34 réponses à ce sujet

[Julmor]

Since metagaming seems to be thrown around alot on this forum (usually in a "bad" context), im starting to wonder just how "much" metagaming is appropriate.

To me, i mostly use it when i feel that the decisiins tends to be overly misleading.
The prime example for this is the bhelen-harrowmont decision in origins. Before you actually team up with bhelen or harrowmont you pretty much have no clue what theyre vision for orzammars future looks like.

All you get to know before that is that bhelen is a violent thug who most likely killed his brothers to get the crown, while harrowmont is an "honorable" man who only wants to honor his kings last wishes.
The choice (based on that information) prolly isnt very hard to most people. If bhelen had been depicted more an progressive pragmatist and harrowmont a narrowminded traditionalist, the choice would prolly have been alot harder to make.

The point where i draw the line is when the decision is out if character for my character. I did try an alternate playthough of inquisition where loghain was still alive. The whole warden storyline become so much more entertaining with loghain instead of stroud/alistair, that i started to consider to change my main playthrough just to keep loghain alive. But to do that i had to either sacrifice my own warden or do the dark ritual. As tempting as it was i just couldnt do it from a character perspective.

[Draining Dragon]

*meatgame

[robertmarilyn]

I'm a massive metagamer. I've never played an elf but if I did, I'd make sure I didn't get my clan slaughtered. I make sure I don't wipe out the wardens or kill Sutherland and Co. I like knowing the outcome of choices before I play the game so I can make sure things happen the way I want them to happen. 

[Elhanan]

Often use walkthroughs to solve puzzles; not a fan of them or mini-games, so I avoid frustration and get past them quickly. But I guess age has allowed me to be surprised at RP'ing a game rather than simply choosing the best results. For instance, Aveline broke my heart in DA2; did not see that coming, and it remains a highlight of gaming even if I can only experience that a single time.

[Qun00]

I do metagaming for major plot points like the Divine election and the Celene vs Gaspard business.

For everything else, I just keep it completely in character.

[Panda]

I metagame a lot. It would be hard to not metagame at all since player will always have more information than character you are playing.. especially if you have been spoiled at a lot ^^

[Raiil]

In Inquisition?

 

Actually, the only thing I metagame are the war table missions. Everything else is in IC. Which may be a first. Maybe it's because it's really difficult to screw up Cullen's romance.

[congokong]

Decision-wise I meta-game little. Sometimes I'll meta-game what to do in what order so the story flows better though. I also meta-game who to bring where for their banter and such. But my canon playthrough is a redo of my first which lacked meta-gaming. The only change I made was keeping the Grey Wardens rather than exiling them. When I exiled them I didn't fully understand the situation.

 

I don't like meta-gaming my way out of bad situations though. Ex: When Sera kills Harmond I could have used the nobility perk before the third investigation question but didn't because my character wouldn't. Sera killing him was more interesting anyway.

[Armdin]

I RP my characters, but first PTs are usually self-inserts so I always go in blind. Subsequent PTs I metagame heavily, and not always to my own benefit. First DAI PT I saved my clan (I wasn't even aware they could be wiped out until someone mentioned it on a thread here), but most future PTs I've wiped them out, for the drama and character progression.

 

Then there's my Disaster Mage PTs, where I intentionally make them screw up for the perspective. Nothing against Mages, just they're the classes I usually use for Nightmare PTs, and since it's less painful to do them as quickly as possible I don't bother with side quests/areas unless I need them for exp to bump me over a block. I might as well go all the way and bugger them over completely. x)

[Arlee]

Metagame as much or as little as you want to. Others might you for it but it doesn't matter. They are your playthroughs do what makes you happy

[Cz-99]

I rarely do it. If I mess up I mess up. The only time I recall doing it recently - in Inquisition particularly, is during the Well of Sorrows quest. Couldn't decide whether or not to drink, so I had to envoke the Google gods to help me choose.

[KaiserShep]

I primarily metagame through the arrangement of quests, so that I can do things in an order I feel best fits the narrative, or finding certain things to get a certain outcome. Like, for example, using the halla statuettes in the Winter Palace. Since it's impossible to open the doors, I'll pick the ones I think make for the most interesting story, and it'll still seem random.

 

With the Bhelen/Harrowmont decision, I didn't really have to metagame through this. If you're diligent and curious, you can pretty much determine, even as a human outsider, that Bhelen is basically resorting to very crooked practices to get what he wants. If you go to the Shaperate, you can determine that the documents his Vartag Gavorn gives you to prove that Harrowmont is swindling people out of a land deal to gain their favor are forgeries, and you can choose to go along with it. Heck if you decide to play both sides, you can even find proof that Bhelen was guilty of killing his own flesh and blood (during the Jarvia quest). But, you can also gather which candidate is most likely to be in favor of helping the casteless by listening to the criers in the Diamond Quarter and talking to a couple of nobles, so you can decide whether or not the crooked method is worth breaking through the dwarves' caste system (I did, so Bhelen "won", because **** dwarven culture).

 

Ultimately though, the way I see it, it's all about setting the narrative you like the most. If that requires more metagaming to get it, then so be it.

[Rekkampum]

When I hear "metagaming" thrown around in a negative context, it's often in attempts to force one's interpretation of a character or events onto others as though it's canon, or when the person accused is literally contradicting numerous established aspects of lore in an almost bad fan-fic way. I think it overall is harmless in and of itself. Certain events are restrained and unfortunately left unclear in narratives, so interpolation often is necessary. Of course, once you've played through the game once, you'll technically be de facto metagaming because you'd still be aware of the events taking place and would probably tailor your character to them regardless. I think that as long as the choices being "metagamed" are consistent with the character they're establishing in their roleplay, it's a moot point.

[Forsythia77]

Decision-wise I meta-game little. Sometimes I'll meta-game what to do in what order so the story flows better though. I also meta-game who to bring where for their banter and such. But my canon playthrough is a redo of my first which lacked meta-gaming. The only change I made was keeping the Grey Wardens rather than exiling them. When I exiled them I didn't fully understand the situation.

 

I don't like meta-gaming my way out of bad situations though. Ex: When Sera kills Harmond I could have used the nobility perk before the third investigation question but didn't because my character wouldn't. Sera killing him was more interesting anyway.

I totally meta-game for team banter too.  Nothing is worse than bringing Blackwall and Dorian and hearing them bicker like children - Don't make me come back there and separate you two!  Even if it makes sense to bring them both because a mission for both of them is on the way.

 

I think realistically, only my first play through of any RPG is meta-game free. Because after that I know more. in subsequent play throughs, there is more and more meta-gaming as my brain starts working on various permutations of my decisions.

[congokong]

I totally meta-game for team banter too.  Nothing is worse than bringing Blackwall and Dorian and hearing them bicker like children - Don't make me come back there and separate you two!  Even if it makes sense to bring them both because a mission for both of them is on the way.

 

I think realistically, only my first play through of any RPG is meta-game free. Because after that I know more. in subsequent play throughs, there is more and more meta-gaming as my brain starts working on various permutations of my decisions.

I also think you need a little meta-gaming regarding the pc's dialogue. Unlike DA:O, you don't actually know what your character will say until you click on it. The three options given are rather poor summations. I can't count the number of times I reloaded because I picked an option that sounded appropriate only to think, "WTF?! My character wouldn't say that."

[Qun00]

I also think you need a little meta-gaming regarding the pc's dialogue. Unlike DA:O, you don't actually know what your character will say until you click on it. The three options given are rather poor summations. I can't count the number of times I reloaded because I picked an option that sounded appropriate only to think, "WTF?! My character wouldn't say that."

This, this so much.

The preview for each dialogue option is pretty vague and sometimes misleading.

[Khione]

I used to just associate metagaming with RP and it had a bad connotation there, but I suppose that isn't always the case. I definitely do it because I'm a completionist and a perfectionist in one and would really hate to miss something I could've easily gotten. Usually try to hold off my first gameplay unless I really need help.

 

Mainly for choices I feel would bite me later on in-game (Like the Connor or Isolde decision in Origins) or for storyline quests but that's usually just so I have a heads up for boss battles/items/characters, yatta yatta. Also for War Table missions because, as someone mentioned before, I genocide'd my entire clan by mistake my first playthrough and vow never to let that happen again, unless for character development purposes.

 

And I actually really like the paraphrased dialogue choices, they usually work with what I imagined. That or I really don't care since I try to choose the sarcastic option most of the time. Perhaps I should pay better attention---

[Forsythia77]

I also think you need a little meta-gaming regarding the pc's dialogue. Unlike DA:O, you don't actually know what your character will say until you click on it. The three options given are rather poor summations. I can't count the number of times I reloaded because I picked an option that sounded appropriate only to think, "WTF?! My character wouldn't say that."

 

I never did a reload for a dialogue choice, but man, some of them made me do a double take.  There was one choice specifically where I was talking to Viv at Skyhold immediately after getting there and the choice on the screen was something like "this was a win" and the way she said it to Viv was all "No, you're wrong" when that was not the tone I was trying for or expectation of the choice at all. I let it go, (this was my first play through) but after that I noted it mentally....

[phaonica]

I try not to metagame. I almost never have a specific story that I want to build that I have preplanned. I don't play for a perfect outcome. I like to create a personality with both positive and negative attributes and just see how the game plays out for that character.

[phaonica]

Out of curiosity, those of you who strongly metagame, what does it mean for you to have your "choices matter"? If you play the game just so in order to get your favorite results, then it seems like the only risk any given decision holds is whether or not you're going to have to reload a save or play the game again to get a different outcome. Is that sufficient criteria for choices mattering--that the results of a choice are negative enough that you are compelled to try again? Or does the story have to play out significantly different depending on the decision made in order for you to feel like your choices matter?

[happy_daiz]

I totally meta-game for team banter too.  Nothing is worse than bringing Blackwall and Dorian and hearing them bicker like children - Don't make me come back there and separate you two!  Even if it makes sense to bring them both because a mission for both of them is on the way.

 

I think realistically, only my first play through of any RPG is meta-game free. Because after that I know more. in subsequent play throughs, there is more and more meta-gaming as my brain starts working on various permutations of my decisions.

 

Me too. And why not? If I know about something, from having done it before, I'm not going to just forget about it the next time around.

 

Then again, I've never really been much of a "rp" person. Sure, I come up with a bit of an explanation for my character, but it's more like an idea of what they are. It's not a fully fleshed-out thesis as I've seen some others do. At most, probably a sentence.

[Arlee]

Out of curiosity, those of you who strongly metagame, what does it mean for you to have your "choices matter"? If you play the game just so in order to get your favorite results, then it seems like the only risk any given decision holds is whether or not you're going to have to reload a save or play the game again to get a different outcome. Is that sufficient criteria for choices mattering--that the results of a choice are negative enough that you are compelled to try again? Or does the story have to play out significantly different depending on the decision made in order for you to feel like your choices matter?

 

The choices matter because they give the World State I want. Like I am working on my sixth pt right now and I am pretty sure it will be my "cannon" one because I have tried most of the options and I know how I want everything to go now. I don't really know how to explain it other than that. It's just a different state of mind is all.

[Julmor]

The decisions ive changed in Inquisition since my first playthrough is basically letting stroud die and allying with mages.

In the case of stroud, i let him die ONLY because hawke was my old pc. From a practical view, i rather have a senior warden to lead my conscripted wardens, instead of hawke who basically has no reason to live (killed his boyfriend and lost most of his family).

In the case of the mage alliance, i mostly just felt sorry about the mages becoming slaves to tevinter. I just assumed that Fiona would lose her status among the mage rebels afterwards (seriously, she should be judged at skyhold). It was a dumb assumption on my part. Since then i go with templar instead. Its a much safer route politically anyway.

And i agree with other posters here. I like having some bad consequences in my rpg games. Thats why i like the witcher series. Theres literally no "good" route in those games. Whatever you chose its gonna have some form of terrible consequences.

[Julmor]

I also sort of like that theres less "perfect" choices in inquisition than in origins.
In origins you could pretty much solve every major conflict (except orzammars bhelen-harrowmont debacle) without killing any of the involved parties or getting any bad consequences.

[congokong]

I never did a reload for a dialogue choice, but man, some of them made me do a double take.  There was one choice specifically where I was talking to Viv at Skyhold immediately after getting there and the choice on the screen was something like "this was a win" and the way she said it to Viv was all "No, you're wrong" when that was not the tone I was trying for or expectation of the choice at all. I let it go, (this was my first play through) but after that I noted it mentally....

One of my favorites is the history perk's "Think of the Warden's legacy!" when confronting Clarel in Here Lies the Abyss. Without Blackwall, it was either that or attacking yet my character would never have said "This world owes you a debt it will never be able to repay" and so I instead said "You leave me no choice. Attack!" Everyone disapproved. lol  I noted how "You leave me no choice" was one of those voice examples in the character creation menu.