83 réponses à ce sujet

[ALTBOULI]

Tbh,I'm little sorry I involved myself into this discussion at all,but what is done is done,I guess.

You should be ashamed of yourself!

[DrKilledbyDeath]

Maybe it's just me, but if someone says they can solo something my expectation is that you finish wave 5. It isn't soloing just because you can create a perilous lobby.

[Zorinho20_CRO]

You should be ashamed of yourself!

[Lil Mantis]

Played the Katari last night.   Started as a Level 9 on Perilous. As stated previously by someone else on this thread, the changes are noticeable but not over powering at all.  You still have to pick and choose your shots.  It did allow to play a bit more aggressive but not by too much.   What I did find interesting is the random spawning of mobs when you are near the exit of the zone.  Spawned behind us and as soon as they were down, saw a spawn back in front of us...   So it kept us on our toes for the first few matches as we adjusted.  

[Kenny Bania]

I solo'd perilous with a lvl 4 Katari pre-buff.

[Zorinho20_CRO]

I solo'd perilous with a lvl 4 Katari pre-buff.

I'll believe you only if your alt is Belnick

[ALTBOULI]

I solo'd perilous with a lvl 4 Katari pre-buff.

You could change that to routine and I still wouldnt believe you

[Drasca]

Tbh,I'm little sorry I involved myself into this discussion at all,but what is done is done,I guess.

Haters be hating. (&*$ being ashamed.

[Kenny Bania]

I'll believe you only if your alt is Belnick

 

Belnick trained me.

 

You could change that to routine and I still wouldnt believe you

 

[Robbiesan]

I like the Katari buff.  Good job on that BW.

[McPartyson]

110 const = +500 health / +50% melee defense

110 willpower = +50% AP / +50% magic defense

110 cunning = +50% Crit / +50% ranged defense

 

Do stats matter? Yes. If someone has anything close to the above example (100 promotions in each stat) then they pretty much faceroll effortlessly.

 

Is there some strategy involved in the combat of the game? Yes and No. Some strategy like somewhat decent skill rotations matter. But there's some strategies that i've heard from players that just feel like unintentional game mechanics due to their clunky nature.

[Drasca]

110 const = +500 health / +50% melee defense

110 willpower = +50% AP / +50% magic defense

110 cunning = +50% Crit / +50% ranged defense

 

Do stats matter? Yes. If someone has anything close to the above example (100 promotions in each stat) then they pretty much faceroll effortlessly.

 

 

Stats matter, but not as much as people think, because they don't occur in a vacuum, and the actual results are much less than what people expect when looking at promotes vacuum. Sure you'd get the max benefit from playing a level one character with no gear or abilities-- but who does that?

 

I'll bring up a few examples of why promoted stats are diminishing returns.

 

Let's start with defense. Assuming SP's 80% defense cap is in play, the 50% defense is wasted for a S&S warrior who already has 30% front defense from shield alone, and an additional 20% from turn the blade. Let alone turn the bolt, which is 50% ranged defense to begin with. That's one magic abillity point, worth 100 pts of cunning for ranged defense. All the defense %'s are also rendered obsolete by outright invincibility skills and gear that triggers invincibility. Always invincible Lego anyone? Fade Cloak / Step available for all mages, let alone easy barrier generation for most. The same is true for AoE CC abilities. If the enemy is CC'ed, they cannot do damage to you. Even with max defense %, you'd still die without invincibility skills, and it isn't 'faceroll effortlessly' due to stats.

 

Additionally, Magic Defense does not help against spirit damage, arguably the most important to defend against outside of electric and cold.

 

What about critical chance? Lots of ways to get guaranteed criticals. No need for the base + promoted value to be extreme. Mercy Killing / Death Blow = guaranteed critical during sleep/panick. Oh look, knockout bomb, shock+weak combo, and what's this... war horn. For Katari + Dagger rogues , Opportunist + Sneak attack passives greatly increase. Let alone knife in the shadows and all the other guaranteed critical chance passives available.

 

Damage then, surely damage matters.

 

For the Reaver and Katari, one stack of fervor = 30% ability multiplier damage (which is better than attack power btw), or +60 willpower. The 2H War does not need to get the kill. Fervor stacks multiple times until the duration runs out. There are other cases where the attack power is additive, not multiplicative, or mixed in only resulting in a minor increase in damage. Case in point, Long Shot, the bonus 800% damage is not affected by attack power (from willpower), only the base damage is. If you normally hit for 2.5k with long shot, even a +100% attack power increase means the damage is actually only increased to 2.7k vs before. Longshot rings, critical damage bonus rings, OTOH, multiply everything.

 

Oh... but there's also that whole overkill issue, an increase of damage doesn't always mean a decrease in total number of hits required to kill the enemy. If you only need one hit to begin with, in the case of twin fangs, additional attack power won't help. If an enemy has 2000 hp, and you do 1000 damage per hit, any damage increase from 1001 to 1999 won't matter since it'll still require two hits.

 

In short, stats matter, but without perspective within the context of gear and builds, you won't realize how little they actually matter. If you get jealous of someone else's stats, and think that's all that matters, then you're just a noob.

[ALTBOULI]

110 const = +500 health / +50% melee defense

110 willpower = +50% AP / +50% magic defense

110 cunning = +50% Crit / +50% ranged defense

 

Do stats matter? Yes. If someone has anything close to the above example (100 promotions in each stat) then they pretty much faceroll effortlessly.

 

Is there some strategy involved in the combat of the game? Yes and No. Some strategy like somewhat decent skill rotations matter. But there's some strategies that i've heard from players that just feel like unintentional game mechanics due to their clunky nature.

no no your wrong its all about strategy and skill or 'strate-skill' as we pro's like to call it. In all seriousness thank you for proving my point Anyone who argues that stats aren't important are only kidding themselves 

[DrKilledbyDeath]

It seems the only people who say stats don't matter are the people who (presumably) have high stats. What is the arguement to tell me an extra 500hp isn't that big of a deal? That is almost twice the amount of a level 20 necro at base. One of the things that makes threatening easy for me now is that most of my classes can 1 shot a good portion of the enemies. If I could promote enough to 1 shot perilous enemies it would be so much easier. Not to mention if your crit chance is high you can stop using a crit chance ring and get something like flanking or crit damage bonus. I am pretty sure that if I was 110/110/110 I could solo perilous on every class.

[Texasmotiv]

I do feel like Skill and Promotions and Gear are all important but the problem is you can't really test them individually because they all come along side eachother naturally with time anyway. I suppose you could take a seasoned player and a newbie player and have them play on eachothers accounts to test but I'm not really sure it would return any useful data as the only objective measurements are score (in a team setting) and operation pass/failure(in a solo setting). Then again, the skillset that it takes to Solo an operation is different than the skill set to work cooperatively with an entire team. There is some overlap but I'm not sure its really worth arguing about.

[xROLLxTIDEx]

Promotions matter... quite a bit.  Anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves.  This game has a very low skill cap.  The only thing more important than promotions are BiS weapons and HoK rings. All other accessories can be "replaced" via promotions.

 

Constitution = 55

Cunning = 45

Willpower = 36

 

And it is a HUGE difference over 10/10/10.  

[ParthianShotX]

. . .. I suppose you could take a seasoned player and a newbie player and have them play on eachothers accounts to test  . . .

 

That would be interesting.  I distantly remember how hard it seemed at the beginning and I'm only middling now with just a rough handful of promotions buffing each attribute. 

[McPartyson]

Additionally, Magic Defense does not help against spirit damage, arguably the most important to defend against outside of electric and cold.

 

 

I did not know this. Is this a fact?

[Drasca]

I did not know this. Is this a fact?

 

Easy to verify yourself if you have a magic defense belt / wiillpower upgrades vs demon wraiths.

 

This game has a very low skill cap. 

 

Only if you play low skill builds like SB AW, and are talentless. I do not and am not. There's certainly levels of mastery above what you currently believe. If you want to call me elitist, have fun, because it won't help you get better. Unfortunately for you, there's multiple BSNers that've witnessed & testified my skill level, and it is not found lacking.

 

Extremely skilled players don't get hit much, and promotes aren't a factor because the situational awareness and ability to avoid damage outright doesn't even require gear or stats since cover and strafe buttons can avoid almost all damage. Add active abilities into the mix (CR, FC, FS etc), these are all seperate from promotes. Even if they do get hit, they learn how to avoid it next time instead of accepting failure with no improvement. Gear helps a lot, and promotes help too, but the player that dances around enemy abilities has already avoided almost all enemy damage to begin with. low skill cap is for noobs that can't imagine anything more than see enemy, SB enemy. 

 

Just because you can't imagine better, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I know I'm not the only one to play this way, and I like to surround myself with tightly skilled and coordinated players (they're able to anyway, even if they're drinking while doing so).

 

 

 What is the arguement to tell me an extra 500hp isn't that big of a deal?

 

If you are talentless or have a lapse in judgement in Perilous, an extra 500 hp won't help you at all, since there's multiple sources of spike damage that will eat through 500 hp like nothing and kill you. Horrors are the literal form of spike damage. Shadow's sewing needle of doom will do around 500 damage per hit, with multiple hits. It can tear through barrier AND guardian spirit if you let it. Full barrier and upgraded SoS barrier no, but the scenario is someone not paying attention so a fresh barrier at 100% is not likely. Red Templar Commander's ESS, WW. Archers on Venatori will do the same. Brutes, Terrors, etc will keep you knocked down if you have no good answer for them. Lots of situations where the hp is not enough to be useful, especially when playing as an idiot. I've lost count of how many times I've seen pugs charge in with full barrier (on any class/kit) and get themselves killed immediately.

 

Barrier alone is worth up to 5k equivalent hp, minus relative armor & heal benefits. It helps the keeper and AW the least (often the most played classes on perilous). There's reasons why consitution is criticized for being the weakest promote.

 

It is a bigger deal for some classes than others (melee & healing kits / gear benefit the most). What's a bigger deal is having skill and builds to answer those situations to begin with, and gear to follow it up.

 

Do promotes help? Obviously, but they only help players who are already winning, win more. They aren't a game changer, and cannot turn the battle around from a losing position. Only the players themselves, then the skill builds & gear they've chosen / received (blessed by RNG) can do that.

[xROLLxTIDEx]

Drasca. I have watched your videos. I am not impressed by your "skill". Nor do I care what other BSNers attest to.

When i see your videos I see someone with LESS skill who plays far more selfishly than myself. I am not impressed by you one bit. I can pick 10 guys on my friend's list better than you. Get over yourself. And if you had friends that you played with consistently then you wouldn't play so selfishly or try so hard to find validation on a gaming forum.

[CitizenThom]

Funny, I just figured how to make pre-buff Katari more threatening/perilous viable a couple days before he got buffed. Maybe I can complete his 100 missions challenge in the next few weeks now ha ha... as I wont have to earthshattering strike behind cover anymore (call it the N7 Slayer move if you will).

[Broganisity]

Wait, you mean I now have ANOTHER way to get guard?

BEEP BEEP HERE COMES THE MURDER TRAIN.

[ALTBOULI]

Looooooooooool he actually tried to pull out the 'skilled' card again. Oh my days, in his Reaver video he actually has a keeper following him round spamming barrier, then has the nerve to say he doesnt get hit. Notice how the same people who talk about skill are the same people wiith insanley high stats.

@Drasca were still waiting for you to demonstrate your 'skill' with 3 Fadecloaks in 10 seconds. You have no trouble making other videos so this should be a piece of cake for you right?

[EVILFLUFFMONSTER]

You guys are all silly. This is a forum - somebody has made a challenge that can't be completed and another a claim that can never be proven(satisfactorily anyhow) . I'm sure Drasca is way more skilled than I am at least, which isn't hard.

Can we please move on?

[ALTBOULI]

You guys are all silly. This is a forum - somebody has made a challenge that can't be completed and another a claim that can never be proven(satisfactorily anyhow) . I'm sure Drasca is way more skilled than I am at least, which isn't hard.
Can we please move on?

If you dont like it then dont get involved - if some continues to make stupid statments and talk down to other posters then he should be called out for his stupidity.