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The Warden Expansion


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#26
brownie56

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It is. Either Alistair and Loghain dies at the Landsmeet, the HoF then makes the sacrifice, then the survivor of the Landsmeet later dies in the Fade. All three dead in one world state. With the extra possibility that all the Awakening Wardens are either dead or missing in action too, on a particularly "bad ending" playthrough.

 

Well crap...

 

 

The biggest strike against the notion that this here was supposed to be foreshadowing to DLC is that the Orlesian Warden-Commander did not get this "opening" at all in Inquisition. The letter, the search for a cure, none of that stuff ever shows up. In a US world state, this subplot doesn't exist at all. That's a pretty poor way to set this up as a premise for DLC - if they ever intended this "cure for the taint" line to be anything more than a throwaway excuse to send the HoF far far away into obuscurity to never return or be heard from again, it's been set up really badly across different world states. There's just no lead up to it for half of the player base out there, if it comes up on DLC now, it will have literally come out of nowhere.

 

Going even more basic on the premise: let's see the DA Keep give us US players at least a tile where we can select the race, gender and class of our Orlesian Wardens first. As they are now, the Orlesian Warden is barely a character at all, despite their admirable deeds of rebuilding the Wardens in Ferelden from zero and potentially defeating one of the ancient magisters before the Inquisitor was a thing. Once we have evidence that the OW still exists in the world, we can talk about them being a replacement for the HoF on possible future games/DLCs. Chances are not looking good, though - that one nameless prisoner who dies five minutes into the game has like six tiles at the Keep to determine his irrelevant fate; the Warden-Commander who's been leading the Wardens in Ferelden for the past nine years doesn't even get a text box namedrop.

 

 

Which I find incredibly frustrating, I really can't stand the "it's about the world not the people" line they keep pulling. The parts of their game they are best known for are their characters, saying that's not what they care about undermines what makes their games compelling. People keep making the "Warden's a blank slate why bother argument" but isn't that the best way to immerse yourself in the world? To project yourself into it? I think people are getting so defensive about bringing the Warden back because that is their piece of the world, and they don't want to let it go (I certainly don't). Hawke and the Inquisitor are so predetermined and outside of player control that this entire series for me has become a wait and see game of "well what happened to MY character?" If they want to stop complaints like this I see only a few ways out (IMHO):

 

1. Time jump, location jump: Blank slate, new people. If it's really about the history of the world, then just run with it. People in actual history have only a brief window of relevance, so the roster must constantly be changing (Worst option, but seems to be how they want to do it).

 

2. DLC Resolution: I know the calling part didn't apply to everyone's Warden, but the Weisshaupt stuff does. Since the Anderfels sounds like a horrible Skyrim (the place sucked...snowy mountains get old quick) setting, use i up in a one shot DLC rather than a full game. (Second best option)

 

3.  Multiple PC's:  What if your two PC's were at odds with one another? The Wardens have a clear beef with the Inquisition now (either they exiled Wardens, or commandeered them and got them killed), so why not pit the HoF/Warden Commander against the Inquisitor? It would make for some painstaking choices like where would Leliana go? And set up a consequence for the Hawke Fade Choice, if Hawke lives he's with the Inquisiton, the Warden with the Wardens. There's a reason the Keep asks whether you were friends with a specific companion or not, make it mean something. 

 

From what has gone on in DA:I, I don't think Bioware has fully committed to in practice what they have said. Remember when they said the Morrigan/Flemeth conflict would be resolved? It really isn't. If anything it's become more complex. We don't want to bring the Warden back? Why did you give everyone a perfect avenue to do so? If they want to keep having new PC's they have to complete the stories of the old ones, because people are going to keep asking for closure and not be able to move on and fully appreciate the new characters if they don't feel like their done with the previous yet. The games probably feel a lot more fleshed out for those who did the US and left Hawke in the Fade, but I'm sure they'll be back around to ask what happened to their Inquisitor come DA4. 



#27
Addai

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Let the Warden retire in peace.



#28
brownie56

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Let the Warden retire in peace.

I want to, but Warden/DA:O companion mentions are like Pringles to me, once I pop I can't stop. 



#29
AWTEW

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 I hope we get the option to put the Warden through a meat-grinder.



#30
El Dude 9

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The Warden could be dead. It would be a spit in the face to those who made that happen

If thats the case then you could play as The Warden-Commander from Awakening.



#31
Rekkampum

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I'd definitely like to take control of the Warden for a side-story again and see this Calling cure quest first-hand, maybe get a decent bit of closure on them, but sadly the chances are looking pretty slim at this point. :(

 

Weekes is now head writer and he's stated that he isn't interested in bringing the Warden back, especially in terms of how people received Hawke in Inquisition. Many probably would not like how he'd take the character.


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#32
I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE

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Many probably would not like how he'd take the character.

 

I'm already not very fond of where they took the character though. Mine is currently off in the middle of nowhere doing who knows what for who knows how long while her lover (Leliana) is indefinitely separated from her because it seems the character is now going to be a dead end forever. Where is this 'awesome,' happy retirement ending Weekes spoke of? The one that is apparently so amazing and satisfying? Cause that sure as heck ain't it. :/



#33
Hanako Ikezawa

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As much as I would like to see my Wardens again, I'd rather leave them alone then have their personalities try to be captured. The Hawke in DAI was nothing like my Hawke, and the Warden would be harder to do. 



#34
Andres Hendrix

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I'm already not very fond of where they took the character though. Mine is currently off in the middle of nowhere doing who knows what for who knows how long while her lover (Leliana) is indefinitely separated from her because it seems the character is now going to be a dead end forever. Where is this 'awesome,' happy retirement ending Weekes speaks of? That sure as heck ain't it. 

Since when has a Grey Warden ever had a happy ending in the deep roads? lol Do the darkspwan just go, "oh your THAAAT Warden, well we will just fall on your sword!" XD We know what the Warden is doing, he or she is out looking for a cure for the blight. Otherwise the Warden/HOF will never have a happy ending.



#35
I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE

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We know what the Warden is doing, he or she is out looking for a cure for the blight. Otherwise the Warden/HOF will never have a happy ending.

 

Then I think they should at least give us that, since Weekes seemed really convinced about the Warden's 'ride off into the sunset' ending that, at the moment, doesn't actually exist...



#36
Andres Hendrix

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Then I think they should at least give us that, since Weekes seemed really convinced about the Warden's 'ride off into the sunset' ending that, at the moment, doesn't actually exist...

What quote is this from Weekes? He does seem to be one of those overly chipper people who get a bit too far ahead of themselves. In Inquisition there is a war table mission to find the Warden, this results in a letter wherein the warden states that s/he is out looking for a cure for the calling/blight, and Morrigan or Leliana (depending on who was romanced) say that the Warden is out looking for the cure as well. As far as I know, the cure story has not come to any resolution either on screen or off screen.



#37
thats1evildude

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Let it go. My Warden didn't do anything in Inquisition that I personally objected to, but I don't want to see him again.

My Warden was a male elf. He was a tank rogue who wore heavy armour and dual-wielded a sword and a dagger. If I see him again, I will have to settle for an anorexic dual-dagger rogue who may speak with a voice I did not choose.

I know he's off somewhere having adventures, and that he'll see Leliana again. That's enough. Leave the voiceless, potentially dead Warden in the past.

#38
I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE

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What quote is this from Weekes? He does seem to be one of those overly chipper people who get a bit too far ahead of themselves.


It's from a panel Weekes was at.

SOMEONE ASKS IF WE'LL BE ABLE TO PLAY THE GREY WARDEN FROM DAO AGAIN: "The honest answer is, I wouldn’t want to go back to the Hero of Ferelden. I think the hero had a freaking awesome story — you had chance to die heroically, or you had chance to survive and ride off into the sunset with their lover.


Yeah no.

In Inquisition there is a war table mission to find the Warden, this results in a letter wherein the warden states that s/he is out looking for a cure for the calling/blight, and Morrigan or Leliana (depending on who was romanced) say that the Warden is out looking for the cure as well. As far as I know, the cure story has not come to any resolution either on screen or off screen.


Er, yes. I've played the game. Any resolution I try to make myself will no doubt just be rendered invalid by something next game anyway.

#39
Rekkampum

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Then I think they should at least give us that, since Weekes seemed really convinced about the Warden's 'ride off into the sunset' ending that, at the moment, doesn't actually exist...

 

If that were even remotely the case, their "canon" wouldn't be one in which the Warden sacrifices themselves in the battle against the Archdaemon. Apparently, more people sacrificed themselves than completed the DR. This is Dark Fantasy, not classical fantasy.

 

There also was never a "ride off into the sunset" ending. It was made clear that the Warden would die a premature death thanks to the taint, although the time frame has been retconned to vary between individuals (Gaider once stated that he regretted making it so specific). This syrupy ending you're describing definitely never existed, and it certainly shouldn't come without any true struggle or conflict.

 

I think one should be happy that the Warden is at least doing something that makes sense from a plot perspective instead of inexplicably chillin' off on a beach in some godforsaken part of Thedas. It definitely makes for a great teaser given how rich the premise is.


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#40
I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE

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There also was never a "ride off into the sunset" ending.


...except I wouldn't be saying this if that wasn't exactly what Weekes said it was.

#41
LOLandStuff

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I don't want to see my Warden, their story has ended. But I wouldn't mind seeing notes from a journal left here and there in the Deep Roads in their search for a cure.


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#42
Rekkampum

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...except I wouldn't be saying this if that wasn't exactly what Weekes said it was.

 

Well, until you provide a source, I've gotta call your bluff on this.



#43
I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE

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Well, until you provide a source, I've gotta call your bluff on this.


...um, my post right above yours...

#44
Red of Rivia

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I think the Warden has passed his time, even I thought his story is not over. It is likely that we will see Morrigan againe and then we have some information about it or anything, but nothing more than that. If he healed the wardens or something. I Let it go. Even being my favorite protagonist of the series, I think he's dead, you doing the ritual or not.



#45
Rekkampum

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...um, my post right above yours...

 

Okay, I checked it out. I can't see how your Warden surviving and being able to remain with hir(gender-neutral) lover isn't a happy ending. You already know your Warden's life currently has a death sentence on it; wouldn't it make sense for your Warden to want to prevent that from happening, especially given what they learned in Vigil's Keep?

 

I also think we're forgetting that Bioware's writers ultimately are the ones in control of this story, not us. They are merely giving us tools to shape our own stories within the confines of what they allow us.



#46
I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE

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Okay, I checked it out. I can't see how your Warden surviving and being able to remain with hir(gender-neutral) lover isn't a happy ending. You already know your Warden's life currently has a death sentence on it; wouldn't it make sense for your Warden to want to prevent that from happening, especially given what they learned in Vigil's Keep?

 

Yeah, I'll believe that if that quest ever gets an actual resolution to it. That's all I want. 



#47
brownie56

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Okay, I checked it out. I can't see how your Warden surviving and being able to remain with hir(gender-neutral) lover isn't a happy ending. You already know your Warden's life currently has a death sentence on it; wouldn't it make sense for your Warden to want to prevent that from happening, especially given what they learned in Vigil's Keep?

 

I also think we're forgetting that Bioware's writers ultimately are the ones in control of this story, not us. They are merely giving us tools to shape our own stories within the confines of what they allow us.

I think what spawned all of this is how they keep dragging the LI's back. I had Morrigan, and now the whole Flemeth conflict is taking a new (very central to the future plot) shade and having my Warden not be present for any of it seems odd from a writing perspective. How I sort of see it is that if you're bringing Morrigan back, in essence your bringing along any Warden (and his kid) with her. Same for Leliana. Especially since the whole "I'm going to join them" thing can be flatly contradicted if she becomes Divine. 

 

By no means do I need them to bring the Warden back as a PC or NPC even, I just want to know that they play a big role in the ultimate fate of their LI. Even a "Morrigan, Kieran, and the Warden are on the run from Flemeth looking for a cure" would sum it up or "The Warden became the Right/Left hand of Leliana as Divine" would sum it up. I think the resolution people are looking for is that their Warden isn't taking on any more big adventures, so they aren't missing out on anything. "The Warden is in a far off land that is fundamentally different from Thedas, searching for a cure to not only save their own life but that of any Grey Warden" sounds exactly like my criteria for what a big adventure would be. If theirs a shot at letting his BFF Alistair live a full life, I feel like my Warden would go after that with all he's got. 

 

I think they have to be careful with this, because to the many players whose Wardens lived they are still a part of Dragon Age as they see it.They don't necessarily have to wrap it up in a whole expansion or even a chance meeting as an NPC. But they do need to wrap it up.



#48
Dragonzzilla

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I would only back if this would allow for Lightspawn.



#49
Greypaul

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DAO gave you the choice to either sacrifice you warden or to save him/her through the DR , I personally always do the DR thats how I like MY STORY to go as far as I'm concerned my wardens still got stuff to do and I'd like to see them again . You finished with YOUR  WARDEN  then by all means do the US, job done, sorted no more warden in your story , I like happily ever afters what can I say .



#50
Rekkampum

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I think what spawned all of this is how they keep dragging the LI's back. I had Morrigan, and now the whole Flemeth conflict is taking a new (very central to the future plot) shade and having my Warden not be present for any of it seems odd from a writing perspective. How I sort of see it is that if you're bringing Morrigan back, in essence your bringing along any Warden (and his kid) with her. Same for Leliana. Especially since the whole "I'm going to join them" thing can be flatly contradicted if she becomes Divine. 

 

By no means do I need them to bring the Warden back as a PC or NPC even, I just want to know that they play a big role in the ultimate fate of their LI. Even a "Morrigan, Kieran, and the Warden are on the run from Flemeth looking for a cure" would sum it up or "The Warden became the Right/Left hand of Leliana as Divine" would sum it up. I think the resolution people are looking for is that their Warden isn't taking on any more big adventures, so they aren't missing out on anything. "The Warden is in a far off land that is fundamentally different from Thedas, searching for a cure to not only save their own life but that of any Grey Warden" sounds exactly like my criteria for what a big adventure would be. If theirs a shot at letting his BFF Alistair live a full life, I feel like my Warden would go after that with all he's got. 

 

I think they have to be careful with this, because to the many players whose Wardens lived they are still a part of Dragon Age as they see it.They don't necessarily have to wrap it up in a whole expansion or even a chance meeting as an NPC. But they do need to wrap it up.

 

 

With the exception of playthroughs for variety, most of my canon playthroughs of my male warden are with her and the DR having been completed- as well as living in the Crossroads for a while because my Warden ain't a deadbeat - so I definitely am in favor of seeing them take this further if they choose to(to those curious, Zevran is my next fav LI). They definitely have the narrative flexibility - for those who sacrificed their Warden, it could simply be the Warden Commander instead - to pull something off. I'd probably see it as a lengthy one-off DLC at the very least, since Expansions aren't cost effective. Either way, I think if they do take this Calling subplot any further, we're gonna see more references.