83 réponses à ce sujet

[Stinja]

So.... on topic...

 

Promotions matter... quite a bit.  Anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves.  This game has a very low skill cap.  The only thing more important than promotions are BiS weapons and HoK rings. 

 

I've been maining Katari since i tried Iron Bull in SP, and HoK rings were by far the biggest game changer for me.  Then level 20+ weapons: Sundering which i use, Dragon Hunter seem fairly common (still no Sulevin).  Then +200 health belt, then i guess promotions.

The buff is interesting, as Threatening feels easy now:  i've literally had to check the host didn't drop it to Routine    

Con 27

Cun 12

Will 21

 

As for the "skill" discussion;  well Katari definitely takes more thinking than playing ranged characters (mages, hunter etc), but it's nowhere near the skill for other games.  

I'm playing Helldivers, which is a similar-ish 4-player co-op game, and the difference of skilled and unskilled players (not geared) is remarkable.  there is a lot more to think about moment-to-moment, but also a lot more freedom and player options to achieve things.  While i still enjoy DAMP the amount of skill for Perilous is way less than needed Helldivers on Helldive difficulty.

 

I, for one, welcome our Katari overlords! 

[Drasca]

I've been maining Katari since i tried Iron Bull in SP, and HoK rings were by far the biggest game changer for me.  Then level 20+ weapons: Sundering which i use, Dragon Hunter seem fairly common (still no Sulevin).  Then +200 health belt, then i guess promotions.

The buff is interesting, as Threatening feels easy now:  i've literally had to check the host didn't drop it to Routine   

 

As for the "skill" discussion;  well Katari definitely takes more thinking than playing ranged characters (mages, hunter etc), but it's nowhere near the skill for other games.  

I'm playing Helldivers, which is a similar-ish 4-player co-op game, and the difference of skilled and unskilled players (not geared) is remarkable.  there is a lot more to think about moment-to-moment, but also a lot more freedom and player options to achieve things.  While i still enjoy DAMP the amount of skill for Perilous is way less than needed Helldivers on Helldive difficulty.

 

I, for one, welcome our Katari overlords! 

 

I want to play Helldivers but it is a PS exclusive. The difference between basic proficiency and unskilled Katari players is pretty obvious. One's alive killing stuff, the other's in the fade. The ceiling for mastery however is much higher.

 

As for Helldivers skill required, it is no surprise that a tactical game with friendly fire turned on requires coordination. It wouldn't work here without simplifiying the game and building with that idea from the ground up. Can you imagine DAMP with the FF option? I'd see way too many boot the Ele posts and vote kick. Katari's Grisley mutilation panicking teammates is trolling enough alone.

 

Perilous difficulty just raised with the last update however due to the spawn changes + font. Much more interesting & challenging now. Try Katari on Perilous. The killstreaks are much more fun and attainable. Just watch out for those arrows.

 

Speaking of buffs / fixes for Katari, they fixed Shatter detonate damage for Mighty Blow. I've been seeing upward 5k+ cold damage on mighty blow hits. I have not had the opportunity to test Whirlwind yet. Rupture seems like it works too, but I would like to see other people confirm.

[Kenny Bania]

Can we please move on?

 

No.

[Jbrizzy84]

Oh... but there's also that whole overkill issue, an increase of damage doesn't always mean a decrease in total number of hits required to kill the enemy. If you only need one hit to begin with, in the case of twin fangs, additional attack power won't help. If an enemy has 2000 hp, and you do 1000 damage per hit, any damage increase from 1001 to 1999 won't matter since it'll still require two hits.

Ok.. But you may be building it up to get to that one extra point which brings you over 1999 into OHK zone. Also the hp inbetween matters because it is the difference in which the rest of the party members utilize that. should I auto attack it down Or skill it.. Difference for some party members in it taking one hit or 10 hits. Not everyone gets good gear to warrant that. Also more team dps means faster completion times If they are efficient and competent.

[Drasca]

Ok.. But you may be building it up to get to that one extra point which brings you over 1999 into OHK zone. Also the hp inbetween matters because it is the difference in which the rest of the party members utilize that. should I auto attack it down Or skill it.. Difference for some party members in it taking one hit or 10 hits. Not everyone gets good gear to warrant that. Also more team dps means faster completion times If they are efficient and competent.

 

Most of the time, there isn't enough time to wait and check (who goes for the same target now a days?), and there will be overkill. It is one of the reasons chain lighting effectively adds nothing to killing speed when used as an opener. Going with the above example, let's say CL hits four enemies for 250 each, and you can do two hits for 1k each on an enemies with 2k health. This is all within the span of about 2 seconds. The enemies don't actually die any faster because they would've died regardless due to overkill. Damage is even worse for rogues and necromancers given their passives provide bonuses to undamaged targets.

 

Party members are also on automatic killing, often one shotting or two shotting the enemy. If you cannot, then you must CC & Kite them (or be killed). Team DPS does not directly translate to team killing & clearing speed because of the overkill factor. If you cannot kill the enemy quickly, something is wrong (poor gear, bad coordination, builds, teamwork, etc)

 

It is somewhat ironic that the kits that benefit the most from increased dps are often the lowest dps kits, as the highest dps kits don't benefit as much due to overkill.

[JRandall0308]

The reason to open with Chain Lightning is that it briefly stuns (or electrifies, or whatever) enemies which gives everyone time to close distance on them. The damage is incidental.

 

Of course you might've been better off opening with some other ability, or auto-attack, but there are way to many variables to answer that question in the abstract.

[Jbrizzy84]

Most of the time, there isn't enough time to wait and check (who goes for the same target now a days?), and there will be overkill. It is one of the reasons chain lighting effectively adds nothing to killing speed when used as an opener. Going with the above example, let's say CL hits four enemies for 250 each, and you can do two hits for 1k each on an enemies with 2k health. This is all within the span of about 2 seconds. The enemies don't actually die any faster because they would've died regardless due to overkill. Damage is even worse for rogues and necromancers given their passives provide bonuses to undamaged targets.

Party members are also on automatic killing, often one shotting or two shotting the enemy. If you cannot, then you must CC & Kite them (or be killed). Team DPS does not directly translate to team killing & clearing speed because of the overkill factor. If you cannot kill the enemy quickly, something is wrong (poor gear, bad coordination, builds, teamwork, etc)

It is somewhat ironic that the kits that benefit the most from increased dps are often the lowest dps kits, as the highest dps kits don't benefit as much due to overkill.

I understand what you're saying but if you're pugging, you have to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. If you have a pre composed party then you can build yourself around the other members class to be more effective. But that's a perfect world and very few things in the game are perfect. I play with anyone online so I go for what is most effective in all situations. So promotions do play a big part because once you reach that point on promotions, you can set you're gear differently to compensate for that(ie if i have high cunning, i can swap my crit chance ring for crit dmg or something else)

[Drasca]

The reason to open with Chain Lightning is that it briefly stuns (or electrifies, or whatever) enemies which gives everyone time to close distance on them. The damage is incidental.

 

Of course you might've been better off opening with some other ability, or auto-attack, but there are way to many variables to answer that question in the abstract.

 

'some other ability' like Static Cage. The brief shock is pretty useless without a follow-up ability (Veilstrike is OK for 3 or fewer targets if all targets can be sleeped, but very few Keepers run VS). Persistent AoE CC (Firestorm, Static Cage, Pull of the Abyss, etc) is almost universally the best choice to open with, when you aren't line of sight pulling. If the latter, then one staff hit, and run as there's time to run between the project launch and hit vs instant aggro of CL triggering enemy retaliation and party damage.

 

I understand what you're saying but if you're pugging,

 

If I'm pugging, I'm ready to solo the instance. I've done so before, and I'll do it again. My objective isn't op complete, but to have fun, level my character + gain gold. Operation complete is just a side effect to that end.

 

I play a lot of team builds in private games, and perhaps you should join my 'perfect world' by your definition if you're on PC, or build your own network of friends to do so.

 

However even in pugging situations, if you're joining a game or waiting in lobby, you can still choose complementary kits. See a reaver? Bring an Ele. AW + Templar / Archer / Necro / Katari / Assassin. Etc Only if you're hosting a pug and hitting ready solo, do you completely abstain the ability to choose. Anyone joining can choose their kit before hitting ready.

[Jbrizzy84]

'some other ability' like Static Cage. The brief shock is pretty useless without a follow-up ability (Veilstrike is OK for 3 or fewer targets if all targets can be sleeped, but very few Keepers run VS). Persistent AoE CC (Firestorm, Static Cage, Pull of the Abyss, etc) is almost universally the best choice to open with, when you aren't line of sight pulling. If the latter, then one staff hit, and run as there's time to run between the project launch and hit vs instant aggro of CL triggering enemy retaliation and party damage.


If I'm pugging, I'm ready to solo the instance. I've done so before, and I'll do it again. My objective isn't op complete, but to have fun, level my character + gain gold. Operation complete is just a side effect to that end.

I play a lot of team builds in private games, and perhaps you should join my 'perfect world' by your definition if you're on PC, or build your own network of friends to do so.

However even in pugging situations, if you're joining a game or waiting in lobby, you can still choose complementary kits. See a reaver? Bring an Ele. AW + Templar / Archer / Necro / Katari / Assassin. Etc Only if you're hosting a pug and hitting ready solo, do you completely abstain the ability to choose. Anyone joining can choose their kit before hitting ready.

Unfortunately I'm on xbone or I'd take you up on that. I do switch characters situationally to benefit more team survivability. I have friends i play with online as well, but my work hours arent consistent.. Im worked hard and under played

So I end up making it to the party too late (full by then) so I just do my own thing mostly. I build myself the same as you though, with the intention of possibly soloing it at any given point.