58 réponses à ce sujet

[Swan Killer]

Well, everybody believed it was a Prothean-construct, as were the Mass Relays and the Protheans were the good guys, so I guess that was a satisfactory answer for people, enough to not to raise concerns about it.

[ZerebusPrime]

Careful, OP.  If you start putting the pieces together to find a plot behind the surface narrative, you risk turning into one of us.  Prettz did make some really good videos, though!

 

BioWare has never confirmed the Indoctrination Theory/Thesis.  That is true.  To say that that lack of confirmation is denying its validity, however, isn't accurate.  It can be confirmed at any point in the next Mass Effect game or even the one after that.  Or never.  It's a lot like arguing that Deckard in the movie Blade Runner is a Replicant using footage from the film as your evidence.  There was no confirmation until the director finally came out and confirmed it years after the film's release and until that point anyone arguing in favor of it risked being labeled a sci fi fringe looney.

 

That said, the core "IT" people have analyzed every DLC and found indoctrination elements in each and every single one of them.  Yes, even Omega.  That analysis took time, however, so whenever a DLC was released without an obvious IT narrative there was a chorus of people claiming that that DLC proved IT false.  It's a lot easier and faster to say "IT is wrong!" than it is to tear apart the visuals and narrative to find the clues.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Oh, and do I believe that Reaper tech in the Normandy is indoctrinating people?  Not really, no.  The Normandy analysis was a dead end IIRC.  James has tinnitus.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Actually as a meniere's disease sufferer, exercise is beneficial for tinnitus. IT has neither been confirmed nor denied officially.

[ZerebusPrime]

I can speculate all day about what James is hearing but it won't prove anything.  It could be that James is experiencing the earliest stages of Reaper exposure.  Or it could be that the Reaper horns on Earth damaged his ear drums.  Or the shuttle crash on Mars.

 

Or it's the Normandy itself.  Who knows what Cerberus put into that thing?

[Han Shot First]

 

That said, the core "IT" people have analyzed every DLC and found indoctrination elements in each and every single one of them.  Yes, even Omega.  That analysis took time, however, so whenever a DLC was released without an obvious IT narrative there was a chorus of people claiming that that DLC proved IT false.  It's a lot easier and faster to say "IT is wrong!" than it is to tear apart the visuals and narrative to find the clues.

 

 

Or maybe the people who found all this supposed evidence for IT, were just letting their imaginations run wild and seeing things that just weren't there. 

[God]

 I still would not move into the Citadel until it has a thorugh  inspection. When seeing those bugs, I would want to know where they come from. What is thier purpose? Who was the previous owner? What happened to the previous owner? Why is the station vacant except for the bugs?

 

As I said, a thorough inspection is not a catch all. For all we know, there was a thorough inspection when the Citadel was first occupied. But it's a lot harder to find something (like, say, the true nature of the Citadel and what it is) if you aren't looking for it. Even more so when you don't know what it is, nor would you likely find that nature to be credible.

 

The Keepers are manufactured by the Citadel. Their purpose is to maintain and repair the Citadel through the eons. The previous owners (to the galactic species) were the Protheans. We don't know what happened to the previous owners, only that they left their greatest technological achievement behind. We'd assume the station is vacant because of whatever caused the Protheans to disappear.

 

The questions are fairly easily answered with mundane explanations.

[ZerebusPrime]

Or maybe the people who found all this supposed evidence for IT, were just letting their imaginations run wild and seeing things that just weren't there. 

 

There are definitely those who do that.  At this point I can only hope I am not among them.

[themikefest]

As I said, a thorough inspection is not a catch all. For all we know, there was a thorough inspection when the Citadel was first occupied.

And for all we know they never did a complete inspection
 

But it's a lot harder to find something (like, say, the true nature of the Citadel and what it is) if you aren't looking for it. Even more so when you don't know what it is, nor would you likely find that nature to be credible.

If something is found that I don't understand or seems out of place, I would get experts to see if they can explain what it is that was found and if I have to be worried
 

The Keepers are manufactured by the Citadel. Their purpose is to maintain and repair the Citadel through the eons.

Did you know that when you first discovered the Citadel? I would like to know how and where they get the resources to keep the station maintained. How are they able to maintain their numbers? Until I can have answers about them, I would not let anyone occupy the Citadel.


 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

In some ways the EC made things worse:

 

* Harbinger not firing on the Normandy. WTF? Don't give me that Harbinger's attention was focused on the beam. Harbinger was a machine. Couldn't it multi-task? It had five weapons it could have used.

 

* "Serve Us" while Shepard is making that final run just before being blasted.

 

* Just because you could challenge the kid doesn't change anything.

 

* And the slide show afterward showing the aftermath with the "explanations" of what happened, and suddenly everything looked perfect like no war had ever taken place.

 

And the troll ending of refusal. But we know it's not IT. I'm trolling. The fact of the matter is that it is BWT.

[MrFob]

* "Serve Us" while Shepard is making that final run just before being blasted.

 

I think that Harbinger is actually from Bavaria and he uses the Bavarian greeting "Servus" before he blasts Shep straight to hell.

[God]

And for all we know they never did a complete inspection

 

 

This is a contrarian statement. Indeed the possibility exists, but is it a credible one? You can't just assume otherwise because you want to. Create a valid argument for it and I'll take this statement, and the intent behind it seriously.

 

If something is found that I don't understand or seems out of place, I would get experts to see if they can explain what it is that was found and if I have to be worried

 

 

It's xenotechnology. There's going to be a lot of things that you won't understand and seem out of place. And experts won't be of much help either, especially if you are the person who discovered it. I don't think you understand the concept of xenotechnology. This is stuff that is advanced enough that you can't begin to discern its true purpose. You can send in as many experts as you like, and they will likely never understand the station entirely, for a variety of factors. Sans dismantling the station entirely (and likely being unable to put it back together... and probably unable to take it apart in the first place without heavy firepower), you have little ability to understand the internal mechanics and engine of the Citadel. You're not going to find anything if you aren't looking for it, and don't know how to access it. All you know is that you have some control over the systems, such as atmospheric pressure and opening and closing of the arms. With those in mind, you know that the Citadel is obviously meant to be lived on, and that the arms are likely for protection.

 

Wanting to figure it out isn't going to change the advanced and foreign nature of the Citadel. It's simply too inaccessible. Your premise is also becoming increasingly outlandish and incredible.

 

Did you know that when you first discovered the Citadel? I would like to know how and where they get the resources to keep the station maintained. How are they able to maintain their numbers? Until I can have answers about them, I would not let anyone occupy the Citadel.

 

 

 

No, but we learned about it through observation. The questions you're asking are not permeable or rational in regards to occupation. As I said, it's making your premise rather shallow and questionable. 

 

Each has a mundane theoretical answer: Resources? Recycling of base components, periodic replenishment by the Reapers (this might explain the 'mining for useful materials bit), quantum storage (we know the Reapers are capable of quantum lock (aka time lock) technology (they use it in dark space), miniature mass relays linked to some unknown facility that provides a suitable mining bed for the keepers or other automatons to manipulate... Probably more that I don't know or can't think of.

 

Numbers? Same answers. Recycling of base components, cloning from materials left in stock by the Reapers, etc.

 

There, you have some hypothetical answers. And they don't equate to population safety hazards at all.

 

[themikefest]

Say whatever you want. I would not move into the Citadel

[God]

* Harbinger not firing on the Normandy. WTF? Don't give me that Harbinger's attention was focused on the beam. Harbinger was a machine. Couldn't it multi-task? It had five weapons it could have used.

 

 

 

It's possible, but maybe it just didn't care. It wasn't a threat worth pursuing. The Reapers know quite well that they will destroy all the ships at once. Harbinger is prioritizing the charge. Stopping them from interfering with your plans is more important than one warship doing an evacuation run. The Reapers are patient. They'll take care of the immediate issue first and focus on the Normandy later.

 

* "Serve Us" while Shepard is making that final run just before being blasted.

 

 

 

Was not actually said. Developers confirmed this. They aren't lying, no matter how much you want them to or think they are.

 

* Just because you could challenge the kid doesn't change anything.

 

 

 

What is there to change? Does a verbal challenge (which the Catalyst retorts, though I'd say that's because Shepard's wasn't giving a very persuasive argument IMO) somehow equate to the Crucible firing differently? No. The Catalyst can't change the options any more than you can. It's just telling you what you can do with what you have. The only thing it controls is the off switch. Even if you could beat the Catalyst's logic, you could not beat what you have made and are pinning your hopes on. You still have 3 options to choose from, and no amounting of talking is going to change what those are.

 

* And the slide show afterward showing the aftermath with the "explanations" of what happened, and suddenly everything looked perfect like no war had ever taken place.

 

 

 

You have the fans to thank for that. People wanted a 'I-win' scenario where nobody (of real importance) dies and you and your friends get your happy happy joy joy feels for the ending. 

 

Granted, it's revealed that it takes place over a longer term than what is shown. So it's not going to be so great in the immediate aftermath.

 

And the troll ending of refusal. But we know it's not IT. I'm trolling. The fact of the matter is that it is BWT.

 

 

It's not a troll ending, it's a realistic response with an element of trolling due to BW's frustration with the absurd demand for a refusal ending where you refuse to choose to use the Crucible thinking that the moral highground and paragon-y-ness would somehow protect and save them from the Reapers.

 

It goes over about as well as you think it would. It's one reason why I'm so disdainful of people with those views. 

[God]

Say whatever you want. I would not move into the Citadel

 

That's fine. Irrational and nonsensical, but no skin off my bones.

[O_OotherSide]

IT theory is correct, the glorious ending is Shepard napping on some rocks.

[aoibhealfae]

Wasn't thanix cannon was also reaper tech. And Garrus been sleeping next to it for months. And Dr Chakwas hardly ever went out of her medbay and it sits next to the AI core. 

[dorktainian]

IT was debunked both by the Extended Cut, and by the lack of any DLC confirming the indoctrination theory.

 

hahahahahahaha  good one.  Nothing as of yet has been confirmed or denied.  In fact if you want to look at DLC you should look at Leviathan which screams something ain't right. 

 

Your argument is invalid.

[ZerebusPrime]

Whaaaaat?  Something ain't right with a DLC?  Like, deliberately?  Like a Turian exclaiming that "The French are such sushi masters!" when Turians can't even eat human food?

 

Say it ain't so!

 

Also, French sushi is apparently a thing.  It's a fusion food.  As in, cultures being fused together.  Forcibly fused together at the molecular level and pumped into a single gestalt entity responsible for atrocities like foie gras musubi.  Le abomination!

[God]

hahahahahahaha  good one.  Nothing as of yet has been confirmed or denied.  In fact if you want to look at DLC you should look at Leviathan which screams something ain't right. 

 

Your argument is invalid.

 

The premise is true. Despite BW claiming that IT was a 'valid interpretation' of the ending (that's really not saying much), they have not taken the position themselves. Thus, it was not their intent with their work. In any case, a fan theory that is not proven valid (it hasn't been) is not correct or canon.

 

Your counter-argument is invalid.

[KaiserShep]

* And the slide show afterward showing the aftermath with the "explanations" of what happened, and suddenly everything looked perfect like no war had ever taken place.

 

Except for this poor bastard.

 

[Vortex13]

Except for this poor bastard.

 

-snip-

 

 

He's just sleeping.

[dorktainian]

The premise is true. Despite BW claiming that IT was a 'valid interpretation' of the ending (that's really not saying much), they have not taken the position themselves. Thus, it was not their intent with their work. In any case, a fan theory that is not proven valid (it hasn't been) is not correct or canon.

 

Your counter-argument is invalid.

 

“Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as the final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.  The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist,'" says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."  "But," says Man, "The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.”

 

 

it can go on and on and on and on.  There is no proof of anything whatsoever.

 

FWIW I do think IT is valid, but as a part of something much much bigger.