131 réponses à ce sujet

[Shampoohorn]

Shotgun omniblade is always the correct choice for a shadow. There are so many different shotguns, you're not constraining playstyle much. Irrespective of that, suggesting that a SS focused build is boring in favor of a SS with a dash of ES and a longer range weapon is ignoring the fact that you have 60 other kits to choose for any given match.

[Sinapus]

My build:

http://kalence.drupa...!13556314!0.DDA

 

Can either run to a somewhat distant enemy and melee/shotgun to the face or shadow strike one enemy and either finish it with a heavy melee or run to another enemy and melee it. Hit and run works best. Always have an escape route in mind.

[Chealec]

Up to Gold level just do this

[Terminator Force]

As to this and the rest of your post, if you want to take sub optimal setups that's your prerogative.

 

 

It's lol Gold. So It's all about experimenting with any kit & any weapons & any build. As in anything goes. Why Gold is still so much fun for me (otherwise I'd only play Platinum). So basically who cares about optimal setup that only pugs depend on (actually, If a slap a Shotgun & max Power Amps on, it should be fine or close enough for Platinum. If not, all I need to do is add more dmg to the SS evolutions).

 

Most of my pug games are with pugs that have un-maxed Un-Common and Rare weapons. Do you think it's fair if I always bring optimal setups to these pug matches and dominate the epeen charts every game by leaps an bounds + in combination with how much more I know about the quirks about this game & the extra playtime I have over the average pug? Heck no, that's when pugs bail or start hopping in my backpack instead. So I don't see any fun or fairness in that (unless I play BSNers & better players, then anything goes + it's usually Platinum anyway in that case).

 

And again, I'm playing as Winfiltrator with dmg bonus tac-cloak (why having no passives on Shadow is of no issue outside of the weight bonus I'm losing). So that Phantom is not going to take more dmg then the 1SS under tac-cloak anyways. Plus I like the variety of switching between all powers on my kits if I can help it & still have the option on focusing on only my weapons too. That's what I mean by I can pay her however I like. Do I feel like just spamming ES? Or SS? Or just my weapon? Or just melee? Or a little of either? Well, that's why I love the Shadow build I came up with. The flexibility to play her however I want and with whatever weapon I want, whenever. And it fitting the mood I may be in without having to burn another respec card.

 

 

And builds that are too optimal are not always fun. Heck they are usually more boring from what I recall. Why you think Harrier Ghosts get so much hate when seen in Gold? Or Reeger/Acolyte GT Flamer? Optimal? Yes. Boring as heck? Heck yes.

 

I just tested in game, even with stability mod unscoped lancer has a bigger spread than csmg, I'm not talking about stability I'm talking about accuracy.

 

My info is based off a memory of a video test a BSNer named Capn233 did in a topic I started in the past; Here's some of the chit chat;

 

Was this with or without Stability bonus?  If it wasn't you made sure not to move the mouse left or right?

 

Here is the easy version of the test with a 100% stab turian.

 

 

If anything, I might concede that the accuracy is basically the same.  But that still doesn't give CSMG a greater effective range than Lancer unless you are just talking fighting stability.  And in that case it is still hyperbole to claim that there is such a disparate difference in range if you actually use them back to back, and especially considering Lancer does more damage to mooks to begin with.

 

I know how to handle my recoil, but I tested it again with 100% stability. Same results: CSMG had less spread. Not by a huge margin, but it was still a smaller spread.

 

To clarify here, I am not saying that there is a huge difference or trying to imply that the Lancer's accuracy is in the same category of the AT-12 or anything like that. You can stop trying to argue against that, because it's not what I'm trying to say.

 

The CSMG however is still a bit more accurate which at the longer ranges can result in a few more hits or headshots against smaller targets. The Lancer has its own set of benefits and I don't even necessarily think that it's a worse gun than the CSMG.

 

 

So maybe the accuracy spread is a bit better on the CSMG,  but you shouldn't notice it.

 

 

And as a bonus, here is some hot passionate Human Soldier Lancer headshot action without stability help (from that same topic);

 

Lancer has a little recoil yaw, but so does CSMG.

 

All the recoil that matters is up and down.  Anything left or right that matters is introduced by the user.

 

Here is my crappy first and only attempt.  The first thing I did when I started the game yesterday, so was sort of crappy until 1:30.

 

 

[LuckyStarr]

It's lol Gold. So It's all about experimenting with any kit & any weapons & any build. As in anything goes.

 

I don't feel at all that Gold is place for experiments - at least not for most folks. Of course, if you're one of the top players, you can make anything work well enough to finish the game. But to me Silver is the sandbox (where anything works well enough), and Gold is the tryhard mode. Because I can feel very clearly if my kit works or not starting on wave 3, and it also soon becomes clear if the team is good enough to extract or not. Unlike Silver, not extracting is a real risk on Gold, and it happens at least 1 out of 5 or 6 (if I'm lucky) games.

Also, I notice that on Gold more people than not have good kits with lvl 3/4 consumables and maxed everything.

[GruntKitterhand]

Sinful, as I've said before, subjective preferences are absolutely fine in my book, so I have no argument over your choices.  But like most of us, you seem to think that variety in gameplay is important, so I want to put this point to you, not as an argument, but just as a point to consider.

 

There are 11 Infiltrators, 9 of which will share the same 4 ranks in every single build that every single BSNer or experienced player uses.  Every single one.  Unless mental illness is a factor.

 

There are only two worth considering for a different approach, and one of them (Huntress) is highly dubious.  The Shadow undeniably offers justification for a duration cloak, as it makes her more useful overall to the team without sacrificing much in the way of a usable damage boost.  Variety is the spice of life and all that.  It's a different way to learn to play.

 

So do you have any duration cloak infiltrators at all?

[The NightMan Cometh]

How Phantoms feel about my Shadow.............

 

[Terminator Force]

Sinful, as I've said before, subjective preferences are absolutely fine in my book, so I have no argument over your choices.  But like most of us, you seem to think that variety in gameplay is important, so I want to put this point to you, not as an argument, but just as a point to consider.

 

There are 11 Infiltrators, 9 of which will share the same 4 ranks in every single build that every single BSNer or experienced player uses.  Every single one.  Unless mental illness is a factor.

 

There are only two worth considering for a different approach, and one of them (Huntress) is highly dubious.  The Shadow undeniably offers justification for a duration cloak, as it makes her more useful overall to the team without sacrificing much in the way of a usable damage boost.  Variety is the spice of life and all that.  It's a different way to learn to play.

 

So do you have any duration cloak infiltrators at all?

 

No. .... Too much crutch. 

 

But seriously, duration is fine and it's not my argument on which one chooses. My build can still work with duration if I change SS for max power dmg (but then my regular melee, especially without ShotOmni, & weapon dmg would be weaker). My main focus with this build is for maxing ES for max encouragement to not totally ingnore the move like we all normally do otherwise (mainly due to higher combo detonations). Plus still maxing tac-cloak for bonus power and maxing Fitness for melee & speed/shield regen. Leaving me the only option to skip passives (which is no big deal on an Infiltrator). So that's basically my build. Skip passives and spec the rest to your liking.

 

 

I don't feel at all that Gold is place for experiments - at least not for most folks. Of course, if you're one of the top players, you can make anything work well enough to finish the game. But to me Silver is the sandbox (where anything works well enough), and Gold is the tryhard mode. Because I can feel very clearly if my kit works or not starting on wave 3, and it also soon becomes clear if the team is good enough to extract or not. Unlike Silver, not extracting is a real risk on Gold, and it happens at least 1 out of 5 or 6 (if I'm lucky) games.

Also, I notice that on Gold more people than not have good kits with lvl 3/4 consumables and maxed everything.

 

You'll feel that about Gold one day. And I'm not even a top player. But don't worry if you don't see it this way yet. It's for the better. As the game was much more enjoyable to me when Gold was from your current perspective. So don't rush it.

 

Last time I was playing I was also playing Gold with only level 1 consumables and Un-Common/Rare weapons on weaker kits focus + still carried weak pugs to victory as a team. But since I came back I still feel like a scrub so I'm usually still playing with top of the line weapons & consumables.

[Excella Gionne]

Krogan Shadow Strikes hurt a lot.

[The NightMan Cometh]

Krogan with Shadow Strike/ Tac. Cloak...^^^ I would imagine .....Full Melee ..with Melee Gear, Consumables and Omni-Blade..would do .....what  ...5,000 Damage???

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Shotgun omniblade is always the correct choice for a shadow.

 

There is no such thing as "always the correct choice" for any kit, any time, anywhere.* Especially not when it's as specific as a gun and mod.

 

There are a variety of choices for a reason. Playstyles are different. And for some people, shotguns just suck outright.

 

Besides, you didn't even take into account that the power amp on a pistol adds damage to SS as well as ES, making up some of the damage loss from the 25% difference in melee mod.

 

But whatever. As I've said many times now, I did my time in the trenches arguing with people over "there is only one acceptable build/loadout" and I have better things to do than beat my head against that particular wall.

 

 

*Except broken power evolutions, obviously.

[NuclearTech76]

Krogan Shadow Strikes hurt a lot.

Krolord Shadow Strike build. He travels through time and space with a goddamn hammer to rearrange your face. 

[7twozero]

another sinful force classic

[Terminator Force]

I don't get why one would need more melee dmg if you can still one shot all mooks with less. Unless you're only playing with melee and using a gun only as an omniblade carrier, to which I cannot relate and want no part of.

 

Infiltrators are also make the best melee kits because of agro dump and lol-insane tack-cloak dmg bonuses to the point where you don't even need to much or any fitness melee help.

[Shampoohorn]

Krogan Shadow Strikes hurt a lot.

 

 

Krogan picks up Shadow. 

 

Krogan strikes brute with Shadow. 

 

Wrex would approve.

 

[Chealec]

On the slight aside of duration-specced infiltrators, I also spec for duration and bonus power on the QMI... just so I can sneak behind enemy lines and flag everything up with area Tac-Scan without breaking cloak. Yes, it's another less than optimal build but what the hell I don't really do platinum.

 

Especially fun if there's a sniper on the team - run out, flag enemies with Tac-Scan and watch as their heads start popping; kind of like a Quarian laser-pointer.

[Terminator Force]

Hmm, I've been thinking of what Grunt said on having at least one infiltrator with duration. But I could only think of the Huntress while checking out that class. So thanks for another tip, Chealec. And do you or anyone else have any ideas on who else duration and/or bonus power could work on?

 

 

And I'm not entirely sure on how tac-cloak works on the Huntress;

- do the biotic booms get the tac-cloak bonus.

- if I use bonus power on her, does the second cast get tac-cloak bonus? And the biotic boom?

[7twozero]

Taking duration or bonus power on huntress is really gonna gimp her dark channel damage. Tc 4b and 6b give her 160% power damage, 4a with 6a only 60%. You'd be losing part of what makes her unique. You seem to like gimping your kits for no good reason though, and I realize at this point I'm an idiot for even telling you this, but somebody needs to say it.

[Terminator Force]

Taking duration or bonus power on huntress is really gonna gimp her dark channel damage. Tc 4b and 6b give her 160% power damage, 4a with 6a only 60%. You'd be losing part of what makes her unique. You seem to like gimping your kits for no good reason though, and I realize at this point I'm an idiot for even telling you this, but somebody needs to say it.

 

Who says build have to be permanent. And as is I barely touched the Huntress (why I'm asking these scrub questions), so I'm thinking why not mess around and see what happens?

 

And if you toss a power amp IV + weapon power mod and full power passives, taking away one of the tac-cloak bonuses doesn't put that much of a dent in her overall Dark Channel dot anyway.

[Dalakaar]

I tried dmg cloak and am running duration cloak. Duration cloak feels less hurried, I pick my targets. I can get off revives that I normally could not.

 

Dmg cloak was barely noticeable to me. But where my damage starts to go really lower is that I'm taking *time* to pick my targets.

 

Both are useful, I'd say I die less with duration but score less as a result.

 

With damage it's a faster paced game but higher risk.

[Krazy_Kirby]

There is no such thing as "always the correct choice" for any kit, any time, anywhere.* Especially not when it's as specific as a gun and mod.

There are a variety of choices for a reason. Playstyles are different. And for some people, shotguns just suck outright.

Besides, you didn't even take into account that the power amp on a pistol adds damage to SS as well as ES, making up some of the damage loss from the 25% difference in melee mod.

But whatever. As I've said many times now, I did my time in the trenches arguing with people over "there is only one acceptable build/loadout" and I have better things to do than beat my head against that particular wall.


*Except broken power evolutions, obviously.

but shotgun and omniblade will do more than pistol with stunner and power mod. Es doesn't need more power because it should rarely be used. (Also should never go past rank 3 as that is a waste of points)

[Krazy_Kirby]

I tried dmg cloak and am running duration cloak. Duration cloak feels less hurried, I pick my targets. I can get off revives that I normally could not.

Dmg cloak was barely noticeable to me. But where my damage starts to go really lower is that I'm taking *time* to pick my targets.

Both are useful, I'd say I die less with duration but score less as a result.

With damage it's a faster paced game but higher risk.

with the right build you can ohko a phantom on plat with duration, damage doesn't add much whereas duration allows for much farther ss and still being able to do another after you get there.

[Chealec]

but shotgun and omniblade will do more than pistol with stunner and power mod. Es doesn't need more power because it should rarely be used. (Also should never go past rank 3 as that is a waste of points)

 

Oh I dunno - I've got ES at 4 (passive at 4) and just joined a GiP which was Glacier/Collectors... with a Paladin on the team

 

Snap Freeze > ES combo ... totally worth it!

[Ardat-Yakshi Master Race]

Hmm, I've been thinking of what Grunt said on having at least one infiltrator with duration. But I could only think of the Huntress while checking out that class. So thanks for another tip, Chealec. And do you or anyone else have any ideas on who else duration and/or bonus power could work on?

 

 

And I'm not entirely sure on how tac-cloak works on the Huntress;

- do the biotic booms get the tac-cloak bonus.

- if I use bonus power on her, does the second cast get tac-cloak bonus? And the biotic boom?

OK, I have been tweaking my huntress a LOT lately, you DO want bonus power because you are able to actually put out detonations WAAAAY faster, therefore removing that drop in damage.... ALSO, you DON'T want duration! the 5 second cloak is enough to send out a volley with full perks and mega detonations! (as long as you don't do something stupid with weapons like use a claymore)

[Terminator Force]

Armour & Barrier dmg of Huntress Dark Channel with Geth Scanner and max power help from all other sources. ie http://kalence.drupa...34N54384!AAFE.K

 

985 1313 = with dmg & dmg

894 1192 = with dmg & bonus power

849 1142 = with duration & dmg

758 1011 = with duration & bonus power

 

OK, I have been tweaking my huntress a LOT lately, you DO want bonus power because you are able to actually put out detonations WAAAAY faster, therefore removing that drop in damage.... ALSO, you DON'T want duration! the 5 second cloak is enough to send out a volley with full perks and mega detonations! (as long as you don't do something stupid with weapons like use a claymore)

 

Yes, I noticed that bonus power faster cooldown too while messing around with her in Kalance as I wrote above.

 

I really wanted to see if I can make duration work on her, but no. It's either duration or bonus power. Not both. And bonus power is clearly the best route on paper for the huntress when going for optimum.

 

 

The search for duration usefulness continues...