339 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

I just wish people were more understanding in conversation.

 

Some people have this problem where almost anything triggers their impulse to fight back negatively and then they just become poisonous to civility and a mutual discussion.

[LPPrince]

Because people, as a rule, always think that they know more than they do, so they look down on people who don't share their oh-so-well-informed opinion.

 

This too. I think we're all a little guilty of it to some degree.

[Bunny]

Add the flaws of humanity to the anonymity granted by the internet and the ubiquity of social media, and hateful words do ridiculous damage.

[CenturyCrow]

For me respect is earned, and its shown both ways.

 

That said developers are people like anyone else, the deserve to be treated fairly but when they show very little regard for their customers like Bioware has done, i feel respect is not earned or warranted..

 

I also feel devs should not be put on a pedestal like most fans do.

 

That said i agree development can be a hard job with horrible bosses, hours and deadlines, but isn't most jobs..

 

If AAA companies such as UBISOFT, Sony, EA actually showed some respect to us the customers (who pay their wages) occasionally instead of treating us as stupid ignorant money sponges... then maybe, just maybe the customers might treat them a bit better..

The Devs are stuck between corporate and the users. Corporate execs aren't even located near the studio nor are they interested in users or user opinions–they are totally disconnected from everything. There's no way to easily reach a corporate exec and complain; they don't want to hear from users. So the devs end up with the flak. Originally, BioWare was an independent developer that was published by EA. Now they are a wholly owned division, totally under EA control. The people that EA execs listen to? Shareholders.

 

Here's an interesting article/opinion on 'corporate culture,' Is capitalism killing games?     Creativity vs. money

 

“I'd say it's more of a capitalism trend, which means all those companies need growth. If you're a public company you need to have constant growth and you need to conquer more territory, and the day you're not, your shareholders bail.”

 

http://www.gamesindu...e-world-lanning

[LPPrince]

Add the flaws of humanity to the anonymity granted by the internet and the ubiquity of social media, and hateful words do ridiculous damage.

 

Its not even just hateful words, its sometimes as simple as attitude.

 

Misconstrued statements, words taken out of context, inherent antagonism, etc etc. Humanity's flaws are exacerbated online.

[NaclynE]

Nintendo found out how well they did from isolating a huge chunk of their fanbase too. I wonder how long Bioware will realise that they are isolating their PC gaming fans? I find it a massive hassle to set up my controller, atm it is sitting on the shelf gathering dust because it takes too long to set it up! 

 

True. Nintendo is usually about their Mario/Link games than anything else. As of right now I do agree BIOWARE does seem to only bump out MASS EFFECT or DRAGON AGE games when there have been periodic announcements of a JADE EMPIRE 2 being out in 2013 for all systems (including PC) but I haven't heard or seen anything on it and been only hearing on the next MASS EFFECT game as opposed to anything else.

 

I think I may be missing the point about the PC thing and franchise thing but it sounds like this is what's being said. If it's something entirely all I guess I can say is at least PC gamers get DLC for free. since i play games on consoles more I have to pay for DLC's 90% of the time.

 

This place is  respectful and squeaky clean compared to tumblr.

 

I haven't been to tumblr ever. I am tempted. I stopped going to spoonyexperiment.com because it seemed like what I say means nothing and how people seem to be always right when they provide false research information or false proof.

 

There are many Developers i respect as companies and how they treat and interact with their communities. Sadly Bioware and EA aren't what i'd call easy to associate with or even relate too, respect for them imo is at an all time low, compared to many other game companies..

 

I would say from what i've seen from Bioware and EA Games they seem a very arrogant and egotistical game company.

 

Well all I can say here is I do respect BIOWARE but I don't respect EA. There are other companies I do respect myself and were companies I did respect until some had some "understandable" changes. TEAM NINJA I know underwent a signifacant change (president gets ousted for no giving employees vacation pay and or days off) so as of right now with the changes being a few years(?) old it's hard to say atm if they are going to go downhill or not in my eyes while others say yes after METROID: OTHER M. 

 

Do you mean the language or the content? There are a lot of... um, sexually explicit things about Bioware and Dragon Age on tumblr. Plus if you have any criticism on Dragon Age this massive fantards RAGE against you, "AS IF YOU HAVE AN OPINION THAT IS NOT MINE?!"

 

Well honestly I try to keep what I say clean even though I know of ways to cheat the system. tee hee hee.

 

I meant both..

 

Yeah, Tumblr has some questionable content, that's for sure. Liarax Vorcha gif anyone? 

 

Well from I know of yeah people do post hentai gifs so...Lol?

[Vegeta 77]

I do respect bioware but people can criticize and dislike a product and with the new dlc from what i have seen and others do not believe it is worth the money. Also others feel like there feedback is not all been listened to when people have been asking for a more heavy story dlc and did not get it. 

[DanteYoda]

I'm all for the right to express one's opinions, but I also value kindness. People in charge are people too.

 

http://neil-gaiman.t...lic-information

 

http://hollywoodlog....ll-read-it.html

Yes but lately they act like they aren't..

[CronoDragoon]

Respect was probably the wrong word for this thread. Politeness is all that's asked.

[Alchir]

The Devs are stuck between corporate and the users. Corporate execs aren't even located near the studio nor are they interested in users or user opinions–they are totally disconnected from everything. There's no way to easily reach a corporate exec and complain; they don't want to hear from users. So the devs end up with the flak. Originally, BioWare was an independent developer that was published by EA. Now they are a wholly owned division, totally under EA control. The people that EA execs listen to? Shareholders.

 

Here's an interesting article/opinion on 'corporate culture,' Is capitalism killing games?     Creativity vs. money

 

“I'd say it's more of a capitalism trend, which means all those companies need growth. If you're a public company you need to have constant growth and you need to conquer more territory, and the day you're not, your shareholders bail.”

 

http://www.gamesindu...e-world-lanning

Completely agree, and sadly it's the way to ruination. If this trend keeps up series like Dragon Age are going to drop in quality or at least distance themselves from the original focus of the series. Seen it happen tons of times with other entertainment projects or companies. 

[Morroian]

Completely agree, and sadly it's the way to ruination. If this trend keeps up series like Dragon Age are going to drop in quality or at least distance themselves from the original focus of the series. Seen it happen tons of times with other entertainment projects or companies. 

 

Well in the minds of quite a few people that already happened.

[Alchir]

Well in the minds of quite a few people that already happened.

Maybe although personally i think we are at a juncture. 

[DanteYoda]

In the thread "First DLC: Jaws of Hakkon"  Sylv F responded to the accusation that the DLC was part of the main game and stripped out to be DLC. She said that as one of the writers of the DLC she could assure us that the entire DLC was made after DA:I was finished. (I am on IE so I can't quote, but you can go to the thread and click on the Bioware icon to read her post.)

 

Some people complained about that though. They complained because if everything was made after the game came out, they felt that meant that the devs "didn't listen to feedback." 

 

In an interview Mike Laidlaw reportedly said (I read this in the thread, I don't have the source) that there were two camps among the devs on how to do DLC. One camp wanted to make DLC just the same as the main game and the other camp wanted more story heavy DLC. Apparently the first camp won with regards to the JOH.

One how can she assure us?

 

And two the camp that wanted to make story heavy DLC needs to be in charge and the camp that won needs to be dropped..

 

Respect was probably the wrong word for this thread. Politeness is all that's asked.

Politeness to us or to the Devs?

[SomberXIII]

Respect was probably the wrong word for this thread. Politeness is all that's asked.

As I am not a native speaker, the meaning could be lost in conversion. Sorry to have caused a confusion. I no longer want to participarte in the discussions about which one is right or wrong. I just meant respecting the work done by the people, not products or company as a whole.

[Nefla]

Guys, let's all be excellent to each other (and the devs).

[Master Shiori]

Yes, we do describe it as worthless, because to us, that's what it is.

Doesn't matter how much work was put into the thing, it's worthless, because it's not what you wanted.

The only thing worthless is the feedback you just gave.

 

Put yourself into the developer's shoes for a second. Say you released a DLC, the reception wasn't what you expected, and now you want to find out what the problem is so you can correct it and make your future products better.

 

And all you get back from your consumers is: "It's worthless!"

 

Does this explain the problem? No, it doesn't.

Does it help you understand what the customers truly want? No.

Does it help you come up with improvements to make the product better? Hell, no.

 

It's fine if something isn't to your liking. It's also fine to explain why you don't like it and how, in your opinion, it could be made better. But to do that you need to actually take the time to post your concerns in detail, so developers can understand them and act upon the information you gave them.

[duckley]

Without the nuance of seeing the body language, of hearing the tone of voice... - the written word can seem colder and harsher than perhaps intended. This accounts for some of the  "disrespect" that comes through on boards like this. Also, using over-the-top emphatic language and phrases, stating opinions as though they were facts may give an far more negative slant to comments expressed.

 

I do have to say  the developers do seem to be between a rock and a hard place.

[Morroian]

Maybe although personally i think we are at a juncture. 

 

IMHO DA2 was the juncture. They've gone the wrong way.

[NaclynE]

Respect was probably the wrong word for this thread. Politeness is all that's asked.

 

Well I always try to be polite to any game developer I can be. I know even game testers try to be too. I remember there was a guy I knew once who was a game tester for I think it was EA or 989 STUDIOS or something that was testing a NHL game. He was polite about how there were some glitches in a game and the devs said they were going to take care of them. However from my understanding the people responsible for the game blew them off and the game tester was like wth. It didn't seem like he left in a guff he just politely and respectfully dropped out being a game tester.

 

As I am not a native speaker, the meaning could be lost in conversion. Sorry to have caused a confusion. I no longer want to participarte in the discussions about which one is right or wrong. I just meant respecting the work done by the people, not products or company as a whole.

 

Well it's ok. Sometimes I admit I get a bit anal about how litteral a subject is/was. I remember the opening comment was talking about the DLC being out only for the XBOX ONE at the moment and how supposedly "MICROSOFT paid a garbage amount of money to the XBOX ONE first" and how "people should yay or nay blame BIOWARE?EA over the issue" if I remember right. All I can say is I mainly voiced my opinion on the subject being "Why don't people respect the devs" which to me I thought people were talking about any company and what issues people have with them. Frankly to be on the subject on the first post I suppose I agree it stinks that since I have DAI on the XBOX 360 apparently I have to wait until it comes out on that version. As far as the subject being respecting devs as I said before I don't like SQUARE ENIX for giving us empty promises like BUSHIDO BLADE 3 at PS 3 launch when we have a PS 4 out now and KINGDOM HEARTS 3 was to be out in March 2015 but is now to be rushed out possibly 2016.

 

Guys, let's all be excellent to each other (and the devs).

 

I do try to. All i can say is props to BIOWARE for appreciating our feedback one way or another and doing the best they can with our voices over what we bring. All I can say is if we all didn't like you we wouldn't be posting our thoughts here I suppose. Lol.

[Toasted Llama]

I'm a little late to the party so I'm sure I'm probably just repeating what others have already said. Anyways...

Perhaps respect would be the incorrect term as it's seen as admiration/looking up to/praise for someone or something nowadays. Don't agree with that myself, I see respect as treating other people as equals.

You don't think the devs are worthy of praise, looking up to admiration? Okay, that's totally fine.

But let's get real here... Resorting to insults, ad hominems and BSN 2 favourite things: baseless assumptions and statements without arguments to back them up, it really gets yourself and the devs nowhere.

You didn't like the DLC or the game, because it wasn't what you expected, you wanted more of x more of y, more of z, the amount of bugs and glitches in the game were too high for your standards etc. You can even say the DLC/game wasn't worth your money and you'd like a refund if possible; totally understandable!

But some of the things the BSN users are calling the game and the DLC (and even the Bioware company as a whole) is a bit of a stretch.

I mean... Worthless? Really? No, really...?

Though to be honest it's not just the BSN, DA:I is receiving 0s on metacritic. Call me a fanboy/fangirl, but 0/10 is very, very, very exaggerated.

[MonkeyLungs]

Didn't read whole thread ... wanted to say most of us do respect the devs, these girls and guys make the best games with the coolest characters!

[NaclynE]

I'm a little late to the party so I'm sure I'm probably just repeating what others have already said. Anyways...

Perhaps respect would be the incorrect term as it's seen as admiration/looking up to/praise for someone or something nowadays. Don't agree with that myself, I see respect as treating other people as equals.

You don't think the devs are worthy of praise, looking up to admiration? Okay, that's totally fine.

But let's get real here... Resorting to insults, ad hominems and BSN 2 favourite things: baseless assumptions and statements without arguments to back them up, it really gets yourself and the devs nowhere.

You didn't like the DLC or the game, because it wasn't what you expected, you wanted more of x more of y, more of z, the amount of bugs and glitches in the game were too high for your standards etc. You can even say the DLC/game wasn't worth your money and you'd like a refund if possible; totally understandable!

But some of the things the BSN users are calling the game and the DLC (and even the Bioware company as a whole) is a bit of a stretch.

I mean... Worthless? Really? No, really...?

Though to be honest it's not just the BSN, DA:I is receiving 0s on metacritic. Call me a fanboy/fangirl, but 0/10 is very, very, very exaggerated.

 

Amen. I couldn't say it myself. Just giving harsh comments like what I have occasionally read on some threads on this website is just uncool. Just say "hey....I think this needs to be fixed" or whatever instead of "Biowares games are the ****en suck because they are glitchy beyond mother ****ing hell and i feel people should boycott them" or whatever. I mean seriously most uncool with the comments. I have issues with DAI on the XBOX 360 myself but people don't hear me insultmania-ing the crap out of BIOWARE.

[DarthLaxian]

Does that include the Feedback and suggestions forum for the DA games is considered useless? 

 

It is - isn't it?

 

As far as I know they aren't really taking any of the (major) suggestions (not matter which team at Bioware - neither the Mass Effect one nor the Dragon Age one are showing that they are listening to the fan's...yes they sometimes comment, but nothing really changes (and then there's things like that slap in the face refuse-ending in Mass Effect or the small number of spell slots on PC, the removal of healing etc. - things almost no one likes (and told them so, too) but they still did, because they liked them...shouldn't they try to make a product WE (the fans - the people buying it!) like - and not one they like?)

 

greetings LAX

[In Exile]

Without the nuance of seeing the body language, of hearing the tone of voice... - the written word can seem colder and harsher than perhaps intended. This accounts for some of the  "disrespect" that comes through on boards like this. Also, using over-the-top emphatic language and phrases, stating opinions as though they were facts may give an far more negative slant to comments expressed.

 

I do have to say  the developers do seem to be between a rock and a hard place.

 

That's true, but people are openly rude in ways that are hard to misinterpret. "Bioware is lazy" doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation, for example. 

[wolfhowwl]

It is - isn't it?

 

As far as I know they aren't really taking any of the (major) suggestions (not matter which team at Bioware - neither the Mass Effect one nor the Dragon Age one are showing that they are listening to the fan's...yes they sometimes comment, but nothing really changes (and then there's things like that slap in the face refuse-ending in Mass Effect or the small number of spell slots on PC, the removal of healing etc. - things almost no one likes (and told them so, too) but they still did, because they liked them...shouldn't they try to make a product WE (the fans - the people buying it!) like - and not one they like?)

 

greetings LAX

 

"and then there's things like that slap in the face refuse-ending in Mass Effect"

 

lol