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[ComedicSociopathy]

Ahem o.o

Justinia started the war.

 

Lambert formally dissolved the Neverra Accord and planned to take military action against mages holed up in Andoral's Reach. He was the one that led the templars into warring against the newly freed mages. He and Adrian were the ones who wanted this to escalate into open warfare, not Justinia. 

[Br3admax]

Justinia broke the Accord, which is the issue he's bringing up, which allowed Lambert to claim it null and void. As such, he was able to go about his duty as Lord Seeker and protect the people from mages. Whether that is right or not is debatable, but Justinia actions caused this. 

[Xilizhra]

Justinia broke the Accord, which is the issue he's bringing up, which allowed Lambert to claim it null and void. As such, he was able to go about his duty as Lord Seeker and protect the people from mages. Whether that is right or not is debatable, but Justinia actions caused this. 

Justinia's actions were only ever a response to Lambert going steadily crazier.

[Hellion Rex]

Justinia broke the Accord, which is the issue he's bringing up, which allowed Lambert to claim it null and void. As such, he was able to go about his duty as Lord Seeker and protect the people from mages. Whether that is right or not is debatable, but Justinia actions caused this. 

She didn't break the Accord though. Lambert is the one who actually broke it cause Justinia pissed him off. She didn't do anything illegal.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Justinia broke the Accord, which is the issue he's bringing up, which allowed Lambert to claim it null and void. As such, he was able to go about his duty as Lord Seeker and protect the people from mages. Whether that is right or not is debatable, but Justinia actions caused this. 

Justinia sanctioned the meeting. Lambert was just a paranoid nutcase who hated mages. Justinia ordered no interference in the meeting so Lambert could not do anything there. He was a mage-hater and considering he let Meredith get away with everything, it's really his fault in retrospect.

[Boost32]

She didn't break the Accord though. Lambert is the one who actually broke it cause Justinia pissed him off. She didn't do anything illegal.

She sent assassins against her templars, is it not illegal?

[Br3admax]

She didn't break the Accord though. Lambert is the one who actually broke it cause Justinia pissed him off. She didn't do anything illegal.

Yes she did. She allowed mages to act/vote on the RoT without consulting the Seekers, who's duty by the accord is to guard and watch over Circle matters. .  

 

Justinia sanctioned the meeting. Lambert was just a paranoid nutcase who hated mages. Justinia ordered no interference in the meeting so Lambert could not do anything there. He was a mage-hater and considering he let Meredith get away with everything, it's really his fault in retrospect.

Cool. Justinia can order whatever she wants, the point of what was stated is that she infact did this, so it's nice to see and admission. 

[Xilizhra]

She sent assassins against her templars, is it not illegal?

Templars who had engaged in numerous blatantly illegal activities.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Templars who had engaged in numerous blatantly illegal activities.

Don't forget how even after the Templars started killing the mages, the largely symbolic vote at Andoral's reach was still 50/50. That pretty much confirms that had the Templars not stopped the vote, independence never would have passed.

[AresKeith]

Of course people (obvious people) would turn thing into a Templar/Mage argument 

[thesuperdarkone2]

She sent assassins against her templars, is it not illegal?

Not when said templars are blatantly supporting insubordiation and outright treason against her.

[The Baconer]

She sent assassins against her templars, is it not illegal?

 

That certainly was a bad move. Why not just cap Lambert by that point.

 

Thank God for dead Seekers.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Thank God for dead Seekers.

 

Purging the old Seeker order was the only good thing Lucius did.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Cassandra and the Inquisitor have an interesting (and rather sad) talk with Ameridan. 

 

   

 

Whatcha think? 

[TheKomandorShepard]

She didn't break the Accord though. Lambert is the one who actually broke it cause Justinia pissed him off. She didn't do anything illegal.

She sent leliana to kill templars and free mages Justinia betrayed templars her actions caused mage-templar war lambert prevented it until she did her thing.

 

 

Not when said templars are blatantly supporting insubordiation and outright treason against her.

Only treason was done by divine.

[The Baconer]

Cassandra and the Inquisitor have an interesting (and rather sad) talk with Ameridan. 

 

Whatcha think? 

 

Yeah, I saw that earlier. Only cemented my hate further. They probably haven't been an organization to be proud of for centuries.

 

Let's have Cassandra work on something more lasting and productive.

[AresKeith]

Yeah, I saw that earlier. Only cemented my hate further. They probably haven't been an organization to be proud of for centuries.

 

Let's have Cassandra work on something more lasting and productive.

 

I saw it as more of bringing them back to what they should've been

[ComedicSociopathy]

She sent leliana to kill templars and free mages Justinia betrayed templars her actions caused mage-templar war lambert prevented it until she did her thing.

 

 

Only treason was done by divine.

 

The Templars are bound to service the Chantry and the Divine was the current leader of the Chantry. By opposing her edicts they were committing treason by definition. 

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

I saw it as more of bringing them back to what they should've been

 

With the entire old order almost destroyed, it would hopefully make remaking the Seekers easier. Clean slate and all. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Lambert formally dissolved the Neverra Accord

Ah.

I never denied he didn't declare war.

I simply said he didn't cause it, in fact even according to Cole it was what he wanted to avoid.

He wanted to stop the collapse, keep the mountain from crumbling and crushing the world with it.

[AresKeith]

With the entire old order almost destroyed, it would hopefully make remaking the Seekers easier. Clean slate and all. 

 

Yep, It pretty much is starting over with a clear slate

[TheKomandorShepard]

The Templars are bound to service the Chantry and the Divine was the current leader of the Chantry. By opposing her edicts they were committing treason by definition. 

The templars are bound to protect world from mages divine incompetence and outright idiotic "edicts" endangered world not mention outright supporting mage rebelion.Also divine authority isn't ultimate as it is shown templars can refuse follow divine orders if are idiotic and they were.

[The Baconer]

I saw it as more of bringing them back to what they should've been

 

Well, as much as I adore Cassandra, I am honestly not confident in her ability to reform them for any lasting amount of time. When questioned as to what exactly she's going to do to change them, she answers "I don't know". 

That was their last chance. "I don't know" doesn't cut it for me.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Of course people (obvious people) would turn thing into a Templar/Mage argument 

 

Tell me about it. That's why I am not very fond of starting threads about anything lore related. It either devolves into a fangirling / fanboying thread or a mage vs templar thread or elves vs humans thread....

 

I just wanted to discuss Ameridan and the lore revelations we got from the DLC....

 

I suppose I should list them down...

• Avvar have a close interconnected relationship with the benign Fade spirits that are around them, whom they call their gods. It is an interesting take on barbarians living in tune with the nature of the land and what have you.
• We get more information that points us to the and supports the idea that godlike creatures are those that have been possessed or bonded with a powerful Fade spirit. Hakkon and a codex on the Forgotten One shows this.
• Ameridan worshiped both the Creators and Andraste. This is most likely due to the fact Andraste and her alliance with Shartan (I think there have been more than an alliance) was responsible to topple the dominion of the Imperium, granting freedom to the elves. It would make sense that she would be viewed by the Elves as some form divine figure. 
• Ameridan came from a Dalish Clan that primarily worshiped Ghilan'nain. I think that every Dalish clan would primarily worship one elven deity and then the rest. 
• Ameridan himself was not a Seeker but he worked with and lead them, suggesting that the Seeker employed and willingly welcomed mages who wanted to help rid the world of demons and maleficarum once. 
• The Templar Order was formed from the idea that one can consume lyrium to fight demonic forces instead of going through the far more rigorous and tougher Seeker training. 
• Ameridan was against the Rite of Tranquility be used for anything other than creating new Seekers, since in his words "Because it is easy, and killing is not, its potential for abuse is great."
• Ameridan had access to time magic which was capable of slowing his aging down for about 800 years. He even states that there are magics that can delay the passage of time but not inevitability of death. This suggests Elves in the time of the Dales are aware of some form of Uthenara.
• Ameridan's friendship with Drakon was a key element in the human-elven alliance which promptly was discarded by the elves after Ameridan went missing, and by the humans after the elves refused to help them with the second Blight. 
• Racial unity is far better than racial conflict. Elven-human alliance was able to create and sustain Orlais and the Dales, well, at least until it fell. 
• Empress Celene, for all her faults, encourages the development of scholarship via the University of Orlais which is how we managed to stumble onto all this in the first place. 
• Fen'Harel is either typically ignored or forgotten my many. Even Fen'Harel himself says so. LOL. 
• Dreamers are affected by the presence of powerful spirits / demons around them. The funny thing is that Solas does not appear affected by this even though he is a Dreamer, which means have must have some spirit binding of his own going or something else. 

[Urazz]

Justinia broke the Accord, which is the issue he's bringing up, which allowed Lambert to claim it null and void. As such, he was able to go about his duty as Lord Seeker and protect the people from mages. Whether that is right or not is debatable, but Justinia actions caused this. 

Actually, I think Justinia didn't break the accord and the problem was that the templar/mage war would've happened no matter what she did due to extremists on both sides wanting a war to develop.  Did her decisions help cause the templar/mage war to start up?  Yes, but she was more the minor party in this as the war was pretty much caused by the extremists like Merdith, Lambert, etc.

 

Justinia wasn't advocating for the Mages to disband the Circles she was advocating for them to meet up to decide it.  Templars cracking down on the mages too much was what caused the templar/mage war and even then the vote was practically 50/50.  If Lambert had listened to Justinia, do you think that the mages would have voted to disband the circles?  No not really as most mages just wanted more rights and freedoms which in some Circles was sorely needed.