245 réponses à ce sujet

[Zobert]

Right so..

 

She's immature, based on an article written on the Wikipedia?

 

I beg to differ. She is more mature than most people, because she realises that "circumstances and culture of society" and its "expectations" on how people should think and behave.. are a load of crap.

 

That's not some huge feat.  On the first day of school even five year olds realize that the world has a class system.  The problem is not in realizing it, it's that most people give up on utopia when they realize how much effort it takes to build one and the fact that chances are you'll end up doing things that land you in jail if you even try.

 

Saying she's awesome because she realizes that there are rich and poor and that this sucks is like saying you're awesome for figuring out that it may rain if the sky is gray.

 

 

But it's funny though, because one who is "mature" (according to that article) normally wouldn't accuse people of being pedos and predators based on an attraction to one who is clearly of legal age.

 

It is uncool to call someone who doinks Sera online a predator, but at the same time I disagree that she looks of legal age.

 

They say she's legal, then she's legal and its wrong to clock people for making her an LI.

 

I still don't think she looks legal though.

 

Anynow, this thread was doomed from the get go.

 

The thread was doomed because if a straight male ever has the temerity to ask for additional LIs even if he's not saying that gays should be denied them then suddenly the forum clique jumps in and strangles the life out of a thread like he's a homophobe or something.

 

It's rude, it's wrong, and unfortunately for this place it's also typical.

[WildOrchid]

 

*snip awesomeness*

 

Can i make love to that post, pls? Ktnxbai

 

Seriously, i roll my eyes all the time with people who say this bullcrap. Says a lot more about them. 

[Zobert]

So anyway back to what the OP actually stated versus what everyone wants to assume about him so they can have a better view from the high horse they rode in on...

 

it comes down a lot to the move away from playersexual in DA2 to a symmetric delineation because the writers want to craft orientation specific stories instead of generic human experiences.

 

Some people like that, others do not.  I prefer playersexual because I like the idea of fluid sexuality (mostly because I am) and the concept of "we're all humans in drag".  I don't like lines drawn that separate us all.

 

However, I can understand as a female and as someone who could be labeled as "queer" that feeling of "wow, someone sees me" when Bioware creates gay, lesbian and bi characters so I can see why they wouldn't want to lose that, atm.

 

I still am for playersexual because I think it expands your LI from 1-2 (depending on companions, race gate, etc) to potentially 9 which allows for more choices for everyone.  I love Dorian but after reading the KISA thread I can see where it would be nice for gay males to have a Cullen and there are women who would like a Dorian.

[FadelessRipley]

To be fair guys, there's a fair few threads dedicated to tearing poor Sera apart, so maybe we should use one of those...? 

 

 

So anyway back to what the OP actually stated versus what everyone wants to assume about him so they can have a better view from the high horse they rode in on...

 

it comes down a lot to the move away from playersexual in DA2 to a symmetric delineation because the writers want to craft orientation specific stories instead of generic human experiences.

 

Some people like that, others do not.  I prefer playersexual because I like the idea of fluid sexuality (mostly because I am) and the concept of "we're all humans in drag".  I don't like lines drawn that separate us all.

 

However, I can understand as a female and as someone who could be labeled as "queer" that feeling of "wow, someone sees me" when Bioware creates gay, lesbian and bi characters so I can see why they wouldn't want to lose that, atm.

 

I still am for playersexual because I think it expands your LI from 1-2 (depending on companions, race gate, etc) to potentially 9 which allows for more choices for everyone.  I love Dorian but after reading the KISA thread I can see where it would be nice for gay males to have a Cullen and there are women who would like a Dorian.

Interesting perspective. I personally am not a huge fan of playersexual simply because it strikes me as "unrealistic". I hope you know me well enough to know that that's not me disrespecting your self identification.  For me, not being able to romance Morrigan or Cassandra actually added to my experience. While it sucked in a way, it was indicative of real life. Plus straight felt like it "fit" those characters. Sexuality is far more fluid than we believe, yet it's not always necessarily fluid for everyone. 

 

That being said, more fluidity in game wouldn't be a bad thing. It's just very hard for BioWare to actually do without looking like they're cheapening certain orientations. DA2 missed the mark a bit in some regards.

 

On topic, I think BioWare's best bet is probably to ensure that LI numbers are completely even next time. 

[Meave]

Right so..

 

She's immature, based on an article written on the Wikipedia?

 

 

now that's a question! Does gravity act like gravity cos of some article written about it? According to you it looks it doesn't...

 

oh and I never accused anyone of being predator in the first place... also do you consider normal for let's say 60years old man to have 18 years old wife? He could be her grandfather... that is why there is a rule for socialy acceptable age difference which I mentioned earlier in this thread

[turuzzusapatuttu]

*snip*

 

Welcome back, we certainly needed your contribute in this important and, most of all, original thread.

 

*first snip*

 

 

*second snip*

 

 

*third snip*

 

 

*fourth snip*

 

That's my girl, always fighting against ignorance and stupidity.

 

Keep up the good work!

 

[Zobert]

Interesting perspective. I personally am not a huge fan of playersexual simply because it strikes me as "unrealistic". I hope you know me well enough to know that that's not me disrespecting your self identification.  For me, not being able to romance Morrigan or Cassandra actually added to my experience. While it sucked in a way, it was indicative of real life. Plus straight felt like it "fit" those characters. Sexuality is far more fluid than we believe, yet it's not always necessarily fluid for everyone. 

 

That being said, more fluidity in game wouldn't be a bad thing. It's just very hard for BioWare to actually do without looking like they're cheapening certain orientations. DA2 missed the mark a bit in some regards.

 

On topic, I think BioWare's best bet is probably to ensure that LI numbers are completely even next time. 

 

Obviously I would never think that about you because you're always posting kind and fair appraisals of other people's posts. 

 

I think at this point with Bioware they have earned credit on the GLBT and straight fronts that were they to write a "human" experience of romance and explain to the fans why they are moving towards playersexual again people would accept that it is not a slight.

 

Do I think they will?  No.

 

I think part of why we have long pauses in releases has been the desire to be all things to all people which is a huge task Bioware set for themselves.  I'm proud of them, but at the same time I'd like to not wait so long between games.

 

Others will disagree, I'm sure which is what makes debate (if polite) interesting.

[Zobert]

Welcome back, we certainly needed your contribute in this important and, most of all, original thread.

 

 

You know what else is important and, most of all, original?  Acting like you have some manners.  Apparently, lots of people weren't taught any or chose to ignore those teachings in favor of not even bothering to read the A Schumacher post that said the dude's post was cool and clock the man for his "unoriginality".

 

Since we're all fine with tea and shade throwing, how about the fact that living on this forum doesn't make you or me the boss of any new person who spent the same amount of money on the product and just wants to ask a favor of Bioware on the day of a DLC release in a mature, and most of all, polite way.

 

The same people clocking and talking maturity on here and about understanding social classes are drinking gallonsful of irony tea because it is immature to be rude to strangers, immature to not bother to read what they have to say before insulting or side-eyeing his post, and treating them like they are unwelcome to a place none of us are paying the electric bills on.

 

It's like we're back in high school and you're either in the clique or you're not.  What's high irony of a Shakespearean level is it is now the same people who were most-likely treated like crap back in high school doing it!

 

So take your unoriginal strawman, cuz the dude wasn't playing that homophobic game, and walk it right on down the yellow brick road with Dorothy because the Wizard's prolly got something to say to you and your friends right now.

 

[Zobert]

@Gyrotron

 

forget what you heard.  Just post, ask questions and pretend you're back in high school.  You can come sit at the nerdy kids table with me.  I was always comfortable there.

[Zobert]

 

 

But on the other hand, there have been so many topics about this. The people wanting to be a straight male inquisitor are upset about the romanceable female options. In a way, I can totally understand that you feel cheated due to there only being two women for a straight male inquisitor. However, I tend to lose all sympathies when someone starts talking about how "ugly" Cass and Josephine are. (I have my reasons for being upset about that, and I will just keep them to myself. I don't feel like being lectured today.) 

 

Anyway, no. It's not fair that there are really only two women for the straight male inquisitor. And I understand the frustration, personally, only because I'm a woman but I like to play a straight male inquisitor the most. But at the same time I do love Cassandra so I am not *too* frustrated. hehe

 

Maybe Dragon Age 4 will strive to have more balanced options. I think that can work and the game will still tell a great story. 

 

I agree, but the OP did none of that.  None of that.  He called no one ugly.  He didn't say gays got more options.  He did none of that and can't be blamed or shaded for it.

 

it's not nice.

 

You're being nice, so don't think I'm trying to read you.  I'm just really disappointed in how this guy was treated when he did none of those things.

[FadelessRipley]

I see why these types of thread get people riled up, I genuinely do. They annoy me, too. However I have to give OP credit and say his is the best request I've seen on the matter. I've quoted the snippet above to highlight this because:

1) He says "the romantic choices offered to - well - male lovers far outweigh the choices offered to female lovers." Chances are he means straight dudes, yeah. But that's actually pretty good wording. He's not ranting about straight guys being hard done by. He's really polite and uses pretty friendly language. These extra female options could easily be bi going by the way he's phrased it. He's not ranting about how many options others have compared to him, he's just saying there's a disparity. I'm a gay woman and I'm in the same boat as a "female lover".

2) He states it's just his two cents and actually thanks BioWare for their efforts.

I can understand a knee-jerk reaction to requests like this. However I'm hard pushed to find anything remotely like the usual disenchanted dudebro ranting in OPs post at all.

 

I feel an egotistical git quoting myself, but saves repeating myself... In a way this thread is original, because the OP has aired his point in a really good way without resorting to arguments used by angry dudebro gamers. I really don't see where getting riled up about homophobia etc fits in here...? Or are we saying anyone can ask for more options except straight male gamers? 

[Zobert]

i wish I could give two thanks to some polite, respectful, kind posters on here...

[turuzzusapatuttu]

*snip*

 

Since we're all fine with tea and shade throwing, how about the fact that living on this forum doesn't make you or me the boss of any new person who spent the same amount of money on the product and just wants to ask a favor of Bioware on the day of a DLC release in a mature, and most of all, polite way.

 

*snip*

 

 

 

Says the one who has been harassing everybody in this thread.

 

 

The Internet is a wonderful place, innit?

[DirkJake]

 

 

On topic, I think BioWare's best bet is probably to ensure that LI numbers are completely even next time. 

 

2 options for straight male PC

4 options for straight female PC

2 options for gay male PC

2 options for female lesbian PC

 

You can say they are all even. 

[vertigomez]

yes, but those are incomparable, cos in DAO you could romance Lelliana with any character and in DA2 you could romance Isabella with any character. DAI has no interesting female choices for lesbian inquisitors. Best woman in whole DAI is Cassandra, but she is not into women. Sera is just a stupid street urchin with really annoying slang and half of the time she doesn't make sense and Josephine is boring golden spoon fed moron...

"I don't like these options, so they're not options!"

Ugh.

[Meave]

"I don't like these options, so they're not options!"

Ugh.

 

thats how it works, I don't like those options so there is no option for me. How else it suppose to work? If you told let's say unemployed woman that she has an option to go work like a companion, do you think most of them would even consider it as an option? (provided that it would be in state where it is legal)

[Zobert]

Says the one who has been harassing everybody in this thread.

 

 

The Internet is a wonderful place, innit?

 

Oh yes the Internet is wonderful.  It lets us act like we have no manners when meeting strangers for the first time.

 

I have zero problem being the ****** that is willing to say that this type of behavior is enough already.  It's just mean.  If calling out the highly predictable people on this thread is wrong then I don't want to be right. 

 

I'm not denying that I a) knew people would respond like a plastic, or having something to say to your something to say.

 

So gif all you want, the read fits.  Several people were rude to this man and prejudged him.

[Winged Silver]

I thinking wanting more is never out of touch I think every game has its hits and misses, regarding personal preferences in an LI, which is totally okay! Just means next game someone might get luckier than someone else. 

 

I know I can get defensive of Cass and Josie, given how many 'meh' threads there are on their appearances, but I can definitely see how they might not be everyone's cup of tea. 

 

So....I guess what Bioware can take away is that everyone wants more of this particular feature (across a wide range of genders and sexuality)? That's  at least how I'm seeing it

[Panda]

thats how it works, I don't like those options so there is no option for me. How else it suppose to work? If you told let's say unemployed woman that she has an option to go work like a companion, do you think most of them would even consider it as an option? (provided that it would be in state where it is legal)

 

I don't quite get the example here, but it's not really Bioware's fault if you are considering your options no-options. They gave you 8 after all. It can be your own taste or pickiness or being unlucky whatever, but it just is the situation. Bioware can't possibly do enough different characters in the game as LI's that everyone would find someone who is totally their type.

[vertigomez]

thats how it works, I don't like those options so there is no option for me. How else it suppose to work? If you told let's say unemployed woman that she has an option to go work like a companion, do you think most of them would even consider it as an option? (provided that it would be in state where it is legal)

Because they're still options, even if you don't like them. Isabela and Merrill are options in DA2-- saying "well, I don't like brunettes!" doesn't change that.

[Andraste_Reborn]

There are plenty of people who played straight female or gay male PCs in DA2 and didn't like the angstfest that was the Anders vs. Fenris romance situation (and Sebastian doesn't help if you're playing a dude, assuming you even like him.) They still had two options.

 

It's like that night back when I was in college and arrived at dinner only to find out that my meal choices for the evening were prawn stirfry and mushroom casserole. A choice between two things I don't eat wasn't much good to me, but they'd still provided one. (And unlike my college, BioWare have never promised to give anyone a certain number of options.)

[Zobert]

Because they're still options, even if you don't like them. Isabela and Merrill are options in DA2-- saying "well, I don't like brunettes!" doesn't change that.

 

He asked for more options.  Not that there were no options. And since when is it wrong to ask a company if they could possibly do _____________?

 

We're consumers buying a product.  People begged Bethesda for Skyrim and got it.  Gay gamers wanted exclusive gay LIs and got it.  People wanted open world and got it.  People wanted a different combat system and <gulp> got it.

 

If he said "Gays get all the good options" or "How come straight gamers have crap options" or whatever I could see, but his OP was perfectly polite and reasonable.

[FadelessRipley]

thats how it works, I don't like those options so there is no option for me. How else it suppose to work? If you told let's say unemployed woman that she has an option to go work like a companion, do you think most of them would even consider it as an option? (provided that it would be in state where it is legal)

I don't think I quite get you... Giving the exact amount of options to each sexual orientation, of asking for more of one gender as OP did - OK, I get how we can ask for that. But how in Andraste's name do you expect BioWare to give EVERYONE an option they like?! Let's say you and I are both paying customers of BioWare and die hard fans. We have complete opposite LI tastes. So, who does BioWare cater to? How the heck do they even *know*?? :s

Even if they go back to the DA2 playersexual model, you cannot guarantee everyone will like the options presented. Not liking the options really isn't something BioWare can be expected to tackle, in fairness.