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Pillars of Eternity - Releasing March 26


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#351
Ascendra

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You made me think and it makes it alot harder to reply. No i don't find PoE to be high fantasy, and i do agree that DA:I is more that way. I guess since both DA:O and PoE has that more personal down to earth story which is more focused around the individuals. I can't find the words! I will come back to this :P

 

Hah, I also thought about it way too much more than I should. I believe that it essentially comes down to your definition of high fantasy, which seems to be a bit different for different people. :) 

But definitely come back! Gotta keep those walls'o'txt flowing. :D


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#352
saMoorai

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Nexus mods always start like that.

 

Oh, and since I bought the game how's the writing so far guys?

I really adore the writing in this, particularly a lot of the background lore. 

 

Also, Durance is amazing. 



#353
Ascendra

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Nexus mods always start like that.

 

Oh, and since I bought the game how's the writing so far guys?

 

Yeah, its a wonder people can squeeze bewbs even into a game with an isometric view :D

 

I like the writing, nicely descriptive without being too overbearing.

 

I kinda miss the horrible accents they had in BG and Planescape Torment, the peasants, the pompous nobles and especially Annah's lovely manner of speaking (Sigil speak is the best). They gave this old feel to the setting. I havent encountered anything similar in PoE so far.



#354
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Speaking of Planescape...

 

When is Torment out?



#355
Ascendra

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Late 2015. Thats all they are saying so far.



#356
Akrabra

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I do hope Chris Avellone is involved in writing it? 



#357
Ascendra

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Yup, he is. Not sure who or what he is writing though. If anyone knows please share.



#358
Puzzlewell

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Last time I checked, Chris is going to at the very least be responsible for one of the ToN companions. Much like PoE I haven't really kept up with the KS updates since I want to go in mostly blind but I do remember that being mentioned when they announced that he'd have a hand in it.


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#359
LinksOcarina

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I am just calling it now, Tides of Numenara has nothing to do with Planescape Torment. I hated the fact that they used to tout it as a spiritual successor to the game, and I am not really on board with that one as much as I was for Pillars.I am intrigued by the promising themes of the game, but I am cautiously guarded.

 

 

That's all fair, but at the same time... one isn't required to go for Caed Nua first. Many players DO (I know I was tempted to beeline for the Stronghold), but that doesn't make it a requirement, like gaining X amount of power to leave the Hinterlands. I think you are laying a lot at the feet of what you perceive as a forced grind section of the game that isn't truly the case.

 

I had this discussion with someone in the DA:I forums a few weeks back, except it was in regards to DA:O's side quests instead of PoE's. 

 

I really appreciate options in quests. Even moreso than true narrative storycraft. Bland dialogue doesn't hop out to me nearly as much as linear quest design.

 

So the options you gave of good side quests, while they may have been written well, still fall flat with me. For the Blades quest, you aren't given any options - you either craft the item to challenge the leader or you don't. Sure, you can kill him without challenging him (which does nothing except leave all of the Blades hostile to you), but that's more of a quest failure than a choice, in my eyes. 

 

Same thing for the Hinterlands Cult - nearly everything is handled very linearly minus the rewards for certain quests, like Analis giving different Influence or recruit bonuses. While that may have more meta-story applications, it isn't that much different than deciding between 100 gold or a +1 Sword of Smiting.

 

The judgments I feel are the few side quests that offer true choices. And those are done fairly well, if sometmes a little flat. But that is a vast sea of linearity to find the one oasis of non-crit path choice. YMMV, as always, but I was nearly giddy with the choices in the first dungeon of PoE, where I could solve the puzzle, I could attack the imp, I could avoid both obstacles altogether... options that have next to zero writing and which ultimately don't affect much of anything... but still, choices. Choices which let me define my game experience and define what my character does. Those things are worth more, to me, than a mountain of linear, excellently written quests.

 

 

 

 

 

I guess I haven't encountered the feeling of gating yet... but I'm a completionist at heart, so I naturally "grind" side quest content first anyway.

 

 

 

 

I'd be interested in your review, Rob. Let us know when you post it.

 

One takeaway I have is that, as you know from tabeltop experiences, sometimes being underleveled doesn't mean you need to grind. It just means you may need to engage in tactics you might have never thought of normally. This is usually much more prevalent in tabletop, because if that level 20 lich in the next room your 5th level party just spotted is in your game, you can't reload a save to an earlier point to grind out some levels. 

 

Maybe there are other solutions outside of direct combat. Or maybe it is forcing the player to do things like scout, set traps, switch weapon sets, plan out encounters... get good at the actual gameplay mechanics instead of steamrolling through with the most direct approach based off of character level strength alone. One thing I think PoE is guilty of is the same thing nearly every other RPG (or video game period, honestly) is guilty of - a poor approach to teaching the player to use the more nuanced game mechanics. The game tells you how to click the sneak button and what it does, but it doesn't encourage the player to do things like scout out an area, lay down some traps, lay down a slick spell, switch to a long range weapon, attack an enemy, snipe it as it takes damage from the trap and slipping, switch back to melee weapons as the enemy gets up and appraoches, then begin the encounter as normal, but with a big chunk of damage and penalties inflicted on the target.

 

Not saying you don't do or know how to do these things, but many gamers just want to rush in and attack every enemy using the same rotation of skills and cooldowns over and over again and get frustrated when it doesn't work every time. Maybe it is forcing grinding, yes. But maybe it is encouraging people to get better at aspects of the game they aren't fully utilizing.

 

 

 

But that's more of a tirade than a true response to your statement.

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting honorable mentions. What Crono Trigger did as a time traveling video game has yet to be matched, in my experience/opinion. For Planescape, I'll say that is a solid choice, although one with mechanic and leveling issues, as you freely admit. 

I can't agree on Mass Effect. What it does well is truly impressive, but narratively speaking it was such a dumpster fire from ME2 on (not even just the ending of ME3, but pretty much the entire story outside of stopping Sovereign and Saren) and the progressive shift towards more of a FPS over an RPG made it seem like it almost fell outside the scope of the genre by the end. But that's a total derailment of the topic at hand.

 

Of course one is not required to take care of Caed Nua, but you also need to take care of it so you can open up the game world further, from what I recall. Not sure if you can enter Defiance Bay without Caed Nua being completed or not.

 

As a comparison, after the first initial bit from the Hinterlands, you have the Fallow Mire, Storm Coast and the Shard Temple to explore, build up a bit and then move on to the main quest, which in turn opens up the rest of the map. So four areas, five if you count Orlais, while Pillars has eight area's you can go to. Seems good, but many of those area's are very tiny, and have little in them except mobs and in the case of the Eastern forest before Raderic's Hold, gravesites with backer names in them. 

 

And after the fact too. I noticed that once you hit level 5 your character progression becomes very slow, so you need to take down some quests for big experience piles to keep going. So the grind is there, just in quest form. 

 

Regarding choice, the same can be said with almost any RPG that is what I keep touting as the narrative experience vs the plot experience. How you go about things is done in several ways; be it actively solving a questline or not, how you talk to people, and what you say or do. The opening dungeon had three options to get through it, all of them good choices in design for the game. But it's the same thing as the dialogue options in Pillars as well, they get to the same conclusion, just different rewards. It is a linear structure still, what shapes all of that is narrative decisions on how to play the character in the situation. Same with other games too, like Dragon Age. 

 

It also is kind of funny to see a door blocking puzzle in the way of your progress...only to find out that there is a key to that door hidden in a book in the next room. In fact, ive noticed that every puzzle or locked door has a key to it that is somewhere on the current map you are in. 

 

And a fun fact, I keep staying in scout mode so I can uncover hidden items mostly, and move characters into position. Thankfully the game has good choke points for a given dungeon at least. Traps however, I have not used, never do really, its much more lucrative to sell them than use them outright if you ask me. I can see why people may need to plan it, but it then becomes an issue of over-planning, which i'm not a fan of because it leads to deadlock in even tabletop RPGs, and hoping you get lucky in the end with your plans.

 

That is something that hasn't come up yet, glancing vs normal vs critical hits. There is a degree of luck involved so an encounter can be ridiculously easy if you get a string of critical's, over a balls hard when every hit is a glancing blow for 0.7 damage. So even if you plan ahead with a fire trap and have Aloth throw some oil slick on the floor for them to fall, that doesn't guarantee a win. It just makes it slightly easier.

 

 

 


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#360
Farangbaa

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After having some tough times in the beginning of the game (as usual in these type of games, cause your character stinks and has trouble hitting a wall :P), things are starting to get a little easyn now, especially after I picked up that fighter I missed out on earlier.

Should've done Path of the Damned :P but oh well, hard is ok for a first run I suppose.

But I do agree with the above post, sometimes luck is a very big factor in battles. There were times I got utterly crushed the first time around, and then the second time I wouldn't do much different, but I'd just do more damage with spells and normal attacks then before.

#361
Ascendra

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I am just calling it now, Tides of Numenara has nothing to do with Planescape Torment. I hated the fact that they used to tout it as a spiritual successor to the game, and I am not really on board with that one as much as I was for Pillars.I am intrigued by the promising themes of the game, but I am cautiously guarded.

 

I think its kinda given. They never claimed it to be Torment 2, since there is nothing to continue TNO's story with and they never got the rights to Dnd to create a game based in the Planes as far as I recall.

So yeah, totally different universe but has similarities with the DnD Planes, probably the same as PoE has similarities with DnD. I dont really see the difference between the two, unless you consider one taking a part of a beloved name and another not.

I also recently allowed myself to take a sneak peak at some of the updates and the game looks sick. Its definitely crazy. Torment crazy. So I'm not really worried about it.

 

 

But I do agree with the above post, sometimes luck is a very big factor in battles. There were times I got utterly crushed the first time around, and then the second time I wouldn't do much different, but I'd just do more damage with spells and normal attacks then before.

 

Heh, sometimes luck was the only thing keeping you alive in Baldur's Gate, so here's your direct spiritual succession.  :P


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#362
Akrabra

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After having some tough times in the beginning of the game (as usual in these type of games, cause your character stinks and has trouble hitting a wall :P), things are starting to get a little easyn now, especially after I picked up that fighter I missed out on earlier.

Should've done Path of the Damned :P but oh well, hard is ok for a first run I suppose.

But I do agree with the above post, sometimes luck is a very big factor in battles. There were times I got utterly crushed the first time around, and then the second time I wouldn't do much different, but I'd just do more damage with spells and normal attacks then before.

I agree, i am playing on hard and it was brutal the first 10 hours or so, but now i almost don't have to pause when going through battles. Alteast not normal ones against brigands, trolls and such. So i am definately trying Path of The Damned next playthrough since it alters the stats of creatures and such. 

 

And i just want to say two words - Grieving Mother. All the other companions are ok, but she is amazing. 



#363
In Exile

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This is the first game that ever spoiled me on its own story. Obsidian screwed up some of the companion dialogue triggers when doing side quests so that they talk about the MQ.

So I had a few times where companions told me they'd help me hunt characters I didn't know I was looking for or ask me about my plans for securing an audience I didn't know I needed.

It's not a big deal but still, makes me wonder about the beta.

#364
ObserverStatus

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Nexus mods always start like that.

 

Oh, and since I bought the game how's the writing so far guys?

Are you familiar with the Nexus cycle then? How much longer before I can replace my companions with naked anime characters?



#365
Akrabra

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I swear Ogre Druid is the new Marauder Shields, sigh. 



#366
wolfhowwl

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This is the first game that ever spoiled me on its own story. Obsidian screwed up some of the companion dialogue triggers when doing side quests so that they talk about the MQ.

So I had a few times where companions told me they'd help me hunt characters I didn't know I was looking for or ask me about my plans for securing an audience I didn't know I needed.

It's not a big deal but still, makes me wonder about the beta.

 

The beta? You're playing it.



#367
In Exile

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Nexus mods always start like that.

Oh, and since I bought the game how's the writing so far guys?


It depends on what you mean when you say writing. The game is really imaginative and the prose is good. At the same time the PC dialogue options are pretty underwhelming to start. They're writing to adhere to (the more varied) tones that exist in POE and you can turn the indicators on or off but that's really about as much flavour as you get out of the dialogue. It gets better as you go past Act I though.

The companion writing is clever. If you played NWN you know what you're in for with them.

The game (so far) doesn't focus very much on companions. They interact a bit while in your party and they have their quests however.

The quest writing in my view really suffers. Obsidian clearly wanted to write a dark and gritty world but they - in my view - fail at really realising that vision. The choices aren't always sensible and you're really limited in how you can approach quests via dialogue besides exploiting the brilliantly reactive dialogue options or siding with people.

#368
In Exile

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I really adore the writing in this, particularly a lot of the background lore.

Also, Durance is amazing.


I think he's quest is bugged for me. It says to speak with him about a certain event but there's no dialogue option for it.

#369
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Is anyone trying an "evil" playthrough? Does the game give leeway for that?



#370
In Exile

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Is anyone trying an "evil" playthrough? Does the game give leeway for that?


You can be cruel and aggressive. And the game reacts to it. That's pretty close to "evil".

#371
Ascendra

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And i just want to say two words - Grieving Mother. All the other companions are ok, but she is amazing.


Heh, it was already very late in RL when I picked her up, and I was tired, sleepy and english isnt my native language. So i talked to her, then talked to her again, and got a brain leak. :D Decided it was time for bed. Will try again today.
But yeah, she quite awesome.

I also kind of like the fact that characters arent defined by their height or the shape of their ears. Aloth and Sagani could have been any of the races and their stories would not change. Oh and Im really liking Sagani tbh, at least her culture. Shame my ranger makes her a bit redundant.
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#372
Ascendra

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You can be cruel and aggressive. And the game reacts to it. That's pretty close to "evil".

 


I *think* there are instances where you have good vs evil choice. For example at the end of Gilded Vale quests you can side with the local lord or another guy that wants to bring him down. I assume siding with the guy that hangs people on the trees would be considered evil.



#373
A Crusty Knight Of Colour

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I *think* there are instances where you have good vs evil choice. For example at the end of Gilded Vale quests you can side with the local lord or another guy that wants to bring him down. I assume siding with the guy that hangs people on the trees would be considered evil.

 

IIRC, you don't get shifted on any alignment scale for it. I got negative reputation for doing Raedric's bidding though.

 

Spoiler



#374
Milan92

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After some more reseach on POE, I do have to admit that it looks more interesting than before.

 

I might consider getting it :)



#375
Lotion Soronarr

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The quest writing in my view really suffers. Obsidian clearly wanted to write a dark and gritty world but they - in my view - fail at really realising that vision. The choices aren't always sensible and you're really limited in how you can approach quests via dialogue besides exploiting the brilliantly reactive dialogue options or siding with people.

 

Yeah, sometimes the obvious choices are missing.

 

Like that quest to get the breastplate back for that ex knight? When you are confronted by the other guy you get the option to attack him, blackmail him for money, just hand over the evidence, etc... but NOT to demand the breastplate in exchange, which was what I would have gone for.

2 wrongs don't make a right and to destroy a persons career and dreams because of his past life doesn't sit well with me.