875 réponses à ce sujet

[Qun00]

Ameridan is the best Inquisitor... In Amerida!

[AresKeith]

Ameridan is the best Inquisitor... In Amerida!

 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Actually, I think Justinia didn't break the accord and the problem was that the templar/mage war would've happened no matter what she did due to extremists on both sides wanting a war to develop.  Did her decisions help cause the templar/mage war to start up?  Yes, but she was more the minor party in this as the war was pretty much caused by the extremists like Merdith, Lambert, etc.

 

Justinia wasn't advocating for the Mages to disband the Circles she was advocating for them to meet up to decide it.  Templars cracking down on the mages too much was what caused the templar/mage war and even then the vote was practically 50/50.  If Lambert had listened to Justinia, do you think that the mages would have voted to disband the circles?  No not really as most mages just wanted more rights and freedoms which in some Circles was sorely needed.

Not rly war was caused by her in first place if not her lambert would handle mages and even put down rebel mages it was her who freed mages that then voted rebellion not to mention she send assassin to kill templars and free mages what was betrayal of the templar order.Conclave in first place shouldn't be about separating from chantry and another matter that mages refused to hand over person that was suspected of murder.

 

So in the end she not only freed mages endangering whole thedas but also betrayed templars making them to leave chantry.

[Andres Hendrix]

Not necessarily. Zeus and Thor were gods even through they lacked omnipotence and were constantly getting tricked or overpowered in their myths. Being a god has more to do with being worshiped and in some way different or above mortals then having flat out omnipotence. Unless of course your talking about "God", in which case omnipotence may be a prerequisite for a being to deserve the term. 

Jove was never tricked, he swallowed his wife Metis, which gave him ultimate wisdom. Which is why Jove is associated with the Oak tree, it was a symbol of wisdom for the Greeks and Romans. Jove swallowing his first wife, is basically the explanation in the myths as to what kept him as the ruler of Olympus. He matched his strength with wisdom, unlike his father. Also, there is no myth of Jove being overpowered, he gets in trouble with his wife/sister Hera for having his way with so many flower maidens, and turning them into cows and shrubbery, but he is never overpowered. If Jove were overpowered by another in one of the myths, he would have lost his position as ruler of Olympus, that does not show up in Greco-Roman myth.

[Addai]

 

Tell me about it. That's why I am not very fond of starting threads about anything lore related. It either devolves into a fangirling / fanboying thread or a mage vs templar thread or elves vs humans thread....

 

I just wanted to discuss Ameridan and the lore revelations we got from the DLC....

 

*snip*

 

Thanks for the list. Even though I'm bothered by things in this story (mainly the naive moralism), it's good to see the things we learned summarized.

[Deebo305]

Ameridan is the best Inquisitor... In Amerida!

Get outta here Bandit Keith

Spoiler

Obligatory Bandit Keith montage

[TEWR]

Ameridan is the best Inquisitor... In Amerida!

 

Bandit Keith! You're here!

 

You're also Canadian, but I think we'll let that slide for now.

[TEWR]

 

Avvar have a close interconnected relationship with the benign Fade spirits that are around them, whom they call their gods. It is an interesting take on barbarians living in tune with the nature of the land and what have you.

 

The thing that bothers me about this is that Thane Sun-Hair says the Gods belong in the realm of dreams and do not normally visit the mortal world. In fact, it's not something that happens all that much to begin with. The entire premise was also that bonding with the gods was deemed unnatural as it kept them from being who they really are.

 

Yet Avvarian lore has the gods seemingly within Thedas itself, as beings that are present in the mortal realm at all times and do things, like the moving of Belenas to the heavens where the Lady dwells, or Korth's removal of his heart, or how Korth carved the caves for the Avvar.

 

I'm not saying it's a bad idea for them to view powerful Fade spirits as gods, or at least some of their gods being such.. I just wish it didn't necessarily conflict with what we had already from the previous games.

 

There are a few ways I can make sense of it (the Maetasherian War Axe's description being one) but I wonder yet again how much Bioware thought this through.

 

Ameridan had access to time magic which was capable of slowing his aging down for about 800 years. He even states that there are magics that can delay the passage of time but not inevitability of death. This suggests Elves in the time of the Dales are aware of some form of Uthenara.

 

 

Uthenara's something else. It's the long sleep, the one that many Elves didn't wake from.

 

But yes, it's implying that the Elves of the Dales used such magic as a means to prolong their life until they found they needed to enter Uthenara, or at least it was an avenue of study that might have been forgotten following the Exalted March of the Dales.

[Heimdall]

The thing that bothers me about this is that Thane Sun-Hair says the Gods belong in the realm of dreams and do not normally visit the mortal world. In fact, it's not something that happens all that much to begin with. The entire premise was also that bonding with the gods was deemed unnatural as it kept them from being who they really are.
 
Yet Avvarian lore has the gods seemingly within Thedas itself, as beings that are present in the mortal realm at all times and do things, like the moving of Belenas to the heavens where the Lady dwells, or Korth's removal of his heart, or how Korth carved the caves for the Avvar.
 
I'm not saying it's a bad idea for them to view powerful Fade spirits as gods, or at least some of their gods being such.. I just wish it didn't necessarily conflict with what we had already from the previous games.
 
There are a few ways I can make sense of it (the Maetasherian War Axe's description being one) but I wonder yet again how much Bioware thought this through.

A problem, but maybe the Avaar don't view staying in the Fade as an obstacle to acting on the physical plane.

Alternative;y, the Avaar might not take their own legends literally *shrug*
 
 

Uthenara's something else. It's the long sleep, the one that many Elves didn't wake from.
 
But yes, it's implying that the Elves of the Dales used such magic as a means to prolong their life until they found they needed to enter Uthenara, or at least it was an avenue of study that might have been forgotten following the Exalted March of the Dales.

Not really, it seems what Ameridan did was slow time itself to keep him and Hakkon in stasis. It seems he had to remain stationary to maintain it, I don't think this was something the elves of the dales would have used and as far as I know they never recovered Uthenera.

I would accept that time manipulation was probably a line of research the elves of the dales explored though.

[Steelcan]

Jove was never tricked, he swallowed his wife Metis, which gave him ultimate wisdom. Which is why Jove is associated with the Oak tree, it was a symbol of wisdom for the Greeks and Romans. Jove swallowing his first wife, is basically the explanation in the myths as to what kept him as the ruler of Olympus. He matched his strength with wisdom, unlike his father. Also, there is no myth of Jove being overpowered, he gets in trouble with his wife/sister Hera for having his way with so many flower maidens, and turning them into cows and shrubbery, but he is never overpowered. If Jove were overpowered by another in one of the myths, he would have lost his position as ruler of Olympus, that does not show up in Greco-Roman myth.

if you're gonna call him Jove, just go the whole nine yards and call him Iupiter, other wise I think Zeus works fine

[Andres Hendrix]

if you're gonna call him Jove, just go the whole nine yards and call him Iupiter, other wise I think Zeus works fine

It's the same God, it is one of the common angelicized English translations that show up in Ovid, Virgil etc. I studied classics and paid particular attention to the early and late Roman Empire. That is why I usually end up spelling it Jove. Zeus, Jove, Jupiter are all the same; just imagine, someone does not hold the same preference as you, and does not have to either.

[Knight of Dane]

Was it stated that he worshipped the creators and Andraste as seperate deities? The way he talked at the shrine made it sound like he worshipped Andraste as a creator god.

 

Not sure if it makes a difference, but that's how it felt to me.

[myahele]

Since Ameridan was also a seeker doesn't that mean that he also went through the rite(s) most seekers had to go through? Meaning he was also touched by a spirit, although being a mage means that he can remain in close contact with said spirit.

 

Didn't he also say something about his "spirit companion" helping him? If the Dalish elves had a way to prolong life then I wonder if spirits are involved? Kinda like what Zathrian, but without curse 

[Br3admax]

It's the same God, it is one of the common angelicized English translations that show up in Ovid, Virgil etc. I studied classics and paid particular attention to the early and late Roman Empire. That is why I usually end up spelling it Jove. Zeus, Jove, Jupiter are all the same; just imagine, someone does not hold the same preference as you, and does not have to either.

He's implying that you're just using an archaic name just to show that you know said archaic name, and I happen to agree with him. 

[AresKeith]

Since Ameridan was also a seeker doesn't that mean that he also went through the rite(s) most seekers had to go through? Meaning he was also touched by a spirit, although being a mage means that he can remain in close contact with said spirit.

Didn't he also say something about his "spirit companion" helping him? If the Dalish elves had a way to prolong life then I wonder if spirits are involved? Kinda like what Zathrian, but without curse

I just figured him being a mage means he didn't have to do the rite

Though I do wonder about his spirit companion now

[Knight of Dane]

Since Ameridan was also a seeker doesn't that mean that he also went through the rite(s) most seekers had to go through? Meaning he was also touched by a spirit, although being a mage means that he can remain in close contact with said spirit.

 

Didn't he also say something about his "spirit companion" helping him? If the Dalish elves had a way to prolong life then I wonder if spirits are involved? Kinda like what Zathrian, but without curse 

 

He mentions the spirit companion, yes, similar to the Avvar.

 

I don't think we know when exactly the seekers started the practice, maybe they were originally just regular warriors and mages.

 

My guess is that spirit companions was something that was not unseen in his time, so not just Avvar had that practice, maybe the elves did too.

 

So, maybe the seeker rite was inspired by his psoessed condition?

[trevelyan_shep]

But, wait, he said that he wasn't a Seeker... So he wouldn't need to go through all of that since he isn't one.

[Andres Hendrix]

He's implying that you're just using an archaic name just to show that you know said archaic name, and I happen to agree with him. 

Oh please, go pretend to be a mind reader somewhere else, this is silly, Jove shows up in many translations and anyone who understands basic Greco-Roman myth knows that Jove, Jupiter and Zeus are all the same. As for archaic, here you go, "landica tu!"

[Heimdall]

Was it stated that he worshipped the creators and Andraste as seperate deities? The way he talked at the shrine made it sound like he worshipped Andraste as a creator god.

Not sure if it makes a difference, but that's how it felt to me.

That was the impression I got as well. It sounded like he believed the Maker had elevated Andraste to the Creator pantheon (With the Maker presumably acting as a distant over-deity, a bit like Tolkein's mythos).

Kinda reminded me of the Elder Scrolls and Talos.

[Br3admax]

Oh please, go pretend to be a mind reader somewhere else, this is silly, Jove shows up in many translations and anyone who understands basic Greco-Roman myth knows that Jove, Jupiter and Zeus are all the same. As for archaic, here you go, "landica tu!"

Point, missing it. The fact that the name exists somewhere doesn't really negate what was said. In fact, this response only proved the point really. 

[Andres Hendrix]

Point, missing it. The fact that the name exists somewhere doesn't really negate what was said. In fact, this response only proved the point really. 

The fact that it shows up in common translations used today, like in A.D. Melville's translation of Ovid's Metaporphoses (the Oxford World Classic edition; 2008), makes you seem quite silly, yes. It shows up on pages, 4-9,16, 18-19, 21, 23, 26, 33, 35-7, 49-50, 58-62, 82, 93, 95-6, 109, 114-15, 124, 163, 174,190-3, 199, 208, 212, 229, 232, 255, 275, 294, 312, 343, 350, 363, 376-8. Honestly, go peddle your semantics somewhere else, you are being ridiculous.

[In Exile]

He mentions the spirit companion, yes, similar to the Avvar.

I don't think we know when exactly the seekers started the practice, maybe they were originally just regular warriors and mages.

My guess is that spirit companions was something that was not unseen in his time, so not just Avvar had that practice, maybe the elves did too.

So, maybe the seeker rite was inspired by his psoessed condition?

There's no suggestion a mage can't be a seeker - just that a mage who fails to be a seeker becomes tranquil.

[TK514]

The fact that it shows up in common translations used today, like in A.D. Melville's translation of Ovid's Metaporphoses (the Oxford World Classic edition; 2008), makes you seem quite silly, yes. It shows up on pages, 4-9,16, 18-19, 21, 23, 26, 33, 35-7, 49-50, 58-62, 82, 93, 95-6, 109, 114-15, 124, 163, 174,190-3, 199, 208, 212, 229, 232, 255, 275, 294, 312, 343, 350, 363, 376-8. Honestly, go peddle your symantics somewhere else, you are being ridiculous.

 

Doing an excellent job of proving their point for them.

[Steelcan]

Doing an excellent job of proving their point for them.

should I point out he misspelled semantics?

[LPPrince]

 

Tell me about it. That's why I am not very fond of starting threads about anything lore related. It either devolves into a fangirling / fanboying thread or a mage vs templar thread or elves vs humans thread....

 

I just wanted to discuss Ameridan and the lore revelations we got from the DLC....

 

I suppose I should list them down...

• Avvar have a close interconnected relationship with the benign Fade spirits that are around them, whom they call their gods. It is an interesting take on barbarians living in tune with the nature of the land and what have you.
• We get more information that points us to the and supports the idea that godlike creatures are those that have been possessed or bonded with a powerful Fade spirit. Hakkon and a codex on the Forgotten One shows this.
• Ameridan worshiped both the Creators and Andraste. This is most likely due to the fact Andraste and her alliance with Shartan (I think there have been more than an alliance) was responsible to topple the dominion of the Imperium, granting freedom to the elves. It would make sense that she would be viewed by the Elves as some form divine figure. 
• Ameridan came from a Dalish Clan that primarily worshiped Ghilan'nain. I think that every Dalish clan would primarily worship one elven deity and then the rest. 
• Ameridan himself was not a Seeker but he worked with and lead them, suggesting that the Seeker employed and willingly welcomed mages who wanted to help rid the world of demons and maleficarum once. 
• The Templar Order was formed from the idea that one can consume lyrium to fight demonic forces instead of going through the far more rigorous and tougher Seeker training. 
• Ameridan was against the Rite of Tranquility be used for anything other than creating new Seekers, since in his words "Because it is easy, and killing is not, its potential for abuse is great."
• Ameridan had access to time magic which was capable of slowing his aging down for about 800 years. He even states that there are magics that can delay the passage of time but not inevitability of death. This suggests Elves in the time of the Dales are aware of some form of Uthenara.
• Ameridan's friendship with Drakon was a key element in the human-elven alliance which promptly was discarded by the elves after Ameridan went missing, and by the humans after the elves refused to help them with the second Blight. 
• Racial unity is far better than racial conflict. Elven-human alliance was able to create and sustain Orlais and the Dales, well, at least until it fell. 
• Empress Celene, for all her faults, encourages the development of scholarship via the University of Orlais which is how we managed to stumble onto all this in the first place. 
• Fen'Harel is either typically ignored or forgotten my many. Even Fen'Harel himself says so. LOL. 
• Dreamers are affected by the presence of powerful spirits / demons around them. The funny thing is that Solas does not appear affected by this even though he is a Dreamer, which means have must have some spirit binding of his own going or something else. 

 

 

Thank you for this. I played Jaws of Hakkon but its nice to read a listing of the important bits to gleam off of the conversation with AmeriDanTheMan