339 réponses à ce sujet

[MrMrPendragon]

Criticizing the game is often mistaken as disrespecting the developers. The devs may even see it like that and just totally disregard half of what's being said in here.

 

Sometimes, people, even myself, get a little too carried away with our frustrations in one aspect of the game that it looks like we're just totally trolling or just outright hating.

 

I put Bioware at a different standard than most developers out there and I know they're capable of making great games, which is why it sometimes frustrates me when something horrible -  like tedious quests, RNG, and forced crafting, all of which are designed to artificially extend your game time - even makes it in one of their games.

[blahblahblah]

Western RPG makers seem to be sitting in complacence because they poo-poo "JRPGs".

LOL, its the JRPG makers who are in complacency in the first place especially Squeenix. Bioware is not the WRPG maker in the world, there's Obsidian, Bethesda, CDPR, etc..

[Chiramu]

LOL, its the JRPG makers who are complacency in the first place especially Squeenix. Bioware is not the WRPG maker in the world, there's Obsidian, Bethesda, CDPR, etc..

 

Obsidian is a pile of shite.

[blahblahblah]

Obsidian is a pile of shite.

LOL, you need to play Pillars of Eternity first before saying that and you may will eat your words.

[Unpleasant Implications]

LOL, you need to play Pillars of Eternity first before saying that and you may will eat your words.

One good game would not re-write their past mediocrity.

I enjoy them, but I also acknowledge that they're horrifically bug filled messes. I'm pretty sure the only one that wasn't falling apart at the seams is The Stick of Truth, and that's because it that game was so simple they COULDN'T have fucked it up.

[blahblahblah]

One good game would not re-wrote their past mediocrity.

I enjoy them, but I also acknowledge that they're horrifically bug filled messes. I'm pretty sure the only one that wasn't falling apart at the seams is The Stick of Truth, and that's because it that game was so simple they COULDN'T have fucked it up.

Their games are bug-ridden but mediocre, hell no.

[Unpleasant Implications]

Their games are bug-ridden but mediocre, hell no.

Umm... Hell yes?

[NextGenCowboy]

Depends on the game. I like some of their output, but KotOR2 was a mess, NWN2 was a mess, Alpha Protocol I liked, but it was a mess, and kind of meh (it just struck my liking due to being unique), New Vegas is awesome though, but then again I had all my data deleted on that twice (including the whole first night I played), and got locked out of the city. I also take issue with some of their design choices.

 

So, they've had 1 game that struck my fancy, 2 that I really liked (one unplayable, one a different kind of mess), and 2 games I didn't care for at all. 66% ain't bad. DS3 also seems pretty mediocre all the way around. I'll give them 66%, with a lot story choices I don't care for. Okay, but not up to the standard set by their precursors.

 

Maybe, slightly above mediocre? I hope PoE is excellent, and I hope people love it, because it looks amazing, and I'd like to see more devs take some (not all) cues from it. That doesn't mean NVN2 was good, or KotOR2 was anything other than what it was released as, and yes I know why it was released in that state, but you generally build a beginning, and ending, and then a middle. Not an opening, some middle, and then forget to build the rest.  AP just had some awkward design choices, though I would have liked to see that expanded upon.

[Unpleasant Implications]

Depends on the game. I like some of their output, but KotOR2 was a mess, NWN2 was a mess, Alpha Protocol I liked, but it was a mess, and kind of meh (it just struck my liking due to being unique), New Vegas is awesome though, but then again I had all my data deleted on that twice (including the whole first night I played), and got locked out of the city. I also take issue with some of their design choices.
 
So, they've had 1 game that struck my fancy, 2 that I really liked (one unplayable, one a different kind of mess), and 2 games I didn't care for at all. 66% ain't bad. DS3 also seems pretty mediocre all the way around. I'll give them 66%, with a lot story choices I don't care for. Okay, but not up to the standard set by their precursors.

Actually, if I read this correctly, you said two messes, one that you like despite being a mess, and one you really like despite game breaking bugs. Oh, and one mediocre.

Yeah... That's not really what I'd give a 66%, especially when you say that even those you liked were messes, but meh, personal tastes and all that.

Also, re-did the math, that's five games. 3/5 is 60%.

[Morroian]

Umm... Hell yes?

 

How are they mediocre then? And the criticms over bugs is overstated in most cases (Kotor 2 and FNV) QA was not their responsibility and in the case of Kotor 2 it was rushed out by the publisher. Conceptually they push the boundaries of role playing and innovate more than any other rpg dev. Listen to Chris Avellone or JE Sawyer talk about rpg concepts and they make the BW devs sound like they don't actually understand how to make rpgs.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

Umm... Hell yes?

 

I don't know what made you think that, I get that liking a game is subjective, but I'd really like to know how you concluded that Obsidian's games are mediocre, since everyone of it's game has an average of 8/10 rating from critics, save for Alpha Protocol, (we don't like to about that game, that game was an ... unfortunate incident) So if you would be so kind to elucidate this trick of yours, I'd be much obliged.

[NextGenCowboy]

Dungeon Siege is also sitting below that score. Low 70's.

[AWTEW]

Eh, still better than the Mass Effect 3 devs. They all went into the underground bunker after the Ending debacle.

 

To be fair, they were probably told too by Management and PR.

 

 

LOL, you need to play Pillars of Eternity first before saying that and you may will eat your words.

 

Pillars of eternity is Amazing ,truly, amazing. It actually deserves all the praise it gets. It's one of those games, that will possibly cause a turn, in the industry. Remember when everyone said fighting games were dead?and then SF4 and boom..

 

Divinity Original sin made business's curious in those types of rpgs again, and with Pillars growing success. We could see a turn around..

[CenturyCrow]

I do have respect for the devs. They're stuck between EA and fans. I have a lot of respect for all the creative people who have worked on this and other BioWare projects.

 

I especially admire the BioWare mods who have the patience and fortitude to sift through all these responses. Two thumbs up.

[blahblahblah]

Pillars of eternity is Amazing ,truly, amazing. It actually deserves all the praise it gets. It's one of those games, that will possibly cause a turn, in the industry. Remember when everyone said fighting games were dead?and then SF4 and boom..

 

Divinity Original sin made business's curious in those types of rpgs again, and with Pillars growing success. We could see a turn around..

 

If this game sold more 2 million units then yeah it will but I think not. These games sold less than 1 million since these games are catered to hardcore RPG fans than the mainstream.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

welp, D:OS didn't have fancy EA marketing campaign... i'm pretty sure it did well enough for Larian, otherwise they wouldn't expand (hello, new Canada studio) :3

[Helios969]

This is completely fair...

The issue with these forums are as follows.

So you don't like the coconut cake. That's a shame, but you can tell the baker, 'hey I'm a long time customer LOVED the chocolate cake you used to make... not a fan of the coconut, just isnt to my taste. I hope in the future you make some more chocolate cake.

 

The baker thinks, fair enough, I thought you might have liked coconut cake... something different, a lot of people do like the coconut cake, but I value my previous customers... next time i'll throw a bit more chocolate in.

 

Now thats fair enough and a lot of people do phrase they're criticism that way.

 

BUT a lot of people phrase it as such:

 

**** YOU and **** this ****** cake shop, you're just doing coconut cake to try and get the more casual cake eaters, you dont care about chocolate anymore and by extension YOU HATE ME! If you dont make a full chocolate cake next time im going to never buy you're products again!... JOKES im going to buy all of them and then ****** and moan some more.

 

Now after this maybe the the baker thinks 'wow what a dick head... but you know those coconut customers, they seemed to really like it, they didnt call me a ****. They did ask for lemon drizzle though, maybe i'll do that next time.

 

 

* DISCLAIMER:  Obviously this is just an example... In real life chocolate is the 'casual cakers' cake of choice.

 

Ohh also seriously try coconut cake with lemon drizzle, its really very good. (They're at their best when done as cupcakes, a little bit of lemon rind in the cake mix)   

Best BSN post ever!

[Quaddis]

Best BSN post ever!

 

Actually, that analogy is wrong.

It is not that they made coconut cake. They made chocolate cake and said that they improved it, while actually they used chocolate with less cacao and substitute milk instead of real milk, used artificial coloring and a lot of sugar to mask that, also it was removed from the oven sooner then it should be.
Chef decides that he will not sell whole cake, only slices and price 1/8th of the cake 1/4th of the price of what he would usually sell that said cake.

 

So when people who ate old awesome chocolate cake they asked why did chef do that? And said that cake is not really good at all and why does Chef is trying to cheat them, chef said that customers are ungrateful and entitled.

And then, there are people who didn't ate old cake and also eat a lot of hamburgers, frozen dishes, french fries, drink soda and polluted water said - OMG! That wuz awsum! You guys be dicks to chef! Why you no give respekt!? 

That is my friend correct analogy of what is happening here for last few years.

 

And what happened with Inquisition is -
Chef said, well I might have skimmed a little on cake but definitely not as much as you say that i did. 
But ill be a bigger man and Ill make an old chocolate cake again but ill add some special stuff you will really like and show you some nice pictures of that cake and you remembered how that old cake is delicious and how this chef was such a great cook and made such amazing cakes and how he was always smiling and how nice he was and you believed him and payed him in advance cause you love his cakes.

Then you get a cake, with a perfect shape, nice, dark chocolate frosting, it looks so delicious. And when you tried it it wasn't even chocolate cake. It was a coconut cake!!! With substitute milk, less cacao, artificial coloring and **** load of sugar.

Then again same people showed up - OMG! That wuz awsum coconut cake! You guys be dicks to chef! Why you no give respekt!? Go away!

While this people stayed at forums and not go away?

- And then old customers went to new bakery, but every time they passed near old bakery shop they gave middle finger to people working in it, and warned other customers that this guys are using bad ingredients and makes bad cakes, because they felt cheated and betrayed. Also..they lost a lot of money.

Modifié par Quaddis, 26 mars 2015 - 12:05 .

[Andraste_Reborn]

And then, there are people who didn't ate old cake and also eat a lot of hamburgers, frozen dishes, french fries, drink soda and polluted water said - OMG! That wuz awsum! You guys be dicks to chef! Why you no give respekt!?

 

I've eaten every cake BioWare has ever made except that first one nobody talks about and that one weird blue thing with the spikes on it that wasn't like their other cakes. And yet, I think the Inquisition cake is one of their best.

[Quaddis]

I've eaten every cake BioWare has ever made except that first one nobody talks about and that one weird blue thing with the spikes on it that wasn't like their other cakes. And yet, I think the Inquisition cake is one of their best.

 

You should stop eating crap stuff. They burned your taste buds.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

(...)

While this people stayed at forums and not go away?

- And then old customers went to new bakery, but every time they passed near old bakery shop they gave middle finger to people working in it, and warned other customers that this guys are using bad ingredients and makes bad cakes, because they felt cheated and betrayed. Also..they lost a lot of money.

nope, that's not it.

nostalgia

 

because once i ate a cake there that was sooooo awsum i almost cried and died of happiness. and i come back once in a while to look through the window if they have something like that but... better? all their cakes are the same, have tons of sugar and all those things i really don't like, i buy them and try to eat sometimes because i don't really care how they look (look can be deceiving, right?).

 

i changed bakery a long time ago but i still have the hope. because the pie was that awsum.

 

great, now i'm hungry.

[DanteYoda]

For me respect is earned, and its shown both ways.

 

That said developers are people like anyone else, the deserve to be treated fairly but when they show very little regard for their customers like Bioware has done, i feel respect is not earned or warranted..

 

I also feel devs should not be put on a pedestal like most fans do.

 

That said i agree development can be a hard job with horrible bosses, hours and deadlines, but isn't most jobs..

 

If AAA companies such as UBISOFT, Sony, EA actually showed some respect to us the customers (who pay their wages) occasionally instead of treating us as stupid ignorant money sponges... then maybe, just maybe the customers might treat them a bit better..

[Chiramu]

 

 

That said i agree development can be a hard job with horrible bosses, hours and deadlines, but isn't most jobs..

 

 

This is true, all jobs(every job unless you are CEO and sit on your arse 100% of the time eating donuts in your office) are hard and have stupid and sometimes unreasonable deadlines. 

[Innsmouth Dweller]

@Chiramu: are you disrespecting CEOs?