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[N172]

What are the elemental resistances and weaknesses (fire, ice and lightning in particular) of the demon Units, i have found Information on red templars and venatori already, but not for the demons.

I rarely end up in the fade recently and when i do it is not for long, so i cannot see them myself.

[scene_cachet]

Lightning is the best overall rune to apply as most enemies don't have resistances to lightning.

[X Equestris]

Spirit damage works on everything that I know of.

Despair demons are vulnerable to fire, and resistant to ice.

Rage is vulnerable to ice and resistant to fire.

Pride is resistant to electricity.

Fear is vulnerable to electricity.

Wraiths are vulnerable to spirit, I think, and if they take on an elemental power, they share the same weakness as the corresponding demon.

Not sure about shades.

[hanoobken]

Weaknesses based on my observations

Fear demon: lightning, very weak against spirit

Despair demon: very weak against fire, (spirit maybe)

Terror demon: vulnerable to ice and weak against spirit

Pride demon: resistant to lightning

 

Note:  this is from the POV of a mage.  I judge their weaknesses based on the element of the staff I am using and the spells.  Pretty sure someone has a more accurate guide

[hanoobken]

The general rule of thumb is that the four elements are arranged in opposing pairs: Fire opposes Ice; Lightning opposes Spirit.

 

As such, Pride Demons are resistant to Lightning; but weak to Spirit. Rage are resistant to Fire but weak to Ice; Despair are strong to Ice but weak to Fire. I have not officially tested this final one, but I heard that Fear Demons round out the group, being resistant to Spirit but weak to Lightning.

However, that is not always the case: Wraiths are weak to Spirit but immune to Poison. Shades appear to have no resistances or weaknesses. I have not in depth tested this, but Terrors may be resistant to Spirit but weak to Poison.

Terrors usually get destroyed when I fade cloak so I think they are weak against spirit.  Fear demons are weak against lightning and spirit since Walking bomb hurts them a lot

[hanoobken]

Keep in mind I did not say Immune. There is a difference between Immune and Resistant.

 

For example:
Rage Demon is resistant to Fire. Fire damage does 50% less damage to Rage Demons.
Wraiths are immune to Poison. Poison attacks do no damage to Wraiths.

Poison is a bit of a misnomer, though, and I really should have just left it out, as Poison is a status effect damage, like Burning. Enemies will be immune to certain status effects, but not immune to elemental damage.

 

Fade Cloak does a huge amount of damage, so using it to test resistant will be misleading. Walking Bomb similarly does a lot of damage both DOT and in the explosions, so again, that is also a poor way to judge resistance.

The way to test resistance is with runes. Attack each demon type with a Superb of each type. It's easy to judge since Rune damage shows up separately and is a nice even number to calculate (obviously not counting critical hits or other dynamic damage bonuses). Fear Demons and Terrors appear to take slightly less damage on average from Spirit compared to Shades, whereas Fear Demons take more damage from Lightning. Again, I have not tested either in-depth, but I want to be clear on your method being a bit flawed lol.

Like you said, take your staff and check the spirit damage taken.  Even if my method is flawed, you can't argue with the damage you can see your enemies are taking.  Fade cloak does different damage to different types of enemies.  All you have to do is look and see how much damage they are taking, also taking into account whether your attack crit or not.  Like I said, these are observations.

[hanoobken]

Wraiths seem to take the same amount of spirit damage regardless whether you crit or not. (staff auto attack)

Shades also take similar spirit damage to wraiths.

Terrors take nearly twice the spirit damage from a non-crit spirit attack compared to shades and wraiths.

Fear demon takes nearly thrice the spirit damage when crit with a staff auto attack compared to wraiths and shades.

 

Staff used:  Staff of the Dynamo with superb spirit rune

 

[hanoobken]

Walking Bomb similarly does a lot of damage both DOT and in the explosions, so again, that is also a poor way to judge resistance.

Walking bomb damage ticks are also different depending on enemy type.  You would know this if you actually paid attention to it.  It's a good indicator which type of mob is resistant to it.  A red templar horror, for example takes massive spirit damage.  From your assumption that lightning opposes spirit, take the Pride demon, a lightning demon.  And yet it takes a very similar amount of spirit damage as a wraith or a shade.  So we can throw that assumption out the window.

[hanoobken]

So... what was the non-critical hit damage of each enemy? Critical hits are irrelevant in determining elemental resistance.

Are you blind?  You can see the critical hits with the BIG FLASHING NUMBERS.  Look at the damage I did to the terror and fear demon.  Both have non-crits and crit numbers in them.

[hanoobken]

No, I'm not blind, but I think you may want to consider more careful observation. So since you missed it, let me highlight the part of my reply you should have noticed...

No I didn't miss that.  While you are so busy looking on from the fade, I can tell you pretty much the same thing from looking at my numbers.  Numbers don't lie.

[Drasca]

Actually, they do. The term is Mathematical Fallacy. However, at this point, it's getting off topic.

 

Point is, if you want to test the numbers, do it scientifically. If you want a direct answer, then enter the fade and look at the enemy.

 

No more needs to be said on the subject.

 

Actually no, for one what Hanoobken is giving is the empirical tested answer, which is better than the hypothetical assumption associating the observation of elemental & spirit vulnerability. It is entirely possible, though unlikely, that the devs goofed and forgot to assign extra damage even though a particular enemy type is flagged for vulnerability, or gave even more damage than expected. He has actually tested for real data, as opposed to merely observing for assumptions.

 

Mathematical fallacy, as you stated, is a red herring, and also does not apply, because there's no wrong steps that hanoobken applied.

 

TL:DR Your statements are insufficient lacking data. Hanoobken provided data.

[hanoobken]

Actually, they do. The term is Mathematical Fallacy. However, at this point, it's getting off topic.

 

Point is, if you want to test the numbers, do it scientifically. If you want a direct answer, then enter the fade and look at the enemy.

 

No more needs to be said on the subject.

And yet here we are spouting things like lightning opposes spirit, terror and fear demons taking less spirit damage than wraiths and shades when in fact they take probably the highest spirit damage of all of them.  As far as scientific methods go, keen observation plays a huge role, so maybe we should take a look at ourselves before telling someone else to be all "scientific" about it?

 

End.

[hanoobken]

Actually no, for one what Hanoobken is giving is the empirical tested answer, which is better than the hypothetical assumption associating the observation of elemental & spirit vulnerability. It is entirely possible, though unlikely, that the devs goofed and forgot to assign extra damage even though a particular enemy type is flagged for vulnerability, or gave even more damage than expected. He has actually tested for real data, as opposed to merely observing for assumptions.

 

Mathematical fallacy, as you stated, is a red herring, and also does not apply, because there's no wrong steps that hanoobken applied.

 

TL:DR Your statements are insufficient lacking data. Hanoobken provided data.

Thank you Drasca

[yarpenthemad21]

It's the same as in SP.

In SP on nightmare they have "immune" - 1 damage dealt, here it's resistance, thats the only difference. 

And there is no enemy with spirit resistance. Spirit is like "better damage type", enemies can only have spirit weakness or nothing.

 

Also testing in real game should look way more professional.  Fear demon on 5th screen is shocked. It's +20% damage from elemental source. Test because of it broken.

 

All tests can be done in SP because this is the same game, the same skills, the same enemies. If something works in SP it works in MP (ability rings, skills, etc). If something does not work in SP, it does not work in MP too (like stone fist detonator dealing zero damage and ability rings like leap shot). SP has load and save feature and you can test there everything faster and better.

[Drasca]

It's the same as in SP.

In SP on nightmare they have "immune" - 1 damage dealt, here it's resistance, thats the only difference. 

 

Not quite the only difference, since MP skills have different values assigned and there are no damage immune enemies, merely 'resistent'. There are more, but that's a start.

[Drasca]

Aside, when I say scientific, I say that as a means by which to sort empirical evidence into a manner where a clear statement can be derived. Drasca, you are incorrect that empirical evidence is the end. Without a theory to test, a control set up, and variables accounted, empirical evidence becomes just underwhelming or overwhelming data with no meaning. I'll demonstrate shortly once I sign on and get some numbers to either prove or disprove my claim.

 

You inferred it was the end. I made no such claim, only that Hanoobken provided data, which is the next step in the scientific process. He did provide statements and process to be proven or disproven as well (by data, peer review, retesting reproducing the conditions, etc). Also, it isn't theory until it is throughly tested via the scientific process. It is a hypothetical, a claim or statement.

 

Anyhow, actual rigorous testing is most important part, which we're getting at.

[hanoobken]

You are correct.

 

I, however, made the initial claim. He countered with what I believed to be a rather inconclusive rebuttal, but that does not divert the fact that I made the claim and therefore must prove it. I am doing so now... Er... Well, being largely disproved now, as it were.

We all learn something new each day

 

I am familiar with spirit damage since Necromancer is my most played class, largely due to the fact that she, among all the mages, is the only one without barrier.

 

It doesn't really matter much on threatening difficulty, but on perilous I tend to pick which targets I hit with walking bomb whenever possible.  It probably wouldn't matter for people with very high willpower, but to me it does.