556 réponses à ce sujet

[sorentoft]

You keep stating these "facts" but I can't agree as I see a very interesting character. Did you take her out with you? Hear her banter? Keep checking back on her (constantly evolving) Cabinet of Wonder Whose it Was? There's plenty to her.

 

If you're going to make criticisms about tying to the main plot of the game what about Blackwall? His whole plot is that he's a liar and his help other than as a warrior turns out essentially to be useless. Even Varric only really serves to introduce us to Hawke, which could easily have been done another way. Besides that, it's all just personal stuff. I wouldn't want either to be dropped from the game, though.

They're not necessarily facts. I am stating my opinion and backing it up with arguments (because otherwise why would I hold it?). Yes I have taken Sera out with me, romanced her, done her quests, etc. She is a shallow character. Anyway, moving on:

 

Varric is tied strongly into the game. Not only does he introduce you to Hawke, who is the source of the whole debacle with Corypheus, but he is also responsible for the red lyrium resurfacing by proxy of Bianca.

 

Blackwall, unlike Sera, actually has a story worth telling and he ties into the Grey Wardens. He ties in as exposition to players who are new to the world of Thedas as to just what a Grey Warden is.

 

Since you are so vehemently defending Sera, I've got to ask, do you think I have held my standards for companions too high given what we have had in previous titles? Don't you think we can reasonably expect by now that companions are properly fleshed out? I mean come on, she has less of a story than Kasumi!

 

I dunno. I think it's totally worth it to have at least one character that mocks Solas' elfiness, especially that crack about "walking on dead elves". Without her, I feel like there wouldn't be enough irreverence.

Honestly I don't think that alone is a reason to invest resources into Sera. She'd need to be a bit more than the antithesis of Solas, which she isn't.

[YourFunnyUncle]

Since you are so vehemently defending Sera, I've got to ask, do you think I have held my standards for companions too high given what we have had in previous titles? Don't you think we can reasonably expect by now that companions are properly fleshed out? I mean come on, she has less of a story than Kasumi!

The point with Sera is precisely that she's a bit mysterious. She's really reticent to tell you about herself because she doesn't trust people not to put her down and basically dismiss her. She's developed a combative and evasive facade because no one will accept her for who she is. It's that lack of definition that makes her interesting to me. You have to pay attention to little details and figure her out. I'm sure it's intentional on the part of the writers. It wouldn't work if they made every character that way, but I found her really refreshing and interesting.

In the end the point is that you need to accept her for who she is and not try to change her. That's a refreshing take on a companion to me, although clearly it rubs some people up the wrong way.

[Melbella]

In the end the point is that you need to accept her for who she is and not try to change her. That's a refreshing take on a companion to me, although clearly it rubs some people up the wrong way.

Sigh....if only she would return that acceptance in kind. Still, she's alright as a friend (and I like the cookie scene) but I have no interest in romancing her. I can't even RP a character who willingly chooses to put their head in the sand.

[YourFunnyUncle]

Sigh....if only she would return that acceptance in kind. Still, she's alright as a friend (and I like the cookie scene) but I have no interest in romancing her. I can't even RP a character who willingly chooses to put their head in the sand.

It's because she's spent all her life being told that she's wrong and not "a real elf". She's developed an abrasive shell, and that's not going to disappear in the timeframe of DAI. I suspect that she might mellow given time in an accepting environment. Maybe we'll see that in the new DLC...

[daveliam]

I've got a few:

 

DA: O - Zevran, Oghren

DA: A - Oghren, Justice, Velanna

DA2 - Sebastian

DA: I - Sera

 

If I had to order them, I'd go:

 

Oghren, Sebastian, Justice, Zevran, Velanna, Sera

[sandalisthemaker]

Do they have to be companions?

 

Because my least favorite character is Bianca by a mile. I make Cassandra's *disgusted noise* every time Varric's "Well Sh*t" quest rolls around.

[sorentoft]

The point with Sera is precisely that she's a bit mysterious. She's really reticent to tell you about herself because she doesn't trust people not to put her down and basically dismiss her. She's developed a combative and evasive facade because no one will accept her for who she is. It's that lack of definition that makes her interesting to me. You have to pay attention to little details and figure her out. I'm sure it's intentional on the part of the writers. It wouldn't work if they made every character that way, but I found her really refreshing and interesting.

In the end the point is that you need to accept her for who she is and not try to change her. That's a refreshing take on a companion to me, although clearly it rubs some people up the wrong way.

That's not really my problem with her character, it's that she is severely undeveloped. She does not have a story to speak of. You help her with one noble and that's basically it. No character development, no impact on the inquisition, no impact on the Red Jenny thingy and not to mention how poorly executed that little mission was. It might as well not have been there.

[YourFunnyUncle]

That's not really my problem with her character, it's that she is severely undeveloped. She does not have a story to speak of. You help her with one noble and that's basically it. No character development, no impact on the inquisition, no impact on the Red Jenny thingy and not to mention how poorly executed that little mission was. It might as well not have been there.

But that's not it by a long shot. There's her whole prank quest. There's her reaction after Mythal where she points an arrow at you if you drank from the well of Sorrows. There's the bit in her romance where she dreams that you're dead and freaks out. There are all the little hints throughout the game about the mischief she gets up to around Skyhold. There's her story about her foster mother on the roof.  In Jaws of Hakkon there are various reactions to the story of Ameridan and to the quest to help the guy who can't perform the ritual for his dead father that really reinforce her character. You're really underselling her, and as far as I can see it's just because you just don't like her personal story. That's fair enough but I will not accept that she is under-written or badly written.

[Qun00]

But that's not it by a long shot. There's her whole prank quest. There's her reaction after Mythal where she points an arrow at you if you drank from the well of Sorrows. There's the bit in her romance where she dreams that you're dead and freaks out. There are all the little hints throughout the game about the mischief she gets up to around Skyhold. There's her story about her foster mother on the roof. In Jaws of Hakkon there are various reactions to the story of Ameridan and to the quest to help the guy who can't perform the ritual for his dead father that really reinforce her character. You're really underselling her, and as far as I can see it's just because you just don't like her personal story. That's fair enough but I will not accept that she is under-written or badly written.

In short, things which people who hate Sera don't get to see because it requires raising her approval.

I would like to add one character to my previous list. Rasaan is a base animal, it would please me greatly to put her down in Trespasser.

It would please me greatly to romance her in Trespasser.

[Cyrus Amell]

Carver would perhaps be my first choice if we are speaking solely about companions. But my most hated character of all time would have to be Knight-Commander Meredith, who could very well write the book on how to be the worst templar ever. Where to begin? Her Red Lyrium Sword looks like it was meant for Flemeth, which is to say a witch whose sense of style was developed in a swamp. I mean really, what the hell is up with that thing? Was it a Halloween Special?

 

But even before that ugly sword popped up on her back with no fan-fair, the Knight Commander was making mages tranquil for the pettiest offenses. She had Maddox made tranquil for smuggling letters through Samson and apparently other mages for even less. Her in-character reason for this is that her sister developed magical talents but was sheltered by her parents before turning into an abomination and slaughtering most of the village. An excellent background that could have been wonderfully fitted into a more nuanced character but in the case of Meredith is never once addressed as she bludgeons home the maxim "this is the only way." And despite her utterly draconian policies Kirkwall is still brimming with blood mages, including an entire gang in Hightown of all places that it falls to Hawke and his neighborhood watch group to deal with in their spare time. 

 

Her obtuse involvement in Kirkwall's politics is another source of exasperation as she never states an end-goal (although this is after she gets the sword). And in the end of the game when Anders walks right in front of her and blows up the Chantry, declaring loudly and for all to hear his intentions, she just wanders off to kill every other mage in the city. Was that a sign of on-coming dementia or the red lyrium?

 

So much more could have been done with Meredith's character, but she is never more than a brick wall for the players to bang their heads against until they finally reach for a sledgehammer. 

[sorentoft]

But that's not it by a long shot. There's her whole prank quest. There's her reaction after Mythal where she points an arrow at you if you drank from the well of Sorrows. There's the bit in her romance where she dreams that you're dead and freaks out. There are all the little hints throughout the game about the mischief she gets up to around Skyhold. There's her story about her foster mother on the roof.  In Jaws of Hakkon there are various reactions to the story of Ameridan and to the quest to help the guy who can't perform the ritual for his dead father that really reinforce her character. You're really underselling her, and as far as I can see it's just because you just don't like her personal story. That's fair enough but I will not accept that she is under-written or badly written.

That's your opinion, man. My opinion is that if something does not actually come in the form of say a quest and involves more than just that one character, then it is just extra goodies. And, yes, Sera has that like every other companion. However to me that is not what makes a companion. Maybe it's just because I started playing Bioware games with ME2, but personal quests I think are key to expanding a character and they truly dropped the ball in Sera's personal quest. All you have with Sera, really, is side story and that's no story at all. Personally I don't think I am underselling her at all, rather you try to raise her to heights that she cannot possibly reach.

[KaiserShep]

Honestly I don't think that alone is a reason to invest resources into Sera. She'd need to be a bit more than the antithesis of Solas, which she isn't.

Fair enough, though that's not my only reason for enjoying this character's addition to the game. But I guess that's the joy of optional companions. In every DA game there's always that one follower that someone hates, so whatevs (I am grateful that the one I dislike the most is the one I an execute. See you in the void, Anders). I don't really care about the whole resource allocation thing.

[Steelcan]

Sera or DA2 Anders

[The Baconer]

It would please me greatly to romance her in Trespasser.

 

Someone would have to take the brain-bleach. I'm not sure if you could call it a romance by then.

[segurissima]

Do they have to be companions?
 
Because my least favorite character is Bianca by a mile. I make Cassandra's *disgusted noise* every time Varric's "Well Sh*t" quest rolls around.

+1...I cant stand her...and Dagna, I avoid talking to her overall.

[sorentoft]

Fair enough, though that's not my only reason for enjoying this character's addition to the game. But I guess that's the joy of optional companions. In every DA game there's always that one follower that someone hates, so whatevs (I am grateful that the one I dislike the most is the one I an execute. See you in the void, Anders). I don't really care about the whole resource allocation thing.

Well, I only care about the resource thing in this topic really. When you discuss your least favorite characters then I, at least, always come to wonder if it took development away from the characters I do enjoy or if I might enjoy those characters a bit more if they had more work put into them. I mean, I do use Sera from time to time. I tend to switch up my companions fairly often.

[Sifr]

Zevran actually had a plot and was involved with one of the villains of the game. Sera does not. I'm well aware of the reasons the game gives for her appearance, but still I have to ask, is she worth the development time given what we got? And I have to say 'no' every time. She is by far the worst and least developed companion character we have had in every Dragon Age title. If they had actually worked a bit more on the Robin Hood angle, given it a reasonable plot, I might not hold that opinion, but they didn't and thus I do.

 

Sera might not grow as a character all that much, but she does at least get some development if you pursue a friendship and/or relationship with her, which gives her a lot more complexity and depth... much like Zevran in Origins, if you similarly took the time to get to know him.

 

While Zevran was somewhat more plot revelant in Origins than Sera is in Inquisition, they both at least share the similarity that taking the time to get to know them allows us to understand what makes them tick.

 

Vivienne on the other hand, does not have any such real arc, nor undergoes any kind of character development over the course of the entire game, even if she becomes the Divine. She seems rather divorced from the overall plot of the game, she has no relevance to the resolution of the Mage-Templar storyline or in Halamshiral, both of which you would think she should have had some significance.

 

Like Sera, she's very closed off but unfortunately she stays that way and we never really get to know much about her and what makes her tick as a person, underneath the public persona of the indomitable "Madame de Fer". As such, it always felt (to me at least) that her friendship with the Inquisitor didn't seem all that genuine, as we had no reason to believe she wasn't simply ingratiating herself with us to increase her power, especially when it came to conversations that discussed the possibility of the next Divine.

 

I think my real dislike of Vivienne's character is that she gives me no real reason to care about her and why she's in the Inquistion. Sera at least joined because she wants to help, whereas Vivienne joined because she wants to help herself.

 

(As an aside, Sera being involved in some kind of plotline involving the already Robin Hood-esque Fairbanks really writes itself... how did Bioware miss it?)

[Bowie Hawkins]

Yeah, I played the game. Does any of that backstory factor into the game at all? No? Then she practically has no story to speak of. 

 

It all factors into it, so you're wrong about how much story she has.

[FiveThreeTen]

I can see why he lashed out against his duty, which is why I called him a brat. Even though I realize that he might not have been able to understand his situation as a kid, it was still a ****** move for him to bully his classmates, but as an adult, he definitely should've realized his importance to his family and acted accordingly. He had years to deal with his emotions yet was still lashing out as an adult over something many people in Thedas engage in. I mean, Emperor Florian was in Dorian's same position, being gay and a noble, and yet he was still able to sire a child for the sake of his family and nation. Similarly, you can force Alistair and Anora into a marriage they don't want, for the sake of Fereldan, and Sebastian into being prince of Starkhaven, even if he still wanted to be in service to the chantry. Dorian's situation is hardly unique and yet he wants to have his cake and eat it to, with little regard for anyone else's, especially his own family.

Lady Mantillon was Emperor Florian's lover (confirmed).  They were rumors he was involved with his (male cousin) (so not confirmed, but likely). So he was either bisexual or straight. Plus, after his first daughter died in infancy, he didn't sire any other heir and it's heavily implied it was out of grief over the loss of his child and not because of his rumored preferences.

 

Alistair and Anora are indeed an arranged marriage, but they both agree to it with little persuasion from the Warden. So I tend to view it as a little less gross. Don't get me wrong, I find the very concept of arranged marriage gross, but the willingness of both parties can alleviate that . And I'll even venture they have the potential to make a great pairing. Plus they are both straight, since you're specifically talking about Dorian, so yeah, I'll go there.

 

As for Sebastian, hum, even with his lack of content, you can tell he is questioning himself even before Hawke enters the picture. But I don't know enough of Sebastian rivalry and romance content to really answer beyond that.

 

Anyway, I think it actually makes Dorian a stronger character that he refused to just "deal with it".

[Illegitimus]

Blackwall is so much my least favourite Inquisition character, that I forget he existed the first time I was thinking about this question.  

[sorentoft]

Sera might not grow as a character all that much, but she does at least get some development if you pursue a friendship and/or relationship with her, which gives her a lot more complexity and depth... much like Zevran in Origins, if you similarly took the time to get to know him.

 

While Zevran was somewhat more plot revelant in Origins than Sera is in Inquisition, they both at least share the similarity that taking the time to get to know them allows us to understand what makes them tick.

 

Vivienne on the other hand, does not have any such real arc, nor undergoes any kind of character development over the course of the entire game, even if she becomes the Divine. She seems rather divorced from the overall plot of the game, she has no relevance to the resolution of the Mage-Templar storyline or in Halamshiral, both of which you would think she should have had some significance.

 

Like Sera, she's very closed off but unfortunately she stays that way and we never really get to know much about her and what makes her tick as a person, underneath the public persona of the indomitable "Madame de Fer". As such, it always felt (to me at least) that her friendship with the Inquisitor didn't seem all that genuine, as we had no reason to believe she wasn't simply ingratiating herself with us to increase her power, especially when it came to conversations that discussed the possibility of the next Divine.

 

I think my real dislike of Vivienne's character is that she gives me no real reason to care about her and why she's in the Inquistion. Sera at least joined because she wants to help, whereas Vivienne joined because she wants to help herself.

 

(As an aside, Sera being involved in some kind of plotline involving the already Robin Hood-esque Fairbanks really writes itself... how did Bioware miss it?)

Unlike Zevran then Sera does not really tie into the story all that well and her story is poorly written at that. Zevran on the other hand does, like Dorian, manage to not just tie into the story, but actually introduce a whole nation of Thedas to the player. Not just that, but he also introduce the Crows and if you've never played the game before then you don't exactly know if you can trust him or not. Are you going to wake up with a knife on your throat? That element which Zevran had, which made it entirely reasonable to kill him, makes him a superior character to Sera. And let's be clear, it's not because I like his personality more than I like the personality of Sera (Because I like her personality, she is just a poor character without any real story to her). Anyhows, moving on:

 

I agree on Viv, that's also why she is one of my least favorite characters. She would be in a so much better position as an adviser and not a companion. It makes far more sense for her character.

 

Also yes on Fairbanks. Seriously. Wouldn't she be far more interesting if she was involved in that?

 

On that note. Bioware's strength in storytelling lies in the companion characters, and wouldn't the zones be a lot better for it if the companions were actively involved in them other than just having a bunch of side quests? We've got some examples in the Hinterlands of this - The first elven artifact mission. What if these plots were a bit more intricate than "smash lyrium" and "click artifact". We could have Cassandra actively concerned about the cult in the Hinterlands. Sera giving a **** about dragging that damn animal home to its farm or feeding the people. Cullen being angry at rogue templars, come on. Anyway, I'm just rambling now.

 

It all factors into it, so you're wrong about how much story she has.

That's your opinion and I am not here to be an evangelist.

[Asdrubael Vect]

   DAO

 

Lelianna-kill

Zevran-kill

Wynne-not respect or care a bit about her.

 

   DA2

 

Sebastian-want to kill

Tallis-want to kill

Fenris-always give him to Danarius

 

Anders-was much better in DAA, a pity that he is not give us the option to burn the Orlais Chantry with templars ourselfs

 

  DAI-almost everyone, the game surprise me with this fact that i hate a lot of Inquisition members-companions and some available allies, hate them much more than almost most of my enemies, except Orlesians=) i would rather have some agents as my companions and LI.

 

Lelianna-want to kill her again

Cullen-want to kill him since DAO and especially in DA2 and DAI, i hope he will die because of lyrium

 

Cole-the worst thing ever and devs even not just not give us option to kill him, they erase everyone memory.

Sera-second the worst thing ever, and i not have option to kill that peasant sh*t, send her far away

Vivienne-worst then Wynne, not have option to kill and never care or respect, will see what a mage Divine she will become

Dorian-not have option to kill and never care or respect him, send him far away

 

 

Cassandra-not have option to inprison her, and never care or respect her, but need to be "friend" with her so i can find a seekers book and she will not restore Seekers

Josephine-annoying antivan "princess", not care and not respect, rather have Varrick or anyone else on her position, but not like her.

 

Michel de Shevin-kill him

[Bowie Hawkins]

That's your opinion and I am not here to be an evangelist.

 

And it's based on the fact of what's in the game. If you never try to take the time to get to know Sera, it's easy to come to the conclusion that she has no story - but the reason you're coming to that conclusion is your own ignorance of the information, not because she has no story. 

[Wintersonne123]

DA:O/A: Oghren, just because he was such a disappointment. When I met Oghren, I thought he'd be a clever subversion of the usual Merry Drinking Dwarf stereotype. After all, he had a real reason to turn to drink, he actually seemed to be hiding a deeper depression, he had suffered consequences in polite Orzammar society for his behavior, and so on. Turns out, after you're done in Orzammar, he's basically just that stereotype again. Come Awakenings, and whatever little subtlety he had is completely lost and he's a cartoon character.

 

An then there was that elf lady from Awakenings. I seriously have not bothered enough with her to remember her name. Velanna? I don't think I've ever met anyone who's tried to defend her, either.

 

DA2: I dislike Sebastian, but I dislike him for what he is, not for how he's written (as in, I don't think he's badly written), so that's fine with me. Tallis is really the only character I couldn't stand. I'd never heard of Felicia Day until I googled the DLC after the fact to try and understand what the reason for this weird character was, so maybe it helps if you're a fan of her? I just found the whole plot constructed around her very flimsy, the fact that you couldn't really argue with her a cop-out, and her cutscene competence a little overmuch. Thanks to Talli, MotA did feel like playing someone's self-insert fanfiction - and it wasn't even particularly good self-insert fanfiction.

 

DA:I: I actually don't dislike any of them. I've never really warmed to Leliana, not here or in DA:O, but since I can't really put my finger on why, I can't defend that position, I just... don't click with her. Sera is grating sometimes, but I feel like she's written to be that way and since Varric is glued to all my Inquisitors' sides, I really rarely see enough of her to get an "overdose" of her banter.

 

I think Dorian comes the closest. He's at his best for me whenever his political stuff from Tevinter carries over - while I vehemently disagree about hist stance on slaves, for example, I find it interesting that he holds these views -, but his personal quest with his daddy must've been cut wholecloth from some early-2000s-YA novel, with a little blood magic thrown in for flavour. Basically the most clichéd plot you could settle a gay character with, and no one in the writing department tried to do anything remotely special with it. Worse, since I basically knew this confrontation scene with his dad from a dozen shows and books made for teenagers, when my Inquisitor romanced him and that scene started, it felt like Quizzie was dating a 15 year old to me, haha. I suppose Dorian is very young (like 19-22 at the highest? That's what he came across like to me), so it's fair enough, and I know some people found his story inspiring, which I honestly think is great, but it just bored me. And don't get me started on AdoriBull. I don't care whether it's abusive or whatever, I don't think it is, I just care how unbelievably cringeworthy their dialogue is, and I find the whole qunari-tevinter-forbidden-love angle, again, clichéd and boring. It just highlights for me all the ways in which Dorian is already a very standard character who didn't have much to offer me, even after I forced my Inquisitor through the romance with him in hopes that it would make me like him better; and it also underlines IB's most annoying traits. It's the first time a companion romance has made me actively like them both less.

 

In Trespasser, without wanting to spoil, I actually really enjoyed Dorian and wanted to see more of him. I also do like his banter, so I couldn't even say I don't like him. However, if neither he or IB is romanced, I keep them apart like gasoline and a match in a fireworks factory. Not once in the same party. Not. Even. Once.

 

Edit: Oh, lest we forget: Bianca. Special mention because she's not a companion and barely around long enough, but what a letdown that was. One and a half games of build up for this stupid crossbow, and then it turns out it's all about some trite lovestory with a completely unlikeable character that they desperately tried to make cool in some way (no really, she's totally ten times as talented as Branka!). Needless to say, it felt very good to part Varric from his bow on my second playthrough and make him into a badass knife-and-dagger dwarfy, Bianca forgotten in his inventory.

[ElnVld]

Isabela