173 réponses à ce sujet

[Voodoo Dancer]

I felt like I was playing as Hawke in ME3 , I did everything right but it all still came back to bite me in the arse .

[Iakus]

I felt like I was playing as Hawke in ME3 , I did everything right but it all still came back to bite me in the arse .

Bah, Shepard made Hawke look good by the end of ME3

[AlanC9]

What would you change (without making the games radically different)?

Minimal changes, eh? Sounds fun. I'll play.

A few things in ME1 bother me:

-- Tali's voice recording doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense. It's not clear why the geth would disseminate voice recordings in this fashion in the first place, and the timing is all wrong. Change it to a voice message from Saren to Benezia, talking about the Eden Prime attack as something they're planning for the future. The geth Tali disabled was acting as a courier. Also delete the reference to the Reapers; no reason to make the Council be that stupid.

-- Remove the gas grenades on Feros. The P/R choice there doesn't really work since the grenades make it just as efficient to gas the colonists as it would be to gun them down; on higher difficulty levels the grenades actually work better than shooting.

-- Restructure Peak 15 a bit. As it stands Ventralis and Iallis can end up working at cross-purposes even though both of them are working for Benezia. I can think of several ways to accomplish this, such as Ventralis not being committed to Benezia enough to do something crazy like shoot at a Spectre.

-- Include some log files on Virmire which make clear that Saren had no idea what the Conduit was until after he used the beacons. The ME1 plot makes no sense if he knew what the Conduit was, since the Conduit gives him something he already had until he tried to find the Conduit. If Saren didn't know what the Conduit was, this just becomes straight-up irony.

-- This might be a bit too big, but how about removing the distinction between missions and assignments? Let the player sort it out. Probably this would work best if more mission hooks were moved to the Citadel. Cruising into random systems to see what's there doesn't really work well with the ME1 plot.

-- Permit play after Sovereign's defeat the same way that ME2 does.


ME2:

-- restructure space travel so shuttles are always seen to dock with larger craft for interstellar travel. (Also a problem in ME3)

-- Change Shepard's initial mission objectives so he's initially trying to bring back incontrovertible proof of the Collector-Reaper connection, and of the Reapers' existence. It's not really clear what Shepard's trying to do before we know that the Collectors all live on one space station.

-- Change mission timing so Reaper IFF is forced immediately after it becomes available. This means that there will be an actual tradeoff involved if you want to complete all LMs.

-- Remove the Human-Reaper fight and the Collector Base choice. (Perhaps have Shepard always blow the thing up because he's sure that studying it will lead to Indoctrination.) As written, Shepard's argument for blowing up the base is idiotic, and I don't see a way to make the choice matter enough --the various SM outcomes provide enough C&C for the game as it is.

-- Less talking Harbinger, and no shooting him. This sort of thing leads to Villain Decay.


ME3:

-- Put the Crucible plans somewhere other than Mars, in a previously undiscovered archive. Probably be best to foreshadow this earlier --maybe Liara found the location in the Shadow Broker's data?

-- reduce Cerberus' military strength a bit. They don't really need to have cruisers; for instance, the problem at Grissom Academy could be that if Normandy simply takes out their freighter, the fanatics on the Academy will just blow it up. (The whole Omega business would need a rewrite.)

-- remove a lot of the focus on Earth. I'm not sure we should ever go back there. (It's OK for Shepard to be concerned about the fate of the place since 95+% of the human race still lives there, though.) Maybe the endgame should be an outright rerun of ME1's after all.

-- I'm a little torn about Rannoch. On the one hand I see David Gaider's case that peace shouldn't have been possible there, but on the other hand peace there does foreshadow Synthesis a bit. If peace is still in, Shepard should be permitted to mention this to the Catalyst -- who, of course, will blithely dismiss this as being of no long-term significance.

-- in general, a bit less bluster from Shepard.

-- some applied phlebotinum here and there. For instance, a final message from the Citadel saying that they've blown up what they believe to be the Relay network control interface, so until the Reapers repair it they won't be able to shut down the network. Stuff like that.

-- dump the dream sequences. This sort of heavy-handed symbolism hasn't been seen in much in Western cinema since talkies came in, and I don't think it's a useful strategy.

-- Synthesis should be about the nature of consciousness itself, not about the physical nature of creatures. Basically a higher grade of mumbo-jumbo -- something like what the Hyperion Cantos pulled off.

[ImaginaryMatter]

This sounds fun.

 

ME1

 

I would switch up the rewards for the end of the main missions. Instead of the Rachni queen knowing the location of the Mu Relay it would be accessed from a still working Prothean terminal on Feros. Liara's role would merge with that of the Cypher as she has Prothean knowledge and other mind meld, Asari stuff (make Liara a little more Indiana Jones, less naive maiden). Everything would end up in the same in the end, this just might avoid a few extra bumps on the way there.

 

Clean up the fridge logic issues with Eden Prime, Saren, and the Conduit. The biggest change would probably come with the investigation sequence. Maybe make the data something more future-y and less continuity breaking than voice files, make Anderson and Udina more diplomatic and less irrational, etc.

 

Give Benezia more of an arc.

 

Make Liara's recruitment mission more interesting. Probably like that cut stuff with the miners.

 

Big change: merge the assignments into the main investigate Seran plot. Those Geth incursion missions could be investigating Geth that involve Saren. Tracking down the Rachni could be part of Shepard's promise to the queen. Drop the planetary fetch and gather quests, and Shepard helping space gangsters. Keep stuff with the machine cultists while integrating them more with the Dragon's Teeth. Perhaps that way when Hackett asks you to diffuse a bomb it seems more urgent and less of a checklist on a lonnngggg to do list.

 

ME2

 

Small changes only? Um....

 

...

 

ME3

 

Make Cerberus more covert and replace most of their encounters with other Indoctrinated forces.

 

Make the Rannoch and Tuchunka arcs a little less one sided.

 

Replace the Catalyst with some sort of Prothean interface, add Harbinger or some sort of gestalt intelligence to represent the Reapers, and reveal TIM to actually be in control of his wits. Have each represent an ending solution and structure the end to have more argument and interactivity.

 

Drop the DLC related stuff.

[themikefest]

changes

 

ME1

 

let the council decide the fate of the rachni Queen

leave the decision up to Hackett to save the destiny ascension or not

Udina will always be the human councilor

 

ME2

 

only 8 squadmates

Cerberus recovers Shepard's body

have Ashley/Kaidan join Shepard for Arrival dlc

 

ME3

 

switch Thessia and the coup missions

if a playthrough  can be done with edi, James and Liara and they not die till the end, have it where James and Liara can die with high ems if any other 2 squadmates are on the squad

remove the goodbyes in London to having them on the Normandy before getting to Earth

show Anderson helping Shepard shoot the husks and Mirauder and then follows Shepard up the beam

[Switish]

While I wouldn't want to change anything the games did, there are a couple issues that worried me as the trilogy went on and for the future of the franchise:

Shooter development: I love the first mass effect game, it had the feel of Kotor that I had grown fond of with the exception that it was its own title; Mass effect felt very fresh and explorable with many possibilities for the future. I found it was very RPG orientated, not as much as it could have been, but still enough to feel extremely invested in it. When ME2 was released I started to realise the game was moving from a solely role play experience, while I didn't have an issue with the outcome I knew that they were attempting to reach out to a broader audience. What I think happens when a company attempts to change or add to their customer base is that they sacrifice elements that made the first base loyal, resulting in generally unwanted content that causes players 'unhappiness'. I admit that the combat in ME was atrocious but we have seen what the conclusion was in the final installment; shooter focus with sacrificed story elements. Bioware is renowned for their story telling, they don't make shooters. It was a attempt to bring in more bang for buck without thought for their long term customers.

Backlash of ME3: I'm not going to mention much on that subject since it's been beaten over and over again. However while the developers of ME have always been open to feedback they have not been so good with negative reviews. Granted the forums at the time were awful with hateful comments but the way it was handled perhaps wasn't the best outcome. I give props to them for making the extended cut though.

ME2 squad mates in ME3: It just felt shoehorned in. Like it was an afterthought that was a burden to implement. Granted there were a lot of members in ME2, yet many of them hardly have a place in ME3 with the exception of Miranda and perhaps Legion. And I felt that the romanced squad mates had even worse of a time with hardly any development at all.

[AlanC9]

if a playthrough  can be done with edi, James and Liara and they not die till the end, have it where James and Liara can die with high ems if any other 2 squadmates are on the squad

With high EMS? Why?

[themikefest]

With high EMS? Why?

 Why only low ems? 

[AlanC9]

When ME2 was released I started to realise the game was moving from a solely role play experience, while I didn't have an issue with the outcome I knew that they were attempting to reach out to a broader audience. What I think happens when a company attempts to change or add to their customer base is that they sacrifice elements that made the first base loyal, resulting in generally unwanted content that causes players 'unhappiness'. I admit that the combat in ME was atrocious but we have seen what the conclusion was in the final installment; shooter focus with sacrificed story elements. Bioware is renowned for their story telling, they don't make shooters. It was a attempt to bring in more bang for buck without thought for their long term customers.

I'm not quite clear what your problem is here. You're not saying that Bio should have stuck with the "atrocious" combat, right?

ME2 squad mates in ME3: It just felt shoehorned in. Like it was an afterthought that was a burden to implement. Granted there were a lot of members in ME2, yet many of them hardly have a place in ME3 with the exception of Miranda and perhaps Legion. And I felt that the romanced squad mates had even worse of a time with hardly any development at all.

Well, that's the thing. This really is a burden. The more lines you give people who might or might not be dead, the more lines you have to duplicate.

[AlanC9]

Why only low ems?

Low EMS is a penalty for not accumulating more EMS, which is an in-character goal for Shepard. It treats all squadmates equally.

Your turn.

[Switish]

I'm not quite clear what your problem is here. You're not saying that Bio should have stuck with the "atrocious" combat, right?


Well, that's the thing. This really is a burden. The more lines you give people who might or might not be dead, the more lines you have to duplicate.

What I'm saying that combat became a focus point for the development team. While this is good in some terms, it started to turn into a shooter with RPG elements rather then an RPG with shooter elements. I dont really remember any adverts about the RPG aspects of the game when they showcased the development, I only remember seeing combat simulators of 'how advanced' the fighting was going to be. Then again that could be my selective memory.

 

As for the squad mates I cant really say anything except they should have though that through when making 13 (14 if you include Morinth, since she has her own script even when removing Samara) characters in ME2. They knew that people were invested in those characters hence the turn out of disappointment when ME3 released concerning those characters.

[themikefest]

Low EMS is a penalty for not accumulating more EMS, which is an in-character goal for Shepard. It treats all squadmates equally.

Your turn.

What makes James and Liara important not do die at high ems?

 

Back at ya

[Reorte]

ME3 has many weak points but this isn't one of them

I liked that Shepard (in ME3) and Hawke in DA2 struggled more and lost sometimes

 

Especially after playing Inquisition where he/she ALWAYS wins and everyone kisses the Inquisitors ass from the beginning

I would rather have a more relatable protagonist 

Ideally I'd like "always winning, everyone loves you" to be possible, but only about as possible as it would be in reality. In short a game where to be treated as unbelievably good you have to be unbelievably good. I can't really see how it would be possible beyond the shooty stuff though, it would probably require a real AI to simulate enough convincingly enough.

[Riven326]

Overall? Yes. I can nitpick all day, but it is still satisfying for me to play through them all. People are also quick to forget just how ambitious Mass Effect was.

[Valmar]

To answer the title, yes, I'm overall satisfied. I have my nitpicks and certainly there are things I wish they handled differently... but honestly that can be applied to just about EVERYTHING ever created. Few things are ever truly "perfect" to everyone. Someone always has a vision of how it "should" have been. Overall, I'm satisfied.

 

As for what 'little things' I would change... I'll be shorter than usual since this is the millionth thread asking that same question.

 

Remove the catalyst. Done.

 

Not small enough? Fair enough. Remove the "the citadel is a my home, it as a part of me" line and make the catalyst take the shape of a reaper, not a human child. There, that's very small and wouldn't dramatically change anything or call for weeks worth of restructuring on Bioware's part. By all accounts it should be relatively easy to achieve.

 

Add some slideshow stills of showing Shepard in hospital at the end of a high ems destroy ending and a still of him/her reuniting with the surviving squad and love interest. Another small thing. 

 

Remove ravager's from the game if you destroy the rachni in the first game. Replace them with a couple brutes or something. Small thing.

 

Let you call up your LI to relax in the cabin with you whenever you want like post-suicide mission ME2. Small thing.

 

Have romanced Tali place the rock from Rannoch in the cabin. It's symbolic. A daww moment. Small thing.

 

Remove Kai Leng's ninja sword give him an actual weapon. Also make his boss battles a real challenge that feels like you failed to beat him rather than just "the plot demands I lose even though he's a complete joke." Not such a small thing but I don't think it'd be that dramatic to change either.

 

 

There's nothing else I can really suggest or do differently that falls into the line of minor changes. If I stretch the use of "small change" what about having Liara's "I found a weapon in the prothean archives on mars" to start near the end of ME2 rather than the start of ME3. It wouldn't necessarily change the story, just introduce it sooner.

 

Another stretch is to ask for unified combat and graphics engine... though this is in no way a "small" thing. Still, the actual story doesn't have to change for this. It'd be great if Shepard at least looked the same in all three games. The lightening engine in particular seems to be especially different in ME3 and makes all my Shepard's look like completely different people this time around. The combat system of the first game is also drastically different from ME3's, I'd like it if we saw those controls and mechanics ported back to be in the first two games aswell. Currently the trilogy doesn't really play like a trilogy, imo, since they feel like different games.

[justafan]

I'm more satisfied then I was a few years ago now that I've replayed the whole trilogy a few times.  ME1 and 2 are darn near perfect for me when you take into account when they were made and with what goal they had in mind, and ME3 is a pretty good game as well.

 

As for changes

 

ME1:  I'm so nostalgic for this game already that I really wouldn't want anything to change.  The clunky combat was part of the charm, as were the endless Mako missions.  The story was also arguably the best in the series.  However, I would say that the cover mechanic never felt quite right, so that's my change.

 

ME2:  Every squadmate should have been recruitable from the beginning as originally intended.  Nothing else really to add.  Now that the trilogy is complete, we can say with hindsight that the crucible should have been foreshadowed, but at the time the story felt right, and it is still the easiest and most fun game for me to go back and replay.

 

ME3:  I'm not going to start a Lazarus Project just so I can beat the dead horse that is the ending to death again.  Also my opinions on Cerberus and the Geth/Quarian missions would probably require more than minor changes.  On that subject though, I will say that I think that Legion and Tali should have simply swapped reactions to Shepard's genocide of their race.  Also, I agree that Harbinger should have been an actual presence rather than what might as well have been a cameo in the last 5 minutes.

[AlanC9]

What makes James and Liara important not do die at high ems?

 

Back at ya

 

 

Why should they be treated differently from other characters at high EMS?

[AlanC9]

What I'm saying that combat became a focus point for the development team. While this is good in some terms, it started to turn into a shooter with RPG elements rather then an RPG with shooter elements. I dont really remember any adverts about the RPG aspects of the game when they showcased the development, I only remember seeing combat simulators of 'how advanced' the fighting was going to be. Then again that could be my selective memory.

Can't help you there. I don't typically pay much attention to Bio marketing because I figure I'll buy the games anyway, unless someone here whose opinion I actually respect and whose tastes match mine tells me to stay away. Just as well. I would have been really disappointed in ME1 if I'd seen the Distress Call trailer before playing it.

As for the squad mates I cant really say anything except they should have though that through when making 13 (14 if you include Morinth, since she has her own script even when removing Samara) characters in ME2. They knew that people were invested in those characters hence the turn out of disappointment when ME3 released concerning those characters.

Agreed. Didn't one of the devs say something along these lines? That when they were looking into ME3 they suddenly realized what a huge problem they'd made for themselves?

[themikefest]

Why should they be treated differently from other characters at high EMS?

Them dying at high ems is not treating them any different from other squadmates that can die at high ems

[Voodoo Dancer]

okay , small things that would radically change the feel of the last game for me ,  The dreams have got to go , the game is gloomy enough already , shepard doesn't need them to see the writing on the wall , and the player sure as hell doesn't need them .  To see Anderson running alongside Shepard toward the beam .  Holographic starchild has to be replaced by a holographic Harbinger. And Javik gets to stay with Shepard all the way to the end , he's the one who deserves the final chance to destroy the Reapers , he was reborn after 50,000 years for this very moment , there is no way he would stay on the Normandy and let Shepard go on alone .

[Valmar]

what "big" things would you change?
 

In my post I wasn't really restricting the question to small things (hence my own list for improvements) 

 

 

It kinda does though, doesn't it? I mean any big change is bound to change the story. If it doesn't then it wasn't that big of a change. It's subjective, I suppose. The "big" things I would change would have resulted in a different overall story. Many of the story arcs they went with would either be gone or changed to such a degree that they only hold a vague semblance to the original vision. It certainly is unlikely to be to the tastes of anyone other than myself.

 

Though its funny I say that, since even if they went with what I would have done I probably wouldn't be any happier. The ME2 squad was my favorite in the trilogy and had they went with a direction I would have went with it they wouldn't even be part of it. We'd never have that experience. We wouldn't even have Cerberus or the Illusive Man - who, personally, is one of my favorite video game characters.

 

Just because I would have done something differently doesn't mean I cannot and do not appreciate or like what they gave us. As I said, I'm satisfied with the trilogy overall. I enjoyed the experience Bioware delivered.

 

You asked what I would change without making it radically different. I listed what I would do that fits into that criteria from my perspective. Anything else that I would have changed wouldn't hold true to that.

 

 

As for your post, well, I'd argue that many of the "improvements" you list go against the stated goal of not changing the story drastically.

 

Somewhat unrelated to the topic but just to touch on something you mentioned... People complain Cerberus went crazy in ME3 and is no longer the same shadowy group they were in ME2 yet not mention how Cerberus in ME2 are just as different from ME1 as they are are in ME3. Cerberus has never been a consistent element of Mass Effect's story. The writer's constantly change them on a whim to make them fit whatever role they want them to.

 

Generally speaking I don't like singling out any game as having a specific flaw if that same flaw can be found in other games in the same series. Cerberus was handled poorly in the story of the trilogy, yes, but I wouldn't specifically single out ME3 as the culprit. ME3 too often serves as a scapegoat, imo. Hell, even the "red, blue, green" color endings is something the trilogy has been doing from the start. It was more subtle in ME1, ME2 stepped it up a level  and made it more dramatic (with more than just the ending, too), ME3 is just like ME2 except with an extra color added. Yet it's always the one singled out for the colored endings.

[AlanC9]

Them dying at high ems is not treating them any different from other squadmates that can die at high ems

I guess I'm not quite sure what the proposal actually is. Who dies, when do they die, and why do they die? Why as a matter of game design, I mean, since we can always come up with an in-universe rationale later