339 réponses à ce sujet

[DarkAmaranth1966]

What was in the emporium?

I'm still not violating the NDA, that is legal so regardless of my lack of respect for Bioware, that stands.

[Bunny]

The schleets got him after all.

[t0mm06]

Yes, we do describe it as worthless, because to us, that's what it is.

Let me give you an analogy. There's a cake baker. They bake huge cakes and people purchase slices of said cake. You like chocolate cake. One day, they bring out a coconut flavored cake. That cake is worthless to you, because it's not the chocolate you wanted.

Doesn't matter how much work was put into the thing, it's worthless, because it's not what you wanted.

 

This is completely fair...

The issue with these forums are as follows.

So you don't like the coconut cake. That's a shame, but you can tell the baker, 'hey I'm a long time customer LOVED the chocolate cake you used to make... not a fan of the coconut, just isnt to my taste. I hope in the future you make some more chocolate cake.

 

The baker thinks, fair enough, I thought you might have liked coconut cake... something different, a lot of people do like the coconut cake, but I value my previous customers... next time i'll throw a bit more chocolate in.

 

Now thats fair enough and a lot of people do phrase they're criticism that way.

 

BUT a lot of people phrase it as such:

 

**** YOU and **** this ****** cake shop, you're just doing coconut cake to try and get the more casual cake eaters, you dont care about chocolate anymore and by extension YOU HATE ME! If you dont make a full chocolate cake next time im going to never buy you're products again!... JOKES im going to buy all of them and then ****** and moan some more.

 

Now after this maybe the the baker thinks 'wow what a dick head... but you know those coconut customers, they seemed to really like it, they didnt call me a ****. They did ask for lemon drizzle though, maybe i'll do that next time.

 

 

* DISCLAIMER:  Obviously this is just an example... In real life chocolate is the 'casual cakers' cake of choice.

 

Ohh also seriously try coconut cake with lemon drizzle, its really very good. (They're at their best when done as cupcakes, a little bit of lemon rind in the cake mix)   

[panamakira]

The problem is this is the internet and this is the BSN and people feel entitled to treat people however they like just because there's a special pass they think they have because they're a customer.

 

As much as I'm a fan of Bioware, I can also be critical of certain aspects of their games but I've never felt the need to insult the devs when I don't like something. People DO NOT KNOW how to critique a product and so they resort to personal insults or become entitled to things as if they were the most important customer in the world and it's frankly the main reason why the devs have probably stayed the heck away from the forums.

 

It has become so damn toxic to be here. I have absolutely no problem with people criticizing the game or DLC, its the manner in which they conduct themselves when doing so that ruins it for everybody really.

 

It's just the way our internet culture works nowadays and it's just discouraging really for anybody, specially gamers.

[Bunny]

This is completely fair...

The issue with these forums are as follows.

So you don't like the coconut cake. That's a shame, but you can tell the baker, 'hey I'm a long time customer LOVED the chocolate cake you used to make... not a fan of the coconut, just isnt to my taste. I hope in the future you make some more chocolate cake.

 

The baker thinks, fair enough, I thought you might have liked coconut cake... something different, a lot of people do like the coconut cake, but I value my previous customers... next time i'll throw a bit more chocolate in.

 

Now thats fair enough and a lot of people do phrase they're criticism that way.

 

BUT a lot of people phrase it as such:

 

**** YOU and **** this ****** cake shop, you're just doing coconut cake to try and get the more casual cake eaters, you dont care about chocolate anymore and by extension YOU HATE ME! If you dont make a full chocolate cake next time im going to never buy you're products again!... JOKES im going to buy all of them and then ****** and moan some more.

 

Now after this maybe the the baker thinks 'wow what a dick head... but you know those coconut customers, they seemed to really like it, they didnt call me a ****. They did ask for lemon drizzle though, maybe i'll do that next time.

 

 

* DISCLAIMER:  Obviously this is just an example... In real life chocolate is the 'casual cakers' cake of choice.

 

Ohh also seriously try coconut cake with lemon drizzle, its really very good. (They're at their best when done as cupcakes, a little bit of lemon rind in the cake mix)   

 

Cake makes everything better.

 

The Inquisition Needs Cake!

 

The Demands of the Cake

 

Dwarven cake. Fine, Dwarven cake. Direct from Orzammar.

 

Where is the cake? I was told there would be cake. The cake is a lie.

[Mr Plow]

I for one wish to try t0mm's coconut lemon drizzle cake

[AntarcticWildlife]

The problem is this is the internet and this is the BSN and people feel entitled to treat people however they like just because there's a special pass they think they have because they're a customer.

 

As much as I'm a fan of Bioware, I can also be critical of certain aspects of their games but I've never felt the need to insult the devs when I don't like something. People DO NOT KNOW how to critique a product and so they resort to personal insults or become entitled to things as if they were the most important customer in the world and it's frankly the main reason why the devs have probably stayed the heck away from the forums.

 

It has become so damn toxic to be here. I have absolutely no problem with people criticizing the game or DLC, its the manner in which they conduct themselves when doing so that ruins it for everybody really.

 

It's just the way our internet culture works nowadays and it's just discouraging really for anybody, specially gamers.

 

Did you even read the reddit review? Its pretty constructive. Not whiney or toxic at all. People who buy a product actually do have an entitlement to critisise it if they dont like it. They bought the game. Frankly I think its very telling that the devs won't interact on their own forums and refuse to communicate with us. Most large game companies have PR reps and community managers. Bioware seems to have neither.

[Fast Jimmy]

I had never even heard of BSN, until I wandered in here last year through a link in a news article that pointed this way, when Mike Laidlaw announced DAI Romances through the forums (which I found remarkable):

http://forum.bioware...ge-inquisition/

I started participating here after things got messy in the fandom on tumblr after DAI came out, but I see that people here (not everyone, but a compelling enough group of voices) have become bitter and unappeasable. What happened to the fans' amicable relationship with the devs?

Were things ever good between fans and devs, or was my intro to BSNland just a lucky fluke of a first impression?

Just a fluke, really. Things haven't been cordial here for years. And the devs are hardly ever seen (not that I blame them).

[Apollexander]

Because in real life people are f**ked and on internet people are f**king.

It is a common activity. A coach of a famous football/NBA/whatever team can hardly avoid critisms. A famous singer is being attacked by a large group of people. Big companies are always evil.

[Wulfram]

I had never even heard of BSN, until I wandered in here last year through a link in a news article that pointed this way, when Mike Laidlaw announced DAI Romances through the forums (which I found remarkable):

 

http://forum.bioware...ge-inquisition/

 

I started participating here after things got messy in the fandom on tumblr after DAI came out, but I see that people here (not everyone, but a compelling enough group of voices) have become bitter and unappeasable. What happened to the fans' amicable relationship with the devs?

 

Were things ever good between fans and devs, or was my intro to BSNland just a lucky fluke of a first impression?

 

Things were fairly good between fans and devs before DA2 came out, but not so much since then.  But I guess you had a lucky fluke.

 

Though things vary a fair bit.  The tone of a forum is never going to be the same after release as it was before release - you get quite a few different people, for one thing.

[Bunny]

"Right now, we need writers who know the difference between production of a market commodity and the practice of an art."

 

"We live in capitalism, its power seems inescapable – but then, so did the divine right of kings. Any human power can be resisted and changed by human beings."

 

Ursula K Le Guin

 

She's talking about books, but our discussion just brought this to mind.

[rashie]

Respect is earned, not given freely. If people are not pleased with the product they bought its in their full rights to voice their opinion on it. Calling a product bad also isn't a personal attack on the developers.

 

I do not condone people insulting devs at all but criticising product != criticising dev.

[AresKeith]

Funny thing is that such things is extremely rare here in DA section.

 

Not really, it's mostly contained in the feedback section for now 

[AresKeith]

Criticising a product =/= Disrespecting the developers.

 

The OP isn't talking about people who give criticism, some people take giving criticism to an unnecessary level to where they pretty much are being disrespectful or childish  

[Drago_28]

He's dead in a ditch somewhere. Spoiler.

Go to hell Oghren is alive! i know this.

[Morroian]

Of course, you can choose not to buy it but at least pay respect to the people who made it. The whole DLC needs countless man-hours to develop. The devs did their best to deliver us a great product. Then the product isn't up to your taste, you just describe it 'worthless'.

 

But they clearly haven't done their best. Its more of the same gameplay that players dislike the most about the game with an inconsequential story. And for people in regions other than the US its hideously overpriced, yes this is EA's fault not Bioware's but it reflects on Bioware. 

[AWTEW]

The problem is this is the internet and this is the BSN and people feel entitled to treat people however they like just because there's a special pass they think they have because they're a customer.

As much as I'm a fan of Bioware, I can also be critical of certain aspects of their games but I've never felt the need to insult the devs when I don't like something. People DO NOT KNOW how to critique a product and so they resort to personal insults or become entitled to things as if they were the most important customer in the world and it's frankly the main reason why the devs have probably stayed the heck away from the forums.

It has become so damn toxic to be here. I have absolutely no problem with people criticizing the game or DLC, its the manner in which they conduct themselves when doing so that ruins it for everybody really.

It's just the way our internet culture works nowadays and it's just discouraging really for anybody, specially gamers.

You wern't here for ME3 meltdown if you think this is toxic. The DA fandom is much more reasonable, and this forum is like. lignt shower on a sunny day.

I respect the devs as people, but as developers and a company...hahaha-no.

[NextGenCowboy]

This is completely fair...

The issue with these forums are as follows.

So you don't like the coconut cake. That's a shame, but you can tell the baker, 'hey I'm a long time customer LOVED the chocolate cake you used to make... not a fan of the coconut, just isnt to my taste. I hope in the future you make some more chocolate cake.

 

The baker thinks, fair enough, I thought you might have liked coconut cake... something different, a lot of people do like the coconut cake, but I value my previous customers... next time i'll throw a bit more chocolate in.

 

Now thats fair enough and a lot of people do phrase they're criticism that way.

 

BUT a lot of people phrase it as such:

 

**** YOU and **** this ****** cake shop, you're just doing coconut cake to try and get the more casual cake eaters, you dont care about chocolate anymore and by extension YOU HATE ME! If you dont make a full chocolate cake next time im going to never buy you're products again!... JOKES im going to buy all of them and then ****** and moan some more.

 

Now after this maybe the the baker thinks 'wow what a dick head... but you know those coconut customers, they seemed to really like it, they didnt call me a ****. They did ask for lemon drizzle though, maybe i'll do that next time.

 

 

* DISCLAIMER:  Obviously this is just an example... In real life chocolate is the 'casual cakers' cake of choice.

 

Ohh also seriously try coconut cake with lemon drizzle, its really very good. (They're at their best when done as cupcakes, a little bit of lemon rind in the cake mix)   

 

Congrats, you won BSN on this day.

[KaiserShep]

Respect is earned, not given freely. If people are not pleased with the product they bought its in their full rights to voice their opinion on it. Calling a product bad also isn't a personal attack on the developers.

 

I do not condone people insulting devs at all but criticising product != criticising dev.

 

I suppose the better word to use is courtesy, since a little of this basic thing can go a long way to maintain decorum. Unfortunately, anonymity makes it easy for that to corrode and turn into venomous vitriol, like what happened on the ME3 side of the camp.

[Draining Dragon]

Respect is a two-way street.

[Kantr]

I'm quite sure which is worse. BSN or the bad parts of Tumblr.

[Bunny]

I'm quite sure which is worse. BSN or the bad parts of Tumblr.

 

The bad parts of Tumblr = much worse.

[Il Divo]

There's a general inability to express criticism constructively, due to an immature need for attention which swings what one says to an extreme.

 

This is usually followed by an inability to understand that when people like the OP shake their heads at this, they are doing so not at the feedback itself but the childish way it is expressed.

 

Yep, agreed on all counts.

 

The other problem is that people have this unfortunate habit of theorizing far beyond the scope of the game to create all sorts of alterior motives about why the experience was garbage. It's not enough, for example, to say "I hate DA:I, I hate the gameplay, the story, the exploration, etc", which is fine. There are Bioware games I hate (BG1). 

 

But on the other hand, they have this tendency to ascribe every unfortunate aspect about the game experience to EA in contrast to nice, sweet "Pre-EA" Bioware. This is why I try to keep my criticisms narrow: to the game itself. Because reality is, if gamers liked the experience, they probably wouldn't care who owned Bioware or the circumstances behind their design choices, provided their satisfied. 

[Lilithor]

The latest DLC is out and the reception is beyond bad. Timed exclusivity is a bad move and it shouldn't happen in the first place. I understand people complaining about it. But saying the DLC is worthless? Really? 

Of course, you can choose not to buy it but at least pay respect to the people who made it. The whole DLC needs countless man-hours to develop. The devs did their best to deliver us a great product. Then the product isn't up to your taste, you just describe it 'worthless'.

P.S: I know many will find my opinion 'invalid' or 'fanboyish' but I'm being honest.

Worthless is giving them too much credit. They should bow down and worship those who say this DLC is worthless. An abomination that should have never seen the light of day, that should have never left the minds of their stupid creators. Hope they get depressed with the reception, would make our lives better to fire them and put others in their place. They already fucked up the game enough, they all should follow Gaider.