556 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaison1986]

Well, Alistair can be pretty judgmental, sometimes hypocrital (see his views about the Grey wardens then compare it to his views about Golems), and he also deserts if you choose duty over revenge.

[Andromelek]

Well, Alistair can be pretty judgmental, sometimes hypocrital (see his views about the Grey wardens then compare it to his views about Golems), and he also deserts if you choose duty over revenge.

He also blames you for doing things he suggested, in general he wants to point with the finger someone to blame him/her for what's going wrong on his life and let's not forget he betrayed and murdered a woman who saved him just for daring to asking him a favour, and then he used some delusion on his little head to justify his blind hate.

Edit: He's also too hypocrite on being tired of being a pawn, he is pretty cool being Eamon's

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

I never get why so many people like Alistair, and consider him the Warden's best friend tbh. He has never done anything for the Warden, unless you romance him maybe. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

He also blames you for doing things he suggested, in general he wants to point with the finger someone to blame him/her for what's going wrong on his life and let's not forget he betrayed and murdered a woman who saved him just for daring to asking him a favour, and then he used some delusion on his little head to justify his blind hate.

Edit: He's also too hypocrite on being tired of being a pawn, he is pretty cool being Eamon's

You mean woman who tried to use him and was posed threat to society?

[BloodKaiden]

I'm surprised more people didn't mention Carver. It's kind of unusual in any BioWare game to have a character who holds a pre-existing relationship with your protagonist, let alone such an antagonistic relationship. As far as I'm aware, isn't it even impossible to become friends with him in the game? Dude is just a thorn in Hawke's side from the first minute and almost never lets up, no matter how diplomatic you attempt to be with him (my Hawke was a wiseass, but still valued family and tried to keep the peace). And the thing is, it's never even totally clear why he's so annoyed all the time--it seems to go well beyond merely having to live in the shadow of his older sister (sorry--Hawke is a female to me and always will be--just like Shepard!).
 
I didn't hate him, but he certainly doesn't go out of his way to ingratiate himself to the player. Ever.

Carver was my preferred sibling out of the two. I can see if you play a diplomatic Hawke how he could be annoying but I rarely ever did. I like the entire take on their sibling relationship whether you were playing a fem or Male Hawke. It was the more interesting of the two for me. Carver was actually a sane character that wanted to do something meaningful with his life rather than follow in the shadow of Hawke like a lost puppy. And he actually does it with the Templar path, more so than the forced Warden. I got mad respect for him for that. The rivalry between the siblings was evident but you could tell he really loved his family despite being a mundane in a magical bloodline fam. I really liked him in the Legacy DLC after he is a Templar.

[Qun00]

I never get why so many people like Alistair, and consider him the Warden's best friend tbh. He has never done anything for the Warden, unless you romance him maybe.

Not in the way of favors, perhaps, but he is the kinda guy that would stand for you.

When you meet Goldanna as a Dalish Warden, she asks "who is that elf? Some servant to carry your riches?" and Alistair immediately tells her that's his friend and she shouldn't talk like that.

[berelinde]

He also blames you for doing things he suggested, in general he wants to point with the finger someone to blame him/her for what's going wrong on his life and let's not forget he betrayed and murdered a woman who saved him just for daring to asking him a favour, and then he used some delusion on his little head to justify his blind hate.

Edit: He's also too hypocrite on being tired of being a pawn, he is pretty cool being Eamon's

Wait, what? Who did Alistair murder?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Wait, what? Who did Alistair murder?

He talks about Yavana.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

Not in the way of favors, perhaps, but he is the kinda guy that would stand for you.

When you meet Goldanna as a Dalish Warden, she asks "who is that elf? Some servant to carry your riches?" and Alistair immediately tells her that's his friend and she shouldn't talk like that.

I suppose he did stand for you when you meet Goldanna eh...regardless of your race and origin since that blasted Nug humper still call my Aeducan "some dwarf to carry Alistair's riches". I feel like I need to point this out though, in this situation there is a dialogue option where you can pick for the Warden to defend Alistair. I think both the Warden and Alistair would stand for each other, but that being said for the entire course of the game you can be the Warden who babysits and help Alistair while he's barely done anything for you, well aside from Goldanna's scene you mentioned I haven't seen Alistair doing anything else for the Warden, while our Warden can do tons personally for Alistair such as cheer him up, encourage him to look for himself, help defend his childhood home and save Eamon's entire family, find Duncan's memento for him and so forth.

 

Don't mistake me for a hater though, and if I forgot some detail please remind me. 

[Qun00]

In all fairness, the other companions don't do anything for you either. These games usually are about you doing stuff for them.

Alistair does offer you a position when he becomes king though, if that counts. But overall, I don't think the definition of friendship is that complicated.

Its pillars are appreciation and trust, both of which are shown over the course of the game.

Beyond that, I do like the fact that he was there since the beginning. You've been through a lot together.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

In all fairness, the other companions don't do anything for you either. These games usually are about you doing stuff for them.

Alistair does offer you a position when he becomes king though, if that counts. But overall, I don't think the definition of friendship is that complicated.

Its pillars are appreciation and trust, both of which are shown over the course of the game.

Beyond that, I do like the fact that he was there since the beginning. You've been through a lot together.

Heh, fair enough.

 

I think it's debatable whether it's a gesture of friendship or purely political, maybe it's lean forward more on friendship side. Aye, you do have a good point. Eh, I still can't help but feel mildly frustrated about a few things he's done or say to my Warden though.

[Forsythia77]

Carver was my preferred sibling out of the two. I can see if you play a diplomatic Hawke how he could be annoying but I rarely ever did. I like the entire take on their sibling relationship whether you were playing a fem or Male Hawke. It was the more interesting of the two for me. Carver was actually a sane character that wanted to do something meaningful with his life rather than follow in the shadow of Hawke like a lost puppy. And he actually does it with the Templar path, more so than the forced Warden. I got mad respect for him for that. The rivalry between the siblings was evident but you could tell he really loved his family despite being a mundane in a magical bloodline fam. I really liked him in the Legacy DLC after he is a Templar.

 

I typically play DA2 as a rogue or warrior so Carver will get killed.  I really don't like him.  He's the biggest whiner and can't seem to get out of his own headspace in regard to Marian (or whatever the male Hawke is named.  I never play as a dude).  And honestly it would make more sense to me if Marian were competitive with Carver but she's not (I typically play her as diplomatic or sarcastic, so I can't comment on the angry responses).  He's just got a chip on his shoulder about not being a mage in a family full of mages and always being in a non-existent shadow because he is too inept to do anything about it until halfway through the game.  He blames others for his failures - blames Aveline for sabotaging his application to the guard.  But my dislike of him doesn't eclipse my hatred of Sebastian. 

 

I will say he isn't insane though (in a game series full of crazy he is decidedly not crazy).  And no matter how far to the rivalry side things get he will still have your back in the end.  And I respect that. 

[Aren]

Well, Alistair can be pretty judgmental, sometimes hypocrital (see his views about the Grey wardens then compare it to his views about Golems), and he also deserts if you choose duty over revenge.

I don't have any problem in substitute Alistair for Loghain,at least the latter is redeemable or alternatively a constant improvement,tbh before that someone wish to start a flame war over Loghain,yes i did spare him,a man who has done so much in his past deserve a 2nd chance more than any other GW recruit.

i see only advantages in sparing him

1)dismiss AListair which is a benefit for me (he is mandatory until that point)

2)ELiminate an AD without relying on Flemeth's magic and without sparing him.

3)Have more inside on a new fresh character at that point of the adventure

4)Beautiful banter with Dog,Sten ,Zevran and Wynne at return to Ostagar,emotional impact on forcing Loghain to watch Cailan.

[berelinde]

He talks about Yavana.

Oh, that. I wouldn't describe that as murder, exactly, but whatever. When someone's mind is made up, the facts will seldom convince them otherwise.

[Andromelek]

You mean woman who tried to use him and was posed threat to society?

So, are you going to fall into the "dubious goal, manipulative witch and dangerous dragons" again? Manipulative and dangerous my ass!

A dude shared me her codex entry from WOT 2, and it happens that she not only has not struck down someone who didn't messed with her or her dragons first, it turns to be that she and her Dragon are among the main reasons behind of why the Qunari couldn't seize Antiva, and she wasn't manipulating all the time, she tried to send Alistair back to home more than once, and even on this stage he was too disrespectful at her, he even attempted to kill her and he didn't knew anything about her, beside, with such power she could just force him to do what she wanted but instead she offered more, without even doing mention of what she already did for him.

Alistair is pretty cool enjoying the life the Witches saved but he is right about killing them and speaking crap of them without even regretting it because saving lives doesn't count if you are a mysterious clever apostate. Right?

Seriously, seeing a ton of dudes standing for a selfish traitor to the point to make him the most overrated character on the franchise but using "dubious morals" to justify someone has to be murdered it's something that just sicken me.

Not in the way of favors, perhaps, but he is the kinda guy that would stand for you.
When you meet Goldanna as a Dalish Warden, she asks "who is that elf? Some servant to carry your riches?" and Alistair immediately tells her that's his friend and she shouldn't talk like that.

Yeah, he's a "bro" until you decide you need more numbers to win the battle and spare the dude who wronged him to do so, then he doesn't only forgets you are a friend but he shows that he cares a crap about Ferelden being consumed by the Blight if he doesn't has his vengeance, I can't understand Teagan searching him after leaving his country to its fate, some people just aren't worth to be saved.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

4)Beautiful banter with Dog,Sten ,Zevran and Wynne at return to Ostagar,emotional impact on forcing Loghain to watch Cailan.

One would enjoy the banters involving Loghain, Wynne, Sten and Dog was my favorite. I had a good laugh with Zevran one as well. 

[Aren]

In all fairness, the other companions don't do anything for you either. These games usually are about you doing stuff for them.
 

Ehi at least Wynne try to talk with the Warden,unlike the other companions ,she didn't ask any favor to the Warden unless you wish to help her to met her old apprentice,but is a trivial task,nothing dangerous,while in return she aid the Warden freely and even take care of the dog,No GW duties to absolve,or honor,or protection from the crows or secret agenda are involved,just a genuine and great woman who wish to help.

Wynne is magnificent.

[Aren]

Oh, that. I wouldn't describe that as murder, exactly, but whatever. When someone's mind is made up, the facts will seldom convince them otherwise.

btb a sword into the belly? It's murder,and Yavana was not even so annoying like Morrigan,AListair is mad.

[TheKomandorShepard]

So, are you going to fall into the "dubious goal, manipulative witch and dangerous dragons" again? Manipulative and dangerous my ass!

A dude shared me her codex entry from WOT 2, and it happens that she not only one has not struck down someone who didn't messed with her or her dragons first, it turns to be that she and her Dragon are among the main reasons behind of why the Qunari couldn't seize Antiva, and she wasn't manipulating all the time, she tried to send Alistair back to home more than once, and even on this stage he was too disrespectful at her, he even attempted to kill her and he didn't knew anything about her, beside, with such power she could just force him to do what she wanted but instead she offered more, without even doing mention of what she already did for him.

Alistair is pretty cool enjoying the life the Witches saved but he is right about killing them and speaking crap of them without even regretting it because saving lives doesn't count if you are a mysterious clever apostate. Right?

Seriously, seeing a ton of dudes standing for a selfish traitor to the point to make him the most overrated character on the franchise but using "dubious morals" to justify someone has to be murdered it's something that just sicken me.

 

Yes ,i will she even admited she is manipulative and for certain she was danger to society ,avoding that she dabbled in forbidden magic what is more than sufficient reason to shank somone in da world.

 

Also that somone "saved" you doesn't mean that person is your best friend or nice girl in first place she didn't give crap about alistair and didn't want to help him in first place and didn't help him because she had kind heart , she saved him because she wanted to use him. 

 

Also he didn't murdered her only killed her she was maleficar what pretty much means death sentence.

[Andromelek]

Yes ,i will she even admited she is manipulative and for certain she was danger to society ,avoding that she dabbled in forbidden magic what is more than sufficient reason to shank somone in da world.

Also that somone "saved" you doesn't mean that person is your best friend or nice girl in first place she didn't give crap about alistair and didn't want to help him in first place and didn't help him because she had kind heart , she saved him because she wanted to use him.

Also he didn't murdered her only killed her she was maleficar what pretty much means death sentence.

Killing an unarmed woman, that saved you without making any emphasis on it, that saved your father and your father trusted, that shared the name of the kidnaper, never used insults and even admitted part of her fault, allowing insults and threats, and ultimately trusted you to tell you about her goal rather than play the "I'll kill your friends card" or "the horny girl card" is capital B Betrayal and capital M Murdering.

Sometimes I wonder if the other traitors like Loghain, Branka, the Illusive Man, Guilty Spark, emperors Sun Li and Palpatine are only hated because people lacks of criteria and hate the "bad guys" but accepts and protect the same crap introduced on the "good guys team", all the poor excuses you Alistair fans use to excuse your "hero" pretty much fit to stand for some villain at the Primordial's level, and even the Primordial has more plausible reasons and rights to do the atrocities he does, without falling into treachery

[TheKomandorShepard]

Killing an unarmed woman, that saved you without making any emphasis on it, that saved your father and your father trusted, that shared the name of the kidnaper, never used insults and even admitted part of her fault, allowing insults and threats, and ultimately trusted you to tell you about her goal rather than play the "I'll kill your friends card" or "the horny girl card" is capital B Betrayal and capital M Murdering.

Sometimes I wonder if the other traitors like Loghain, Branka, the Illusive Man, Guilty Spark, emperors Sun Li and Palpatine are only hated because people lacks of criteria and hate the "bad guys" but accepts and protect the same crap introduced on the "good guys team", all the poor excuses you Alistair fans use to excuse your "hero" pretty much fit to stand for some villain at the Primordial's level, and even the Primordial has more plausible reasons and rights to do the atrocities he does, without falling into treachery

 

First she was unarmed but doesn't mean she was harmless she was mage thus she didn't had to have weapon as mage inquisitor can point to Cassandra.Second you ignored what i said she saved him because she wanted use him not because she was nice and kind girl.Third as i said she was Maleficar and they are pretty much automatically sentenced to death thus killing her wasn't crime and by that not murder.So yes pretty much she tried to use him and manipulate for questionable goals that i already have explained ,he had more than one reason to shank her.

 

You seem to be a little biased (to put it lightly) when it comes to alistair considering that you called him mage hater if i recall when it was far from truth. 

[Andromelek]

First she was unarmed but doesn't mean she was harmless she was mage thus she didn't had to have weapon as mage inquisitor can point to Cassandra.Second you ignored what i said she saved him because she wanted use him not because she was nice and kind girl.Third as i said she was Maleficar and they are pretty much automatically sentenced to death thus killing her wasn't crime and by that not murder.So yes pretty much she tried to use him and manipulate for questionable goals that i already have explained ,he had more than one reason to shank her.

You seem to be a little biased (to put it lightly) when it comes to alistair considering that you called him mage hater if i recall when it was far from truth.

If I'm little biased, I wonder what are you? I didn't called him mage hater directly, I seconded the comment because indeed back to Origins he is bent to go after mages on the conflicts, even when a normal person has most fault like Isolde.

Second, you didn't read, did you? I pointed out that she tried to send Alistair back to home more than once, in fact she wouldn't need him, with Claudio's dead, the only thing she had to do was to wait until they leave to interrogate Claudio, she had the chance to find out Titus name without sharing it and go to save Maric herself, and we are just focusing on Yavana, aren't we?

I haven't ignored the fact that you have only posted excuses, attacking Yavana to make see your hero pretty, but you haven't said anything that can apology him from turning his back on Ferelden, in fact, the whole comics plot would never happen if he would be a responsible King, he left a country on crisis to possibly find a sack of bones, the country he claims to love doesn't seem to be getting all his attention.

But of course, he is the "good guy" so killing him for leaving and being a threat for Ferelden is something monstrous and illogical but killing a witch whose only crime has been try to fulfil a task that should fall on her mother's shoulders just just because the uncertainty of what the Dragons will do (I have to recall that it's only on the player's head, Alistair was thinking on apply the Architect's mistake and Loghain's faults on Yavana when he murdered her) is something good.

Finally, I don't remember anyone being double crossed and hurt by a Witch of the Wilds, your argument of apostasy applies to Dalish too, they also know blood magic and they aren't screwing around, and if I remember correctly, rogue Wardens and rogue Templars are also illegal to the point to be chased down.

I'm afraid there is no argument to change what Alistair is: a fool, a traitor, an hypocrite and lame being risen from a fool mother whose mistakes ruined the lives of many persons, you are free to seek another excuse for your hero, but there is a reason of why traitors shall burn on the ninth circle of hell, whoever Yavana, Ferelden or HoF, take the one you please, Alistair is a traitor and unlike Loghain, he doesn't even count with the logic's support.

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

Bull can be hated from a Qunari perspective I guess, devs said something like that he is the opposite to Sten. Also for being a promiscuous character like Isabella and Zev.

 

Wait... say again?  I mean I guess it's your opinion so it can be however you like it, but how does being promiscuous make someone unlikable?  Is it a religious thing?  I don't get it... 
 

[Darkly Tranquil]

The only character I can honestly say I "hated" is Sera, she just grated on my nerves so much I couldn't stand dealing with her. While there were other characters I found boring or irritating, she was the only one I truly couldn't tolerate.

[Andres Hendrix]

Mother Dorothea says it best during the Leliana's song DLC.

Leliana initially blames the whole situation on her because she gave Marjolaine the documents.

Then the revered mother reminds the former that she is also at fault since "When someone uses your weakness against you, that still is your weakness."

And again, Hawke isn't in charge of Merril's life. She is accountable for her own decisions.

Precisely. People with the purity you ascribe to Merril wouldn't have the required malice to be sarcastic towards someone. And least of all, unprovoked like she does with Aveline.

I see. You did not quote me; therefore I did not get a message for this. Well, the first part is Dorethea shifting blame, everyone has a weakness, and not everyone preys on other peoples weaknesses, or accepts their own. I did not say Hawke was in charge of Merrill's life, only that as a friend he can help her through her troubles, or he can make it much worst, people who don't like Merrill just make the situation worst, instead of making it better. They don't understand that she is being manipulated by a Demon, and then usually go so far as killing her, instead of helping her. I'm not sure where you get the idea that irony or sarcasm somehow = malice, P.G. Wodehouse was known to be a very innocent person, and he was a master of irony. Moreover, Aveline blatantly called Merrill a stupid person, which she is not (in fact her knowledge and intelligence are being exploited by a powerful demon) so she was not unprovoked.