37 réponses à ce sujet

[Kulyok]

So, when a new companion asks to join you in a Dragon Age game, you usually have options:

 

- say "Okay, join", and welcome him,

- say "No, thanks", and send him on his way,

 

Like Iron Bull. He's totally chill. "You guys don't like our throatcutters? Sure, best of luck, we'll just get going, then."

Or Oghren. He might get a little sad, but hey, such is life.

 

Or sometimes you can't ask a party member to leave, because he's an integral part of the game, like Varric or Alistair. And that's okay, too, because sometimes the story demands it.

 

The point is, neither of these characters does something sick and evil to you if you refuse. They don't whip out the murder knife, they don't try to assault you, and they most certainly don't wipe your memory.

 

But in Dragon Age: Inquisition, with that Cole character, you no longer have such an option. You either have to welcome him, or he mind-rapes you, takes your memories away and basically kills a part of your self, interrupting the stream of your consciousness. Imagine if someone took the events of the last hour from you - and it wasn't a boring hour in a classroom, either. Not good.

 

I understand that a character is a killer and a memory-wiper and he has to act in character. But if the player for some strange reason doesn't want that character in the party(weird, isn't it?) provide alternatives! TAKE ME IN OR I'LL MINDRAPE YOU NOW does not provide hedons for the player, it's a traumatic experience ripe with emotional blackmail. Is it pleasant to play the game as one of Cole's victims? Not really.

 

So I'm really, really, really begging for an alternative in the next games. An assault on the protagonist's consciousness, be it sexual or telepathic, is really a sick and an unpleasant thing. Please don't do that.

[Malthier]

Your topic title is terrible. 

[BronzTrooper]

I'm gonna be honest here: I was expecting a Liara hate thread.

 

On topic: Cole doesn't 'mindrape' anyone.  He just makes you forget about him specifically.  If you listen to his dialogue on the reasoning behind why he makes people forget him, he says that it's for both sides.  He believes that it's better for people to forget him because he feels that if they remember, it could be harmful to one or both of them.

 

If anything, the Envy demon in the Templar quest is more guilty of 'mindrape' than Cole.  Ditto for the Nightmare demon at Adamant.

 

I don't see this thread lasting very long, though.

[HuldraDancer]

Even though this is the Dragon Age section for some reason the Asari popped into my head seeing this title then I remembered this is DA and thought the thread was about Solas. I seem to have been very wrong, I have nothing else to add to the thread sorry.

[DomeWing333]

Only voluntary mindrape, then?

 

Cole wipes the Inquisitor's memories either because they're trying to kill/capture him or prevent him from leaving. It's the only self-defense recourse he knows that wouldn't involve inflicting any actual suffering on others.

 

You really don't like having parts of your memory erased. Fine. Other people really don't like being attacked by giant spiders. Oh well. You're an RPG protagonist. Unpleasant things are going to happen to you. You just have to deal with it. Or stop playing if it's too much for you to handle.

[drummerchick]

Okay, I'll take the bait.  What constitutes a 'sexual assault on the protagonist's consciousness'?  Does he like, stick his member in the pc's ear hole? 

[nightscrawl]

With Cole specifically, I think it's an interesting option.

 

If the player takes the mage path and meets Cole later on, then the Inquisitor is NEVER subject to the types of readings that Cole uses on others, where he spontaneously "dips into your mind to take a drink" as Dorian puts it. You do have the option of asking Cole how you "feel" to him, but it's really not the same thing. The templar mission and the alternative path you describe are really the only times the Inquisitor gets to experience Cole on a personal level. I understand the reason the devs did it this way -- to do anything else would have seriously compromised roleplay -- but it is a shame nonetheless.

 

And yeah... calling it "mindrape" isn't really going to get you too far. A less provocative title would have been better IMO, such as, " 'Who?' Getting your memory erased by Cole," or something.

[Beezlee5]

I have no clue what the OP is talking about.

[TevinterSupremacist]

Your topic title is terrible. 

Awfully catchy though, I entered the thread thinking "oh damn, what did I miss, where was that?"

[9TailsFox]

[Monster20862]

I had a VERY different idea of what this topic was about... I'll just be going.

[Digger1967]

What really upsets me the most about Cole is the over the top way in which the game designers seem to force him on you.  If I don't recruit Vivienne, Sera, Iron Bull, Blackwell - well that's just fine.  If I don't recruit Cole, I have to suffer through nag screens for the rest of the play through about how awful it was that I told him to take a hike.

 

Sorry, but I'm here to save Thedas - I've got a whacked out being of god like power trying to turn me into street pizza, a war between templars and mages to deal with, and a host of other problems that threaten to tear my world apart.  I don't have the time or the inclination to help some barely coherent angst ridden demon-spirit thingy work out his personal emotional issues.  Let him pay for therapy like everybody else.  I've got to much other stuff on my plate right now, thank you.

[Kulyok]

Awfully catchy though, I entered the thread thinking "oh damn, what did I miss, where was that?"

 

Yeah, you like Cole - blink and you miss it, you tell Cole to take a hike - and here you stand, wtf-ing.

 

 

Anyway, on-topic - I think it stems from the developers loving their character, their baby, too much, and refusing to let them be bullied/killed/etc. Really, I think the issue with Cole could be easily circumvented:

1) PC: Hi, Cole, join me! 

Cole: Yay!

 

2) PC: Sorry, Cole, no room for you, but let's stay friends.

Cole: Okay, I'll write!

 

3) PC: Cole, you're a Bad, Bad Spirit, go away!

Cole: (sniffs) (leaves) (gives you a puppy look as he leaves; nobody cares).

 

4) PC: COLE, I'M GOING TO KILL YOU!

Cole: Nope, plot armor (quickly proceeds to wipe everyone's memories with plot superpowers and leaves)

 

We could even skip the 3). Two more voiced lines, one more rendered character, then PC says "Okay, where were we?", and everything proceeds as normal.

[ThreeF]

 

I'm sorry what is the problem again?

[Digger1967]

Yeah, you like Cole - blink and you miss it, you tell Cole to take a hike - and here you stand, wtf-ing.

 

 

Anyway, on-topic - I think it stems from the developers loving their character, their baby, too much, and refusing to let them be bullied/killed/etc. Really, I think the issue with Cole could be easily circumvented:

1) PC: Hi, Cole, join me! 

Cole: Yay!

 

2) PC: Sorry, Cole, no room for you, but let's stay friends.

Cole: Okay, I'll write!

 

3) PC: Cole, you're a Bad, Bad Spirit, go away!

Cole: (sniffs) (leaves) (gives you a puppy look as he leaves; nobody cares).

 

4) PC: COLE, I'M GOING TO KILL YOU!

Cole: Nope, plot armor (quickly proceeds to wipe everyone's memories with plot superpowers and leaves)

 

We could even skip the 3). Two more voiced lines, one more rendered character, then PC says "Okay, where were we?", and everything proceeds as normal.

 

My solution?  As soon as I get to skyhold I just avoid the area at the bottom of the stairs where Cole "hides" and I leave him lost for the entire game.  By never triggering the cut scene I don't have to officially kick his scrawny butt to the curb and therefore I don't have to endure nag screen after nag screen every time I'm waiting for something to load.

 

Hell will freeze over long before I ever consider asking Cole to join the inquisition.  It's a badly written cliche of a character to begin with, but to have him forced on me like that?  Oh no.  He doesn't get used in any playthrough of mine.  

[Kulyok]

My solution?  As soon as I get to skyhold I just avoid the area at the bottom of the stairs where Cole "hides" and I leave him lost for the entire game.  By never triggering the cut scene I don't have to officially kick his scrawny butt to the curb and therefore I don't have to endure nag screen after nag screen every time I'm waiting for something to load.

 

That works great for the mage side, but if you want to get Calpernia's story, Cole is literally forced on you - he's right there in your War Room, sitting on the table. Everyone rightfully gets suspicious and grabs their swords, but - well, plot armor.

[ThreeF]

That works great for the mage side, but if you want to get Calpernia's story, Cole is literally forced on you - he's right there in your War Room, sitting on the table. Everyone rightfully gets suspicious and grabs their swords, but - well, plot armor.

so you are upset because you can't have the upper hand on how he leaves? why?

 

I seriously don't get what is the problem here. He is a fictional character that behaves in character and your problem is that you can't make him sniffle? It sort of comes off as "Abuse! Help! I can't abuse a character!"

[Digger1967]

That works great for the mage side, but if you want to get Calpernia's story, Cole is literally forced on you - he's right there in your War Room, sitting on the table. Everyone rightfully gets suspicious and grabs their swords, but - well, plot armor.

 

I almost  always go with the mages, it makes more sense to me at least from a roleplay perspective, I learn that Alexius is using dangerous time altering magic that is threatening to tear all of Thedas apart, I just have a hard time justifying taking time away from that to go find out why the Templars have their panties in a bunch.  I also like the mage quest much, much better than the Templar one for a variety of reasons.  A lot fewer annoying cut scenes, no Cole to deal with, better loot, etc.

 

I did a couple of Templar playthroughs, and well I think from here on out I'll stick with the mages.  But yes, the way they force Cole on you is just awful.  I really hope at some point they patch that out.

[Zobert]

I'd like to forget that I watched the last five minutes of the superbowl.

[Digger1967]

so you are upset because you can't have the upper hand on how he leaves? why?

 

I seriously don't get what is the problem here. He is a fictional character that behaves in character and your problem is that you can't make him sniffle? It sort of comes off as "Abuse! Help! I can't abuse a character!"

 

Well I can't speak for the OP here of course but I'm disgusted that if I do ask him to leave I have to put up with the game designers BS load screens telling me what a brutish thug I am for giving their much beloved angsty twit his walking papers.  They don't nag me to death for the rest of the game if I tell Blackwalll to take a hike or decide that Iron Bull isn't worth the risk.  I shouldn't be harassed for that decision, especially since if you play the mages quest as I normally do it makes almost no sense whatsoever to offer the creepy, whiny it could very well be a demon thing a spot in the Inquisition anyway. 

 

If he were treated like any other NPC, well then I wouldn't take issue with it.  The fact that he's being forced on me, that I take issue with.  It detracts greatly from one of the more enjoyable aspects of the game for me, the roleplay aspect.  YMMV of course.

[Dai Grepher]

I don't think it's mind-rape. Cole only does it to protect himself.

 

The problem I have with Cole is that he wants Cass, or Cullen, or the Inquiz to kill him if he becomes evil, but how exactly would they do that if an evil Cole made them forget about him or made them not be able to see him?

Also, couldn't Cole infiltrate the Vints and Reds easily? Varric even tries to float the idea of Cole hiding a wagon full of smuggled goods.

[Shechinah]

(to Dai Grepher) I think it would depend upon what kind of demons he becomes like if he becomes a rage demon, he might lose that power or it would change like to read what upsets a person and use it against them. It might be that Cole knows that there might be ways they could protect themselves against his influence and are able to use anti-magical powers to harm him.

 

This also may be why he is never used to infiltrate the Venatori or the Red Templars since one side are mages with knowledge possible pertaining to creatures like him while the Red Templars are former templars who has trained to fight demons and so could possibly harm. Both sides may also have means of detecting him so his stealth capabilities might not be so efficent especially if they have bound demons who can sense him. 

[Dai Grepher]

Perhaps. Yet he went to the Templars at Theirinfall.

 

Anyway, on topic. I am not so upset with how Cole joins the team or how he can be refused. I was actually more upset with Origins and Awakening how my character will fall in the tower of Ishal and be saved by Flemeth, or how he will step on an obvious trap in the Silverite Mines and basically be at the mercy of the Architect.

 

Also, why is no one pointing out the obvious mind-rape Flemeth uses on whoever drank from the Well of Sorrows?

[Saphiron123]

Jesus the dragon age fanbase has become sensitive.

Next game we won't be able to have swords because violence is bad. The Qunari will love and include everyone because religious and cultural intolerance is bad, and the darkspawn will express themselves through the gift of song.

"Dragon age - rated PC, so we don't offend anyone".

We're all adults, we should be able to handle the fact the world isn't all sunshine and rainbows, and making people forget as a survival mechanism is a far cry from "mind rape".

OP, did you know there are parasites in real life that hijack an ant's nervous system, destroy it's ability to think, and make it climb high so birds will eat it and spread the parasite over wide distances? The world is sometimes not totally magically happy, such is life, and you'll have to come to terms with it both in reality and fantasy.

If you want a game where nothing bad ever happens to your protagonist, may I suggest something aimed at children 6 and under?

[Cz-99]

I agree. Same thing with Coryphemus. I wanted to stab him in le face, but no - Plot Armor protects him and I have to send him into the Fade. Also, the first time you meet him, my character had strapped C4's to himself just in case, but instead of letting me detonate them my character is forced to escape. I mean, if Coryphobus wasn't human and had some kind of special powers (magic or otherwise) then I could understand him gaining the upper hand, but that's not the case. Same thing with Cole.