tell her that the Circle ***** and mages should be free because I need approval from both. But then I can understand that we cannot ask for a game which can acknowledge whether our character is lying or not, even if it would be really cool.

 

 

 

I think they could have expanded that bit, to be honest. It felt like a small thing added near the end, when it should have been something huge. Giselle actually seemed to be the best choice, but she kind of "disappears" from the game after you reach Skyhold.

 

Vivienne, Cassandra and Leliana probably won't be in future games except for cameos now. I doubt we will get to bring the divine along as a companion or anything.

 

Considering how huge is the impact in South Thedas, and the enormous differences that we have depending on who becomes divine I suppose that for a future game it won't only be a problem of having them as a companion or not, but to force the whole story and future titles away, in a far different place, because it would be really impossible to create a game where all the differences can fit.   Really I think that a story could also deal with Orlais/Ferelden without the wardens, as well as with a different ruler on the Orlais throne, but when I read what each divine will do if elected I told to myself.. "Well I suppose that we are really done with South Tedas for a while"

[Rawgrim]

I totally agree with this. Moreover what I tell to someone when we are in a private discussion must not represent what my character really thinks. I could also tell Vivienne that I like to have the Circle, and then, after 2 minutes, when I talk with Leliana tell her that the Circle ***** and mages should be free because I need approval from both. But then I can understand that we cannot ask for a game which can acknowledge whether our character is lying or not, even if it would be really cool.

 

 

 

 

Considering how huge is the impact in South Thedas, and the enormous differences that we have depending on who becomes divine I suppose that for a future game it won't only be a problem of having them as a companion or not, but to force the whole story and future titles away, in a far different place, because it would be really impossible to create a game where all the differences can fit.   Really I think that a story could also deal with Orlais/Ferelden without the wardens, as well as with a different ruler on the Orlais throne, but when I read what each divine will do if elected I told to myself.. "Well I suppose that we are really done with South Tedas for a while"

 

I think the divine will just be reffered to as The Divine now, and she will mostly just be kept in the very far background of future games. That means Cassandra, Leliana an Vivienne won't have any huge parts to play in future games. Bioware won't bother to waste resources on huge characters that players won't see if the character has become the divine. The same kind of goes for Hawke now, since he can die in DA:I.

[CenturyCrow]

 Bioware won't bother to waste resources on huge characters that players won't see if the character has become the divine. The same kind of goes for Hawke now, since he can die in DA:I.

 

The writers left some wiggle room for either Hawke or Stroud. When you choose between them, the screen says, “Stroud/Hawke will likely die to cover your escape.” Who better to potentially survive than the champion Hawke or (less likely) a Grey Warden? Have we actually discovered all the rifts (and closed them)?

 

The Divine was needed for the (vague) sacrifice; a new Divine potentially leaves room for additional plots and plot twists. Are all the Venatori dead? Can the Inquisitor travel back to the Fade still?

[Rawgrim]

The writers left some wiggle room for either Hawke or Stroud. When you choose between them, the screen says, “Stroud/Hawke will likely die to cover your escape.” Who better to potentially survive than the champion Hawke or (less likely) a Grey Warden? Have we actually discovered all the rifts (and closed them)?

 

The Divine was needed for the (vague) sacrifice; a new Divine potentially leaves room for additional plots and plot twists. Are all the Venatori dead? Can the Inquisitor travel back to the Fade still?

 

I dunno. If Hawke\Stroud survived that thing, its not much of a choice who you leave behind anyway. I thought that bit was done well. The one who got left behind went out like a boss. If people keep being brought back all the time we are moving into Marvel territory, I think. Where everyone that is popular is pretty much immune to death.

[In Exile]

I dunno. If Hawke\Stroud survived that thing, its not much of a choice who you leave behind anyway. I thought that bit was done well. The one who got left behind went out like a boss. If people keep being brought back all the time we are moving into Marvel territory, I think. Where everyone that is popular is pretty much immune to death.

Like a boss? Really? Murdered by a demon in seconds (you kind of see them falling in the cutscene) doesn't seem particularly heroic to me, and the Nightmare's threat was sold very poorly.

[In Exile]

I think they could have expanded that bit, to be honest. It felt like a small thing added near the end, when it should have been something huge. Giselle actually seemed to be the best choice, but she kind of "disappears" from the game after you reach Skyhold.

 

Vivienne, Cassandra and Leliana probably won't be in future games except for cameos now. I doubt we will get to bring the divine along as a companion or anything.

 

Apparently you were originally going to be made the Inquisitor much earlier on and as a bit more of a figurehead. I think Giselle is someone who they added to justify your coronation as Inquisitor (it's basically all her doing to begin with), and then they dropped the character. But I also think it fits with who she is that she doesn't want to become Divine, just place the people she belives to be right for such roles in them.

[Rawgrim]

Like a boss? Really? Murdered by a demon in seconds (you kind of see them falling in the cutscene) doesn't seem particularly heroic to me, and the Nightmare's threat was sold very poorly.

 

When you attack something that's the size of a huge building with nothing but your sword, it does show some courage. I don't remember seeing them falling in seconds, but I will take your word for it. My memory about it is fuzzy.

 

I think the threat could have been fleshed out and expanded a bit, I agree. But the quest was far from the worst bit in the game.

[Rawgrim]

Apparently you were originally going to be made the Inquisitor much earlier on and as a bit more of a figurehead. I think Giselle is someone who they added to justify your coronation as Inquisitor (it's basically all her doing to begin with), and then they dropped the character. But I also think it fits with who she is that she doesn't want to become Divine, just place the people she belives to be right for such roles in them.

 

Would have been cool if we could have convinced her anyway. I went for Vivienne, personally. She seemed the more clear headed of the trio. Cassandra has rage issues, and Leliana...well...not sure what I did to her but she had a personality change somewhere and ended up being a power hungry psychotic.

[In Exile]

When you attack something that's the size of a huge building with nothing but your sword, it does show some courage. I don't remember seeing them falling in seconds, but I will take your word for it. My memory about it is fuzzy.

 

I think the threat could have been fleshed out and expanded a bit, I agree. But the quest was far from the worst bit in the game.

 

I think it's a perfect example of how Bioware fails to really convey the legitimacy of threats. The entire Here Lies the Abyss questline was by far my least favourite part of the MQs in DA:I. From the random begining (what, there's a nighttime siege!?) to the overall dissapointing battle (bee-line to the GWs), to the Fade segment about meeting a supposed all powerful demon that did absolutely nothing threatening, to the apparent need for a heroic sacrifice.

 

To me, Here Lies the Abyss encapsulates every problem with every part of Corypheus's flaw as a villain, except it doesn't have the visually impressive (if entirely abrupt) final battle scenes (after you defeat Corypheus) and the absolutely incredible "In Your Heart Shall Burn" sequence.

 

I agree giving up your life so that others live is heroic; I just wouldn't characterize someone getting ganked to buy a minute as being the most noble of deaths (given the media we're talking about and the superhuman feats characters regularly perform in it, because obviously IRL that would be an amazing feat).

 

Would have been cool if we could have convinced her anyway. I went for Vivienne, personally. She seemed the more clear headed of the trio. Cassandra has rage issues, and Leliana...well...not sure what I did to her but she had a personality change somewhere and ended up being a power hungry psychotic.

 

I agree with that, though I suppose the in-setting justification is that she just doesn't have the profile.

 

I can't stand Viviene. I think she's such a hypocritical toady that giving her any remote control over anything would be a disaster. Her track record on leadership is that she abandoned the only notable position she ever got for the sake of seeming political power.

[SofaJockey]

I liked it, it wasn't the Inquisitor's choice to make,

yet they influenced the political landscape to get an outcome they didn't necessarily want.

 

Fascinating.

[sandalisthemaker]

I'm fine with it.  I never have a problem getting one of the two choices that I like elected based on the way I like to play. 

[Rawgrim]

I think it's a perfect example of how Bioware fails to really convey the legitimacy of threats. The entire Here Lies the Abyss questline was by far my least favourite part of the MQs in DA:I. From the random begining (what, there's a nighttime siege!?) to the overall dissapointing battle (bee-line to the GWs), to the Fade segment about meeting a supposed all powerful demon that did absolutely nothing threatening, to the apparent need for a heroic sacrifice.

 

To me, Here Lies the Abyss encapsulates every problem with every part of Corypheus's flaw as a villain, except it doesn't have the visually impressive (if entirely abrupt) final battle scenes (after you defeat Corypheus) and the absolutely incredible "In Your Heart Shall Burn" sequence.

 

I agree giving up your life so that others live is heroic; I just wouldn't characterize someone getting ganked to buy a minute as being the most noble of deaths (given the media we're talking about and the superhuman feats characters regularly perform in it, because obviously IRL that would be an amazing feat).

 

 

I agree with that, though I suppose the in-setting justification is that she just doesn't have the profile.

 

I can't stand Viviene. I think she's such a hypocritical toady that giving her any remote control over anything would be a disaster. Her track record on leadership is that she abandoned the only notable position she ever got for the sake of seeming political power.

 

 

You may be right about that quest. I did it in early december. A bug kept me from continuing the game untill 1 week ago. I don't remember it that clearly.

 

Religious leaders are supposed to be hypocritical toads. Not sure what you are getting at She fit the bill.

[In Exile]

You may be right about that quest. I did it in early december. A bug kept me from continuing the game untill 1 week ago. I don't remember it that clearly.

 

Religious leaders are supposed to be hypocritical toads. Not sure what you are getting at She fit the bill.

 

I happen to think that leaders in general shouldn't be hypocritical toads - having "I solve every probem with a punch to the face" Cassandra or the Bloody Murder Divine in Leliana seems quite the preferable alternative.

[Dean_the_Young]

I liked it. It was a direct consequence of my actions. I was very vocal about not supporting Leiliana, and yet I still sent her on every mission in the game. It really shouldn't have been a surprise for me when it turned out she had the power and connections to become Divine at the end no matter what I said. Why would she care if I said no?

 

I hate the way Bioware games usually let me make every major decision for other people and organisations, even when they have no reason to listen to me. This was a nice surprise!

 

I, too, enjoyed how the Divine decision is as much an aggregate of your game-long choices as it is anything else. It's good that you get the chance to role-play who you want in terms of the nomination/rebuttal, but it's also good that you only have a say, not the say.

 

We could quibble on the exact score values (I think the Mage recruitment/conscription is a bit imbalanced itself), but having the Divines be tied to themes works very well.

[TevinterSupremacist]

Nah, the fact that you're the leader of the military branch of the chantry that single-handedly saves the world and you don't get to a)flip the chantry a finger and ignore the divine matter entirely, letting them rot and find it themselves, b ) directly command who'll be the divine from the candidates, c)ignore pre-established rules on divine race and sex and appoint yourself forcefully, while taking over the chantry was in really, really poor taste.

 

Quizzie remained a glorified errand boy/girl, as opposed to a powerful leader.

[Rawgrim]

I, too, enjoyed how the Divine decision is as much an aggregate of your game-long choices as it is anything else. It's good that you get the chance to role-play who you want in terms of the nomination/rebuttal, but it's also good that you only have a say, not the say.

 

We could quibble on the exact score values (I think the Mage recruitment/conscription is a bit imbalanced itself), but having the Divines be tied to themes works very well.

 

How can you roleplay that, exactly? Your character doesn't even know he has a say in the matter untill late in the game.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

I wish a female Inquisitor could become Divine. Now that would be a choice!

[In Exile]

Nah, the fact that you're the leader of the military branch of the chantry that single-handedly saves the world and you don't get to a)flip the chantry a finger and ignore the divine matter entirely, letting them rot and find it themselves, b ) directly command who'll be the divine from the candidates, c)ignore pre-established rules on divine race and sex and appoint yourself forcefully, while taking over the chantry was in really, really poor taste.

 

Quizzie remained a glorified errand boy/girl, as opposed to a powerful leader.

 

You can ignore the matter entirely. The Chantry will still elect a Divine.

 

As to destorying the Chantry, that's like bitching about not being able to abandon Ferelden. An RPG protagonist will always be an errand person. Shepard? Nothing but errands. DAO? Errands. A quest is just a fancy name for an errand.

 

How can you roleplay that, exactly? Your character doesn't even know he has a say in the matter untill late in the game.

 

But you can say your piece. It just might be too late for it. Which happens all the time IRL.

[9TailsFox]

I wish a female Inquisitor could become Divine. Now that would be a choice!

It was cut because it's sexist towards man.

[Fireheart]

It was cut because it's sexist towards man.

That's not why it was cut, it was cut because it was too lore breaking to let other races be Divine, etc. At one point it was going to be possible for a male Qunari to become Divine.

[Dean_the_Young]

How can you roleplay that, exactly? Your character doesn't even know he has a say in the matter untill late in the game.

 

...by having a character who tends to consistently agree with one of the Divine candidates and the themes they represent? I'm not sure what the question is, honestly- if you are the sort of person who wants Divine Leliana, you're probably going to be the sort of person who role-plays a character who agrees with her principals and priorities, and disagrees with the principals and priorities of others.

 

(Unless you're one of those people who tries to get maximum approval by agreeing with everyone, no matter how inconsistent that makes your own character, in which case that's your own fault for giving mixed signals and signs of where you stand.)

[Wulfram]

Consistently agreeing with Cassandra (and sometimes Leliana) got me Vivienne.

 

I think the Divine election would have worked better with only two candidates, because then the candidates positions would be more clearly separated.

[9TailsFox]

That's not why it was cut, it was cut because it was too lore breaking to let other races be Divine, etc. At one point it was going to be possible for a male Qunari to become Divine.

[9TailsFox]

Consistently agreeing with Cassandra (and sometimes Leliana) got me Vivienne.

 

I think the Divine election would have worked better with only two candidates, because then the candidates positions would be more clearly separated.

Welcome to Thedas where elections are made up and your vote don't mater.