45 réponses à ce sujet

[Maiden Ty One]

Well, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one bothered by this. It doesn't look like Bioware have any plans or intentions of implementing a NG+ into Inquisition, but they (finally) put in a storage chest (albeit one that can't hold valuables ) after so many people requested it.

 

So all I'll say to everyone who wants NG+, keep requesting it! I'm not saying we should spam the feedback boards or anything, but if enough of us make a noise Bioware might actually get their heads out of their....well, they might actually DO something about it.

 

And remember; bare minimum, import faces. I can't imagine anyone objecting to this.

[AlanC9]

I have played through the entire Mass Effect trilogy 3 times. I can't say I would have done so if they didn't have NG+.

You mean you've played a single character through three times?

 

You're obviously one of these gamers who doesn't care whatsoever about story and has no appreciation for the art side of videogames, you're clearly only interested in gameplay/game mechanics - which is cool, some people are like that. But you're doing that really stupid, arrogant thing of thinking what's good for you should be good for everybody.

Well, it looks like you're doing that really stupid, arrogant thing of thinking that you know my tastes in gaming.   

You've got it exactly backwards. I'm not really interested in gameplay and mechanics. Whatever they are, I adapt to them, but I don't care about them. Well, except in an academic sense.

It's precisely because I only care about the narrative that I want to experience that narrative with different characters. And I'd have a tough time doing NG+ in any game where the PC is supposed to be a novice at the start of the game, since I'd be playing a character who isn't a novice. Not a problem in ME, but that's one of the few exceptions.
 

What I don't get about people like you, is that when someone suggests something that you're indifferent about, you act like you'd rather it not go in, as though the existence of NG+ would actually annoy you - even though it wouldn't affect you in any way, because no one's forcing you to use it, you'd prefer no one else be allowed to use it, either.

It'll only have an effect on me if they change the scaling system to accommodate it. Otherwise I don't give a damn. And if the plan is to leave the scaling alone and let NG+ players blow through everything easily, I wouldn't give a damn either. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I'm against NG+ per se. Thinking something is a bit silly isn't the same thing as being opposed to it.

[Maiden Ty One]

Oh boy, we've got one of 'those' people here....Ok, fine, I'll bite.

Believe me, when I'm not being serious my posts are really preposterous -- for instance, saying that Refuse should have been the only ending in ME3. I don't think being ambiguous about your level of seriousness is a useful approach on a message board like this. It's hard enough to sort out the real crazy positions from the deliberate nonsense as it is.

............................

 

Ugh....I can't even....just no...

 

 Or they boot it up without NG+ and play it with a different character. And a second different character, and a third. Both ways are replaying.

 

YES, I wasn't talking about EVERY GOD DAMN gamer on planet Earth, was I? I was talking about a significant number of gamers who DO do exactly what I just described.

 

There are people who will only likely replay a game if it has NG+. Yes, I know, not everybody is like that, but a hell of a lot of people are. Many people just don't have the time or the patience.

 

I know this might be a horrendous shock for you, but not everybody is the same, and they're certainly not all like you. I know, craaaazy, right? I can tell from what I've read in your posts so far that you're one of these arrogant people who A) thinks half the world is like you, and the other half aspire to be like you, and B ) enjoy just being difficult and argumentative for its own sake, taking people facetiously literally one minute then ignoring half of what they said the next.

 

And I wasn't suggesting NG+ is the only way to replay. Nice straw-man fallacy.

 

 

 

Actually, your replies today have made me more confused about the issue than I was. I thought the idea was that the game is more fun at high levels, so you want to start the game at a high level. (Though that still doesn't explain why you need to play it first from a low level -- why not just use a console command, if you've got them, to start at a high level from the get-go.)

 

Firstly, because I'm not playing on PC, obviously.

 

Second, that's part of the appeal of NG+. You need to start from a low level to 'earn' your way to the higher level - just using a command or exploit to instantly zap yourself to Level 20 the first time you play, is 'cheating'. I don't want to remove all challenge from a game I'm playing, the first time I play I play legitimately, because that's part of what that game 'is'. But, once I've reached say, Level 20, and completed the game, then yes, going back and playing from the beginning at that level is more 'fun', than just running around the open world in the completed profile, trying to find enemies at lower levels than me. It can be fairly fun, for a while, but doesn't compare to NG+.

 

 

 

But then we have:

So it's about story and doing all the different paths differently? Well, sure, but how does playing the same character help with that?

Because I like the face I spent hours designing. That's 'my' Inquisitor, that's who I see in my head when I think about the game. Just like my Shepard is the same Shepard across all my play throughs - for me, 'my' Shepard is the Shepard of Mass Effect, and I have to remind myself that other people see a totally different visual in their mind's eye when they think of Mass Effect, and that's part of the fun.

 

 

 Wouldn't the same character do things that are in character for her no matter how many times you use her?

 

No, 'cause she's got Multiple Personality Disorder.....

 

Seriously, you must be freaking unbearable to watch a movie with; "Well, I don't believe this character's actions, because I saw this actor playing a different character in another movie that would never say or do the things this character is doing...."

 

The face I've designed for my Inquisitor is like an 'actor' playing a role. I want to see what that actor looks like doing the various things the game let's you do. I might play through once being nice, then play through again being kind of a bltch. Then on my third playthrough I might mix it up to get my 'definitive' Inquisitor. I might play through once as an atheist, then again as a 'believer' in the Maker. And in the case of DA: Inquisition, some of the 'choices' are not actually choices at all, such as who becomes Divine, so maybe the eventual Divine in my first playthrough is incongruent with my Inquisitor's character after all.

 

Or maybe I just regretted some of the choices I made for my Inquisitor the first time round, and would like to replay it getting those choices right without having to start entirely from scratch, doing the same 20+ hours running around collecting shards and delivering herbs.

 

 

Or is it about playing different characters with the same face? Or is it just about blowing through stuff on a second run?

 

For me, yes. Some people like NG+ for other reasons, but for me, this is the main one; I like to experience the narrative of the game in a more seamless way, without the endless point grinding in between story missions. Some people might scoff at that, I don't care, sue me; I like games with a good story.

I'll play a game with a good story but bad gameplay (ME1, anyone?). I'll only ever play a game with a bad story but great gameplay, if the gameplay is really, really, freaking good (such as Devil May Cry). If it's a straight up toss between a game with good narrative or one with good gameplay, I'll pick narrative every time. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

If so, isn't that what's Casual is for?

 

No. Casual is for people who've never played the game but aren't very good at those kind of games. Novices, in other words. I am not a novice, I just don't like spending 20+ hours grinding when I've already done it. Plus, I like to feel that any continual grinding I do is moving me up even further.

 

Plus, Casual doesn't allow you to 'breeze through' the leveling and grinding so you can just go to through the story missions. All the leveling and grinding is there, it's just slightly easier - so maybe 18+ hours instead of 20+.

 

Maybe if Dragon Age Inquisition had a 'story mode' like ME3 had, that might do. It'd still suck that we can't import our completed Inquisitor's face, but it would at least be something. However, I just think that in this day and age, a leveling up game that doesn't have NG+ just should not happen any more. There really is no excuse for it.

 

 

As you can see, I'm really not getting it.

No, you're really not, and I doubt you ever will. It's like me trying to figure out why some people read Twilight; I just literally DO NOT understand what they are getting out of it, or why they bother. But you know what? I'm not telling them they shouldn't be reading it, and I'm not telling Twilight's publisher that they shouldn't be publishing it, just because I happen to think it's horrendous and a waste of time. I'm sure there's stuff I like that they find equally horrendous (Dragon Age, probably), and that's all good, because it would be boring as hell if we were all the same and liked the same things. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Maiden Ty One]

You mean you've played a single character through three times?

Same face, yes. I did different things each time, and part of the reason for one playthrough was so I could play through with all the new DLC that came out, but essentially, yeah, I played through it 3 times.

 

I don't know why some people think this is weird. You don't see a movie you really liked and go "That's it! I'm never watching this movie again!". I'll happily replay a game I liked, even a linear, non-RPG one with a fixed set character. The fact the character is the same doesn't phase me in the slightest.

 

 

 

Well, it looks like you're doing that really stupid, arrogant thing of thinking that you know my tastes in gaming.   

Just going by what I'm seeing in your posts. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

 

 

You've got it exactly backwards. I'm not really interested in gameplay and mechanics. Whatever they are, I adapt to them, but I don't care about them. Well, except in an academic sense.

It's precisely because I only care about the narrative that I want to experience that narrative with different characters. And I'd have a tough time doing NG+ in any game where the PC is supposed to be a novice at the start of the game, since I'd be playing a character who isn't a novice. Not a problem in ME, but that's one of the few exceptions. 

Ok, fair point.

 

But I could say the same thing about Inquisition; I don't see anywhere in the story that says the Inquisitor is meant to be a novice fighter. Quite the opposite.

 

I guess you and I are just very different. For me, every time I replay with a different character to my original, it feels less and less immersive. 'Shepard' started to feel less and less like a real person when I kept changing her face, so I stopped doing it. When I see other people playing ME with their Shepard, there's a slight feeling of illusion being shattered - it's no big deal, especially if I only see a few minutes of it, but if I were to replay ME, or see a full play through of ME with a different Shepard, it would slightly spoil my perception of ME in my head. :/

 

You seem to have an opposite thing going on. It seems like for you, it's less immersive to stay with the same version of your character, and reinforces the narrative to change characters every time.. That's honestly alien to me, but I guess it's kind of cool that some people can do that.

 

 

It'll only have an effect on me if they change the scaling system to accommodate it. Otherwise I don't give a damn. And if the plan is to leave the scaling alone and let NG+ players blow through everything easily, I wouldn't give a damn either. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I'm against NG+ per se. Thinking something is a bit silly isn't the same thing as being opposed to it.

 

Ok, fair enough. I apologise if I came off a bit rude (especially in my last lengthy reply - I hadn't seen this reply from you when I wrote that one, sorry ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ) Guess I'm not as unassuming as I like to think.

[KaiserShep]

Thanks. I tried NG+ on ME1 once, and that cured me of it for good (unless I want to do a little achievement whoring). Though it was interesting to see how much gameplay goes away when loot and credits become irrelevant. It didn't help that I find the ME1 combat system start to break down after level 40 or so.

I find many Bio RPGs quite replayable, but only with new characters.

Well, ME1 was just an example. I play ME3 more frequently than the others, and I love having that one specific Shepard saved with all of the available equipment and other various things, and I'll usually revisit that one as well as an alternate here and there. If NG+ didn't exist for it, I'd probably not bother that much.

[AlanC9]

I can tell from what I've read in your posts so far that you're one of these arrogant people who A) thinks half the world is like you, and the other half aspire to be like you

Huh? How did I give you idea that I think lots of people are like me? I certainly didn't intend to convey that. I don't think it's true, and I don't care if it's true or not. I'll cop to a version of point B, though, since I find disagreements interesting.
 

And I wasn't suggesting NG+ is the only way to replay. Nice straw-man fallacy.

I didn't intend any strawman there. What I intended to point out was that you didn't actually explain how NG+ helps with replayability. I probably just should have said that directly of course.
 
 

Second, that's part of the appeal of NG+. You need to start from a low level to 'earn' your way to the higher level - just using a command or exploit to instantly zap yourself to Level 20 the first time you play, is 'cheating'. I don't want to remove all challenge from a game I'm playing, the first time I play I play legitimately, because that's part of what that game 'is'. But, once I've reached say, Level 20, and completed the game, then yes, going back and playing from the beginning at that level is more 'fun', than just running around the open world in the completed profile, trying to find enemies at lower levels than me. It can be fairly fun, for a while, but doesn't compare to NG+.

OK, so high-level gameplay is more fun, but you feel like you have to earn it somehow? My experience has mostly been that RPG gameplay tends to break down in the higher levels, but this wouldn't make sense to talk about except on a game-by-game basis.
 
 

The face I've designed for my Inquisitor is like an 'actor' playing a role. I want to see what that actor looks like doing the various things the game let's you do. I might play through once being nice, then play through again being kind of a bltch. Then on my third playthrough I might mix it up to get my 'definitive' Inquisitor. I might play through once as an atheist, then again as a 'believer' in the Maker. And in the case of DA: Inquisition, some of the 'choices' are not actually choices at all, such as who becomes Divine, so maybe the eventual Divine in my first playthrough is incongruent with my Inquisitor's character after all.

Same actor, different characters? That's a really interesting metaphor. Do you think you could articulate why you prefer to have a single actor rather than multiple actors?

For me, yes. Some people like NG+ for other reasons, but for me, this is the main one; I like to experience the narrative of the game in a more seamless way, without the endless point grinding in between story missions.

I can see that, but "grinding" seems quite specific to DAI's design. This doesn't explain why NG+ was necessary for ME1, for instance, where grinding doesn't get you anywhere. I'm hard-pressed to think of any other SP RPG where grinding is necessary, unless needing gold to advance the DA2 and BG2 plots counts, but in those cases the only way to earn gold is story missions.

[AlanC9]

Just going by what I'm seeing in your posts. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Come to think of it, when I talked about trying NG+ myself I did talk only about gameplay. I figured the other stuff was obvious.
 

I guess you and I are just very different. For me, every time I replay with a different character to my original, it feels less and less immersive. 'Shepard' started to feel less and less like a real person when I kept changing her face, so I stopped doing it. When I see other people playing ME with their Shepard, there's a slight feeling of illusion being shattered - it's no big deal, especially if I only see a few minutes of it, but if I were to replay ME, or see a full play through of ME with a different Shepard, it would slightly spoil my perception of ME in my head. :/
 
You seem to have an opposite thing going on. It seems like for you, it's less immersive to stay with the same version of your character, and reinforces the narrative to change characters every time.. That's honestly alien to me, but I guess it's kind of cool that some people can do that.

Yeah, this is very strange to me. I don't think these different -- intuitions? -- can really be reconciled. But we don't have a substantive dispute on game design here unless we get into issues like scaling.
 
 

Ok, fair enough. I apologise if I came off a bit rude (especially in my last lengthy reply - I hadn't seen this reply from you when I wrote that one, sorry ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ) Guess I'm not as unassuming as I like to think.

No problem. It's not like I ever make any effort whatsoever to avoid ticking people off.

[Requiemslove]

This is patently untrue. Also impossible.

 

Your six words are patently grandstanding, to no avail. A provocation seeking response. I will not answer it other than to say your wrong.

[o Ventus]

Your six words are patently grandstanding, to no avail. A provocation seeking response. I will not answer it other than to say your wrong.

 

... ? He's entire right. It's impossible for any game to cater to everyone's taste. The very fact that games can be sorted into genres should be proof enough of this. Personally, I'm good with playing any kind of game so long as it isn't dull or broken, but I know people who don't like shooters, who don't like MOBAs, who dislike puzzle games, etc. It's literally impossible to cater to everyone.

[Requiemslove]

What's wrong with only getting to the mid 40s?

 

Nothing is. There is just no feasible reason for bioware to think its not "for them" when so many of their customers want it. 

[Requiemslove]

... ? He's entire right. It's impossible for any game to cater to everyone's taste. The very fact that games can be sorted into genres should be proof enough of this. Personally, I'm good with playing any kind of game so long as it isn't dull or broken, but I know people who don't like shooters, who don't like MOBAs, who dislike puzzle games, etc. It's literally impossible to cater to everyone.

 

Again. Try reading exactly what I said...you may actually understand me then.

 

FTR, my point is that games companies with multiple titles of the same brand always "try" to listen and meet the wishes of their products audience. One of those wishes has been for a while now, for the next DA game to have a NG+ mode, and their inability or unwillingness to meet that wish is a bitter dissappointment. 

[lordsaren101]

I support NG+

[caradoc2000]

I've never understood NG+. For me, replayability comes from being able to experience the story as something new, a new race/class/build or somesuch. A big part of the fun is also to have something to look forward to like new abilities or weapons. Where is the fun when you start with the best equipment and most of the abilities. Furthermore in many games you tend to become overpowered at high levels.

 

I've tried NG+ a few times, and all it did was give me a been there, done that feeling. I've already killed these guys with this very same character, why would I want to do so again.

 

As to face imports, I never create the same face twice.

 

That said, I am not against NG+ feature. If it rocks someone's boat, by all means.

[o Ventus]

Again. Try reading exactly what I said...you may actually understand me then.

 

FTR, my point is that games companies with multiple titles of the same brand always "try" to listen and meet the wishes of their products audience. One of those wishes has been for a while now, for the next DA game to have a NG+ mode, and their inability or unwillingness to meet that wish is a bitter dissappointment. 

 

Okay, let's take a look at this conversation. You said this:

 

Any good game caters to all tastes.

 

To which the following was the response:

 

This is patently untrue. Also impossible.

 

And you responded to that with:

 

Your six words are patently grandstanding, to no avail. A provocation seeking response. I will not answer it other than to say your wrong.

 

To which I said in response:

 

... ? He's entire right. It's impossible for any game to cater to everyone's taste. The very fact that games can be sorted into genres should be proof enough of this. Personally, I'm good with playing any kind of game so long as it isn't dull or broken, but I know people who don't like shooters, who don't like MOBAs, who dislike puzzle games, etc. It's literally impossible to cater to everyone.

 

So, in short, you said that a good game caters to all tastes. Someone refuted this, and you said that they were fishing for a response (aka trolling). I posted in support of him and said that his stance is correct, and you just tell me to read what you posted. I did read what you posted, hence this conversation. Your "point" (if you can call it that) has nothing at all to do with what you actually said.

[lordsaren101]

Stop arguing like old hens, support ng+

[WildOrchid]

Totally with you, especially the face import. 

It saddens me that i'll probably won't play the game from the start again with the Trevelyan i have as my avi. She's the only human i'm happy with her face. The previous were all fails.

 

 

At least if not NG+, some kind of option to play with the same face would suffice for me.

[Dai Grepher]

It's called saving the game immediately and then backing up the copy. That's how you maintain your character's origin. Doing this also saves the world state. The import idea only works if the Keep world state is imported with it. As it stands now, you can't import a world state from Keep unless your game is in online mode. To get into online mode you are forced to download the bad patches. Which means, no more world states for those who want their games to function properly.

 

As for new game plus, I don't care either way, so I would support the idea. I would prefer a way to just start at a high level though, for those of us who recreated our Heroes using the new custom character creator.

[Pasquale1234]

I can see that, but "grinding" seems quite specific to DAI's design. This doesn't explain why NG+ was necessary for ME1, for instance, where grinding doesn't get you anywhere.

It can be pretty useful to those who might wish to forego looting in a subsequent playthrough. Or those who have a strong aversion to ME1's minigame or don't want to fiddle with inventory or want specific equipment that is RNG dependent.

Looting mechanics in RPGs sometimes... bother me, I guess, for a couple of reasons:
-- There are cases where you walk right into someone's private living space and start stealing their stuff. The apartment (and clinic) in ME2's Mordin recruitment mission, the Quarian's Alarei in Tali's loyalty mission, for example. I'd rather not loot some places, but if I want the equipment, upgrades, credits, item to finish a fetch quest, whatever, I have to.
-- It can add a lot to one's enjoyment of a mission to fully immerse in it's urgency and focus entirely on the mission's goal instead of taking time to scout every nook and cranny for loot.

Then there's the thing where, in many RPGs, by the time you acquire certain skills and/or items, you don't get to use them very much, because the playthrough is nearly finished.

Speaking of ME1, I've done 3 complete NG+ playthroughs of my original soldier Shep, and never did get heavy Colossus or Predator armor for her - despite buying all the licenses, frequently checking with merchants, and looting everything. That's what happens when you use RNG to generate merchant inventory and loot. I'd like to be able to equip the entire team with the same armor for a uniform look, but that's impossible to do in a single playthrough due to the RNG used for armor generation. You'd think that a Spectre with Council and Alliance backing should be able to outfit the team without needing to resort to salvaging all over the galaxy. Frankly, the typical RPG looting mechanics felt a little OOC for me.

At this point, if I start another NG+ with that same character, I can equip every squaddie with Spectre weapons and high level armors, all with the best mods, at the beginning of the game. It is true that combat isn't as challenging, but it allows me to completely ignore inventory, looting, and shopping and instead focus completely on the urgency of the primary missions.

Imagine NG+ in DAO, if you will. You could build, for example, a warrior with S/S, 2-handed, and dual-wield skills, switching weapon sets and trying different techniques in every battle throughout the game. The same warden could have Coercion, Poison-making, Trap-making, Stealing, etc. skills, instead of needing to specialize and have specific party members along to complete some things. Is it really so impossible to believe that someone good enough to be recruited to the wardens might have at least minimal knowledge of multiple skill sets? Or that they might learn a few tricks from other party members along the way?

Ah, well. Different strokes and all...

[HuldraDancer]

Casting my vote in for some kind of form of NG+ especially if you can carry certain things over from your old game like didn't ME let you carry over your credits or gear something like that right? Been awhile since I played. If DAI had a NG+ with at the very least carrying over left over crafting materials I would still be playing it right now tbh. I enjoy some forms of NG+ like in the first Mass Effect and I do think that it certainly wouldn't hurt to have some NG+ into Dragon Age as well. (also slightly OT but it would be neat to see them bring back the idea that some of the achievements you get give you little bonuses as well)

[AlanC9]

Speaking of ME1, I've done 3 complete NG+ playthroughs of my original soldier Shep, and never did get heavy Colossus or Predator armor for her - despite buying all the licenses, frequently checking with merchants, and looting everything. That's what happens when you use RNG to generate merchant inventory and loot.

Yeah, that can happen. My take on ME1's shops is that using them is counterproductive. You're better off using that time to roll the RNG dice some more.

You'd think that a Spectre with Council and Alliance backing should be able to outfit the team without needing to resort to salvaging all over the galaxy. Frankly, the typical RPG looting mechanics felt a little OOC for me.

Agreed. In theory I should like NG+ better in ME1 as a matter of RP. In practice I found that it sucked out a bunch of gameplay and replaced it with.... well, nothing

Imagine NG+ in DAO, if you will. You could build, for example, a warrior with S/S, 2-handed, and dual-wield skills, switching weapon sets and trying different techniques in every battle throughout the game. The same warden could have Coercion, Poison-making, Trap-making, Stealing, etc. skills, instead of needing to specialize and have specific party members along to complete some things. Is it really so impossible to believe that someone good enough to be recruited to the wardens might have at least minimal knowledge of multiple skill sets? Or that they might learn a few tricks from other party members along the way?Ah, well. Different strokes and all...

Hmm. Sounds awful -- characters becoming undifferentiated as they reached high levels was something I loathed about ME1's system. Different strokes, as you say.

[Requiemslove]

+ o Ventus

 

I am loath to clog the chat up with multiple quotes to your reply. Just know I figured people reading my comment would have the awareness to read between the lines and grasp the notion I was being SPECIFIC to the DA series. Whereas the commenter you so gallantly jump in defence to, like some over eager white knight in shining paladin armour, is right in his/her summation that the words he/she replied to were wrong in the grand scheme of things, he/she is WRONG that games developers DONT listen to their customers when it comes to sequels. Its all in context. Do games developers care at the time of a new game what the customer thinks? Yes and no, they care that the game is a success and is fun, but they DONT care about criticism of game specifics unless something in said game makes no logical sense to be the way it was designed. In any case, far as I care you argue simply for the sake of it.

 

Another thing. Please learn what the word trolling means. It pains me to see others misusing that word. No one here means offence to anyone else or intends to emotionally harm, especially not myself. And if I am wrong, and that other commenter did mean to be that way, well this commenter has far too thick a skin to care, and regularly trolls oneself.