101 réponses à ce sujet

[Get Magna Carter]

I'm fine with things not being directly under the player's control but feel the support actions should have been automatically available.

or at least the obtaining of them should not be limited to one specific conversation but should still be gettable later.

 

My problem was that when the election occurred I had not decided between Cassandra and Leiliana and spoke to Cassandra (who was the nearest to me).

Afterwards I triggered the "Left Hand of the Divine" quest and saw how psychotic Leiliana had become (apparently, because I had not told her it was morally wrong to kill one enemy murderer to protect the lives of her agents) but had no opportunity afterwards to get a support action for Cassandra.

Though telling Vivienne I supported Cassandra did enable the Support action for Vivienne... 

[Darkly Tranquil]

I didn't particularly care for it, but I meta-gamed the hell out of it to get the result I wanted, so whatevs.

[TevinterSupremacist]

As to destorying the Chantry, that's like bitching about not being able to abandon Ferelden. An RPG protagonist will always be an errand person. Shepard? Nothing but errands. DAO? Errands. A quest is just a fancy name for an errand.

Aside from  "Oh no, you cited two examples, therefore every rpg protagonist every is an errand boy/girl, yaaaaaaay"....

 

Whether or not a quest is an errand or not depends on its compatibility with character motivation and role in the plot. Gathering stuff is not a quest a leader of a military organisation can justifiably undertake.

[MaxQuartiroli]

...by having a character who tends to consistently agree with one of the Divine candidates and the themes they represent? I'm not sure what the question is, honestly- if you are the sort of person who wants Divine Leliana, you're probably going to be the sort of person who role-plays a character who agrees with her principals and priorities, and disagrees with the principals and priorities of others.

 

 

I think that what he's questioning is the fact that your character doesn't even know that one of those 3 will be elected divine, and when it happens the final results is already settled and it is determined by some decisions that you made earlier, when your character could not even remotely imagining it. You as a player know, your character simply doesn't. If you don't throw the dices and go with whatever outcome the game gives you it's totally a player's choice not a direct consuquence of a conscious choice of your character. 

[In Exile]

...by having a character who tends to consistently agree with one of the Divine candidates and the themes they represent? I'm not sure what the question is, honestly- if you are the sort of person who wants Divine Leliana, you're probably going to be the sort of person who role-plays a character who agrees with her principals and priorities, and disagrees with the principals and priorities of others.

(Unless you're one of those people who tries to get maximum approval by agreeing with everyone, no matter how inconsistent that makes your own character, in which case that's your own fault for giving mixed signals and signs of where you stand.)

But in that case the result is still realistic (and ironic and hilarious): you're a people pleaser who is modulating public views to impress others and then those others are desperately trying to please YOU by trying to guess what you want from all your political statements.

It makes perfect sense.

[In Exile]

Aside from "Oh no, you cited two examples, therefore every rpg protagonist every is an errand boy/girl, yaaaaaaay"....

Whether or not a quest is an errand or not depends on its compatibility with character motivation and role in the plot. Gathering stuff is not a quest a leader of a military organisation can justifiably undertake.

I want to eat food. I want clean clothes. Going to buy detergent and bread is still an errand.

That you happen to think the quest is beneath you (or not) doesn't make it less of an errand.

Every RPG quest is an errand. DAOs plot is literally an errand. Being an "adventurer" in D&D just means running errands

[TevinterSupremacist]

That you happen to think the quest is beneath you (or not) doesn't make it less of an errand.
 

"It is beneath a leader of a military organisation with servants, troops and enforcers to gather crafting materials" is beyond "TevinterSupremacist happens to think it" and more closer to "It's a f*cking fact".

[In Exile]

"It is beneath a leader of a military organisation with servants, troops and enforcers to gather crafting materials" is beyond "TevinterSupremacist happens to think it" and more closer to "It's a f*cking fact".

No, it's your view of it. The reason leaders don't do grunt work IRL isn't that they're better than it in some ridiculous entitlement sense, it's that there are more demanding (and equally boring) obligations. The real Inquisitor wouldn't do much of anything beyond administrative work and very high level management.

[TevinterSupremacist]

The reason leaders don't do grunt work IRL isn't that they're better than it in some ridiculous entitlement sense, it's that there are more demanding (and equally boring) obligations. The real Inquisitor wouldn't do much of anything beyond administrative work and very high level management.

It was never about entitlement. My post was about compatibility with character role and motivations. If you mean to say the role of an inquisitor isn't fit for an action rpg protagonist, then we should have never be given such a game in the first place.

 

There are two options. Either the developers think the role of a leader is fit for a video game character, or they think it isn't fit.

If they think it is, make the character and have him/her act out as you, the developer envision a leader acting in a way befitting a game.

If they think it isn't, don't make a game about it.

 

Making a game about a leader and then having him/her act unlike a leader, is moronic.

[The Baconer]

I can appreciate the line of reasoning behind making the system as they did, but Vivienne becoming Divine without a declaration of support from the Inquisitor is just complete, utter nonsense.

[Lady Artifice]

No, I didn't much care for it. I felt like they pushed for it to be one of our companions even when there was a much better choice we could have considered. I won't get into complaining about Gisele not being an option, because there isn't much point, but I'm not really happy with any of the options.

 

That's just politics, I suppose. 

 

I do think it's cool that it's possible for it to depend on more than just which one we support though. The theme is intriguing. 

[Hellion Rex]

Nope. Absolutely hated it. I sincerely wish it had gone to Giselle by default.

 

Now, that said, if Cassandra or Leliana had been chosen, without any input from us whatsoever or not defined by our choices, then that would have been fine with me.

 

Viv has absolutely no place being the Divine. It's mind boggling to me that the Chantry would even consider putting a mage on the throne.

[Steelcan]

I didn't mind it, I'm more upset with BSN acting like the choice matters, as if its not going to be retconned

[Lady Artifice]

Viv's easily the most politically competent of the three though, by a huge margin. That counts for something. 

[Steelcan]

Viv's easily the most politically competent of the three though, by a huge margin. That counts for something. 

there's a quote by a favorite protagonist of mine, ME1 Renegade Shepard, that is applicable to Cassandra's Divine..ship...acy....thing

 

"you can't just bludgeon through everything"

 

"I can bludgeon pretty hard"

[Lady Artifice]

there's a quote by a favorite protagonist of mine, ME1 Renegade Shepard, that is applicable to Cassandra's Divine..ship...acy....thing

 

"you can't just bludgeon through everything"

 

"I can bludgeon pretty hard"

 

No one can bludgeon like Cassandra...She's going to hate being Divine, though. She hates it pretty much as soon as it happens. 

 

She showers me with approval when I tell her she'd make a good Divine, so I'm like, "Okay if you're sure, Cassandra. For you? Anything." So, I support her. I don't even bring up the possibility with the other two. Then as soon as the main story is finished, she's freaking out about all the bureaucracy all day every day.

 

Well, the bureaucracy isn't going away. It's there for the rest of her life.

 

Cassandra wants to punch dragons in the face, not manage policies and meet with diplomats. A warrior Divine is a cool idea, and so is having a moderate option, but I hate doing that to her. 

[Steelcan]

if there's anyone who can cut back the ceremony and pomp around the position its her

[AresKeith]

Cassandra wants to punch dragons in the face, not manage policies and meet with diplomats. A warrior Divine is a cool idea, and so is having a moderate option, but I hate doing that to her. 

 

But picture a Warrior Divine outfit though 

[Lady Artifice]

But picture a Warrior Divine outfit though 

 

It's probably magnificent. A warrior Divine is a spectacular concept, yeah, but...

 

She's going to be miserable. 

 

::growl:: I hate this choice. 

[Darkly Tranquil]

I didn't mind it, I'm more upset with BSN acting like the choice matters, as if its not going to be retconned

 

[Rawgrim]

...by having a character who tends to consistently agree with one of the Divine candidates and the themes they represent? I'm not sure what the question is, honestly- if you are the sort of person who wants Divine Leliana, you're probably going to be the sort of person who role-plays a character who agrees with her principals and priorities, and disagrees with the principals and priorities of others.

 

(Unless you're one of those people who tries to get maximum approval by agreeing with everyone, no matter how inconsistent that makes your own character, in which case that's your own fault for giving mixed signals and signs of where you stand.)

 

Yeah but you don't really have time to do that at all. The choice pops up right before the final mission, more or less. You don't even know the candidates before that. Very little time to roleplay or influence much.

[Hazegurl]

I actually liked this aspect of the game. It was a nice change from "You choose" in a way you sort of did, based on your actions and opinions. The fact remains is that choosing certain options do maintain the status quo, even if you don't mean to. 

 

Happy_daiz: If they're that interested in what the Inquisitor is doing, maybe the Inquisitor should be the Divine.

 

I agree. I also would have liked the option to take the Divine throne by force.

[SirEuain]

I like the mechanics being a little opaque. My problem lies with the choices -- they're too few, and they're all the Inquisitor's people. It's ludicrous that the Chantry could put forward nobody but the Inquisition's people as candidates, even as a dark horse, especially with some of the anti-Chantry comments available in the game. It makes no sense that the Chantry would choose allies of someone they consider an enemy.

 

On the other end of the extreme, my Inquisitor was fully intending to be everything the Chantry feared, and I was surprised putting herself forward as a candidate wasn't an option. I saw and understand why BioWare decided this would've been too difficult to set up for subsequent games, but that's no excuse for not allowing an attempt -- particularly if the Inquisitor's advisors all speak against it, saying it's a wasted effort. Just because it can't work doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed an attempt.

[MageTarot]

Nope. Absolutely hated it. I sincerely wish it had gone to Giselle by default.

 

 

 

Absolutely this. I think Giselle would have made an excellent candidate for Divine. My only question is what the world state of Thedas would have to be in order for Giselle to be elected since each of the other candidates have the 3 main outcomes (return to how things were/reform/rededication) pretty much covered.

[Rolhir]

I liked the system...in theory.

 

When discussing the prospect of a new Divine being elected, Cass and Lelianna were indicated as possible choices. Then it's mentioned by several people that as the Inquisitor, your support would very likely make a big difference (aka, you get to pick). I then spoke to Cass telling her not to do it (she kept talking like it was inevitable that she would be elected to the point that I thought I'd screwed up somehow and the game thought I supported her). Then I spoke with Lelianna and told her that I thought she would make a great Divine and told her I fully supported her taking the position, but she kept talking like she knew she wouldn't get chosen.

 

So I got to the end game dreading that Cass would take it instead of Lelianna even though my support was directly stated to be for Lelianna. BAM! Vivienne is Divine! .....seriously? I didn't even know she was remotely a possibility.

 

I didn't like that the game was obvious that I could impact the choice of candidate, let me express my support for one, and then chose someone different. Also the fact that Vivienne, who again wasn't in it for the religion, would be made Divine at all seemed VERY strange. It was already weird enough that none of the candidates were even officially part of the Chantry anymore...

 

All that being said, I do like that you don't get to pick; I just wish the game didn't let me think I did.