258 réponses à ce sujet

[Teknor]

Many people whine here not because ME2 is not a RPG but because whining about ME2 not being a RPG gives them some kind a bizarre feeling of superiority over shooter crowd.

Modifié par Teknor, 27 janvier 2010 - 08:08 .

[TopDomino]

sinosleep wrote...

1. who are you to determine what Bioware should or shouldn't have been trying to achieve.

A fan of Mass Effect 1 and BioWare in general and an actual paying client and EA stockholder.

2. what reviews have you been reading? Because every review I've read has gone on and on about the RPG elements, while mentioning the shooting only in regards to combat. 

What did you expect they would mention shooting in regard to, the sex scenes?

[sinosleep]

TopDomino wrote...

A fan of Mass Effect 1 and BioWare in general and an actual paying client and EA stockholder.

I'm a fan of the original and a paying client, I don't pretend to run the company though. Bioware can choose to do whatever they damned well please with their IP. Being a stock holder means diddly poo unless you're having meetings with the devs.

What did you expect they would mention shooting in regard to, the sex scenes?

No smart ass, the point is none of the reviews make it sound like the game revolves around shooting your guns off, the game revolves around the rpg aspects of it. Really glad you managed to completely ignore the comparison to an actual shooter in Uncharted 2 too.

Modifié par sinosleep, 27 janvier 2010 - 08:35 .

[Mabari Owns High Dragon]

ZilaSkye wrote...

Unbelievable ... BW ... you actually listened the whining FPS crowd ... and totally gutted the RPG from ME2... lay off the drugs for ME3 pls ... kkthx

Seriously ... love the story etc ... and the combat was "perfect" in ME1 in terms of havin a tad of FPS without making us RPG folks "seasick" with FPS mechanics ... totally ticks me off that the FPS crowd is ruining the RPG genre like this.  Do you not yet realize that the majority of players the "love" a game ... don't post!  just the whiners that have fracked up dozens of dev team design doc's over the years..as they know "Nada"! about what is fun and what isn'!!

GRRRRRR!
Enjoy!

Sad to say I agree.. It seems like they took ME1's formula, cut out half of the RPG, and added more focus on combat. I was really sad to see this happen : (

[Scoop]

to be honest.. the middle ground is ... to remove the "mouse"-linked screen movement ... which is what causes the "seasick" effect... keep it 3rd person with over the shoulder "right-click" for first-person like in ME1 .... and we're all happy ... I don't get wtf you want to blend the two more then that.... your "head shot" "l33t" attitudes don't add to a games fun ... "I WIN" buttons = U FAIL! in terms of game design ... so leave it at the door pls ... along with your ego's! kkthx

[AudioEpics]

I haven't read this whole thread but just wanted to throw in my two cents for those interested. As a European (a BELGIAN actually, how boring is that?), I haven't had the chance to play ME2 yet but I wonder: am I alone in this when I say that I'm very much an RPG fan who plays pen & paper RPGs and almost never plays any other genre in video games BUT I don't really care how "RPGish" ME2 is in terms of stats, inventory, loot and all that kind of stuff. All I want is great dialogue options to choose between, moral choices, party interaction, lots of quests both "main" and "side" and a good balance between these aspects and combat + exploration. That's all I care about and always has been. I only prefer RPGs over other genres because they are the only games that combine epic storytelling, dialogue options and social interaction with combat and exploration. I couldn't care less whether that's enough to call a game a "true RPG" or not because it's not the genre label that matters to me, just the experience of the game.

Does anyone else feel this way? And if so, if you have played ME2, do you like it?

[Archilochos]

Having some real trouble with all the genre factionalization here - why is it people on both sides seem to have some problem with the idea that it's perfectly reasonable for people to want to play games that they, y'know, LIKE?

@the "anti-RPG" wing of the "Shooter fans" - (as though that made sense.  I've loved both genres since my RPGs were by Origin and SSI and my FPSs included the now forgotten Blake Stone).  The reason the "RPG purists" (whatever that means - if we're going to be complete, you'll need to divide them up further into western and JRPG purists) are upset is that they, as a minority of gamers, fear that the introduction of shooter fans into their genre will give developers an incentive to move away from "pure" RPGS.  Because there are already few RPG developers, the loss of even one is a serious injury to the genre, potentially leading to "RPG purists" not having any games that they, y'know, LIKE.  "Shooter fans" - how would you feel if the next Halo popped in with complex dialog trees and forty five minute conversations?  What if other shooters started doing the same?

@the "anti-Shooter" wing of the "RPG purists" - Like you, "Shooter fans" are just looking for a game they, y'know, LIKE.  Their tastes are different.  They've decided to stop and try and RGP that looks like it might be good.  They may not understand why you don't like their genre, just as you probably don't understand why they don't like yours.  They aren't individually responsible for their own market majority, so what to you is a very real fear of RPGs being trampled by the market is to them paranoia.  When your preferred genre is one of the biggest out there, the loss of one IP or even developer isn't as big a deal, because another is sure to fill in the gap.  Since the invention of the Shooter, there have been shooters.  "Shooter fans" don't really have any memories comparable to the pre-Fallout 1 / Baldur's Gate era of AAA RPG drought RPG players experienced following the decline of the Gold Box games and the Ultima series.  "Shooter fans" already have to put up with the bad image foul mouthed, hostile Red Bull guzzling XBox Live mutant step children have managed to give their genre.  It's perfectly understandable that they might be sensitive to elitism, or see it in comments where it was not intended.

[walker834]

This is how ea works and what they thrive on man. We are all pawns. negativity, positivity is all good to them. The fact they have so many different people buying this game with different opinions is why EA is such a huge company. Whether its good or bad is another story.  The best thing to do if you don't like it is to not buy the game and never speak of it again.  Easier said than done.  bioware goes by the wayside they will just buy another up coming company and ****** off another group of people and reap the benefits.  EA bought bioware and bioware sold when they were on the verge of hitting the top.  That's what they do.

Modifié par walker834, 27 janvier 2010 - 08:59 .

[Fafner_Ni]

Teknor wrote...

Many people whine here not because ME2 is not a RPG but because whining about ME2 not being a RPG gives them some kind a bizarre feeling of superiority over shooter crowd.

Ofcourse they do, because as we all know every shooter fan has the IQ of a spunge. /sarcasam.

[Aestivalis]

I don't understand why OP is acting so shocked, Bioware has been emphasizing the improved shooter mechanics of ME2 for months now.



If you didn't like the direction ME2 was going, then you shouldn't of bought the game. You had a ton of previews, videos, and interviews to inform your opinion.

[Racan]

Jeez, I hope Bioware doesn't listen to the whiners and discard most of the good changes for ME3.

[EG NeoMorph]

To start off, I haven't played ME2 yet but I do like reading books (for the story) and dislike Third Person Shooters yet love RPGs... Get the likes? STORYTELLING.

The thing about Mass Effect 1 is that you could play it through multiple times and STILL come across new dialogue it seems. I was playing it through last night as I have been all last week and I still found new jewels amid the dialogue. It is the little gems that light up a good RPG.

What I am hearing here though is that it is more of an RPS (Role Playing Shooter) than an RPG. Changing the guns to have what is in essence ammo (turning the bible explanation of the bullets being miniscule slivers accellerated to high velocity to ruin) is like having a sequel to a book and then saying what happened in the first book was a dream...

Are we having a Bobby Ewing Dream Sequence here? I'm beginning to think so... perhaps Shepard is having a nightmare from his injuries inflicted at the end of Mass Effect 1. Perhaps he got indoctrinated and doesn't know it... ME2 didn't actually happen and he's still on Virmire.

Oh well... I get the game either today or tomorrow.. but from what I am hearing here isn't encouraging me a bit... Back to reading Mass Effect: Ascension.. at least I know that will tell me a story... hehe

Modifié par EG NeoMorph, 27 janvier 2010 - 09:20 .

[Scoop]

the reason for my post is to point out that BW is miss reading their community... which is largely "RPG" folks ... not FPS ... as noted... they have removed way too many RPG elements and went far to far towards FPS .... I've stated also that removing the "Mouse to turn etc movement" mechanic would remove alot of the "seasick" element now in ME2 that wasnt present in ME1 (it's way more linked then it was in ME1) ... but that still leaves them removing a ton of RPG elements ... yes ... the story masks alot of what was removed ... which serves the FPS crowd well as they have no patience for the RPG elements ... advice: take your redlin and stick to FPS games .. stop frakin up our RPG genre! (as one over the age of 40 ... let the kids have their ADD addictions .. but pls stop makin those of us that "ACTUALLY PAY" for these games ... endure their idoicy! or ... yes we will stop "paying" for these stupid design decisions! kkthx

[sinosleep]

EG NeoMorph wrote...
What I am hearing here though is that it is more of an RPS (Role Playing Shooter) than an RPG. Changing the guns to have what is in essence ammo (turning the bible explanation of the bullets being miniscule slivers accellerated to high velocity to ruin) is like having a sequel to a book and then saying what happened in the first book was a dream...

How many times do I have to post a correction to this incorrect logic? There is no goddamned ammo in the traditional sense. You AREN'T picking up magazines filled with bullets to load into your weapon to shoot at th enemy. Your weapon STILL hass a big block of metal in it that gets shaved into itty bitty pieces to get blasted at the enemy. The lore is UNTOUCHED in that regard.

What is FUNCTIONALLY serving as ammo in ME 2 are HEATSYNCS. The ME 1 codex didn't mention a single damned word about heat dissipation in the codex so there is no lore to contradict. They've just replaced the passive cooling, with active heatsync changes. Each heatsync affords you X amount of shots with said weapon before you have to change it out. So again, FUNCTIONALLY, it's acts like ammo since it restricts the number of shots. Lorewise though, it doesn't change the fact you have a big block of metal being shaved into essentially infinite ammo inside of your weapon. So using lore as a crutch for saying you don't like the ammo mechanic simply can't be done.

[Merchant2006]

ZilaSkye wrote...

Unbelievable ... BW ... you actually listened the whining FPS crowd ... and totally gutted the RPG from ME2... lay off the drugs for ME3 pls ... kkthx

Seriously ... love the story etc ... and the combat was "perfect" in ME1 in terms of havin a tad of FPS without making us RPG folks "seasick" with FPS mechanics ... totally ticks me off that the FPS crowd is ruining the RPG genre like this.  Do you not yet realize that the majority of players the "love" a game ... don't post!  just the whiners that have fracked up dozens of dev team design doc's over the years..as they know "Nada"! about what is fun and what isn'!!

GRRRRRR!
Enjoy!

Modifié par Merchant2006, 27 janvier 2010 - 09:29 .

[Scoop]

and Archilochos (sp?) ... RPG folks are not in the minority .... we are the "MAJORITY"!!!! We apparently don't whine enough on forums however... which is the sad state of the universe... whine more ..type more = intellgience!... sounds like the illogic that got us the current President. ><



RPG folks are the bread and butter ... and the future is RPG crowd ... twitch is just that .. twitch and is ADD based.... which means it lasts 5 sec ... and you can't base a business model on a crowd of folks with 5 sec attention spans ... please move along and stick to your console sports games (and military shooters) ... and leave the rest of the world that loves a good story and the journey from start to finish .. without the game or the mechanics gettin in the way of the "FUN"!



If you don't understand to which I speak... you need to cancel your Bioware account and move alont to the "free to play" games where "intelligience" and wisdom matters not! /waves good-bye to those now leaving!

[Dellingr]

sinosleep wrote...

EG NeoMorph wrote...
What I am hearing here though is that it is more of an RPS (Role Playing Shooter) than an RPG. Changing the guns to have what is in essence ammo (turning the bible explanation of the bullets being miniscule slivers accellerated to high velocity to ruin) is like having a sequel to a book and then saying what happened in the first book was a dream...

How many times do I have to post a correction to this incorrect logic? There is no goddamned ammo in the traditional sense. You AREN'T picking up magazines filled with bullets to load into your weapon to shoot at th enemy. Your weapon STILL hass a big block of metal in it that gets shaved into itty bitty pieces to get blasted at the enemy. The lore is UNTOUCHED in that regard.

What is FUNCTIONALLY serving as ammo in ME 2 are HEATSYNCS. The ME 1 codex didn't mention a single damned word about heat dissipation in the codex so there is no lore to contradict. They've just replaced the passive cooling, with active heatsync changes. Each heatsync affords you X amount of shots with said weapon before you have to change it out. So again, FUNCTIONALLY, it's acts like ammo since it restricts the number of shots. Lorewise though, it doesn't change the fact you have a big block of metal being shaved into essentially infinite ammo inside of your weapon. So using lore as a crutch for saying you don't like the ammo mechanic simply can't be done.

This, I also dislike that particular factual meltdown

[Merchant2006]

Well I still gotta wait 2 more days, but I couldn't care less. I'll have fun while everyone else can 'discuss in an orderly manner' ^^

[Scoop]

sinosleep ..... I certainly hope your not tryin to make the case that .... finding random "ammo" on the ground is more practical ... then the way ME1 handled it ... oh wait.. ME1 was more like an RPG then ME2 ... well duh!!! ME2 has crossed the "bridge to far" imho!

[sinosleep]

I'm making the case that I'll be happy when you are banned for all the irrelevant insult filled spam you've been posting throughout the forums and that hopefully people are reporting. That and the case that people that are saying they don't like the ammo for lore reasons don't know what they are talking about.



You can say you don't like it just cause, but trying to blame it on lore when it's got nothing to do with it is ridiculous.

[TheGuv]

Perhaps its time people went back to basics and remembered what RPG actually means.  It means Role Playing Game.  That means you pick a role in the game/story and you play it.

It does not mean you are a walking statsheet.  Elite had nothing to do with statsheets but it was a seminal role playing game.

Mass Effect 2 did away with all the dull elements of the first game (inventory management which had no flair without fantasy items) and kept all the ones that made it fun - story, dialogue, cover based gameplay, character interactions, choice in how your character became better.

There was nothing fun about being artificially restricted in the gun types you used at the start of Mass Effect 1.

[Terror_K]

ME2's massive popularity just proves that the game has been made more mainstream and less for their old RPG fans. Halo, Gears of War and Modern Warfare 2 all had the same type of response and were massive hits. The biggest games aren't the best games... they're the most overhyped ones.



But I suppose that's the way the wind is blowing and BioWare want to catch the breeze. It's become more about money than actually creating something that's good. It's about appealing to the masses rather than appealing to the nerd culture.

[Terror_K]

KazuyaWright wrote...

I've been on the old forums for a few years now and i've got to say that these new forums are a lot more hostile. Guys, you CAN disagree without being disrespectful of each other.

Yeah... it's amazing how downhill the place is gone ever since... about mid-2009 actually. About the time the advertising starting appealing to the mainstream audiences and essentially gave an open invitation for the football jocks to join the previously nerd-driven sorority house. :innocent:

[sinosleep]

And yet they all sit at 90+ on metacritic. Yes, things can be both popular, AND good.