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[Insaner Robot]

The tale of Iloren surely illustrates In Exile's point. Iloren had no recorded involvement outside of keeping his clan from the blight and protecting them from Darkspawn. He and his tale would be known only to the Dalish, not to the rest of thedas.

[LobselVith8]

The tale of Iloren surely illustrates In Exile's point. Iloren had no recorded involvement outside of keeping his clan from the blight and protecting them from Darkspawn. He and his tale would be known only to the Dalish, not to the rest of thedas.

 

I'm pretty sure that Andrastian humans wouldn't have many tales of elven heroes (they don't even seem to care enough to remember the ones who do exist), but that doesn't change the absence of Dalish heroes in a narrative where the main character can be Dalish and is able to interact with other Dalish, which is the point.

[Vit246]

Because the Chantry is one of the major institutions of its closests neighbor? Not just a potential enemy, but a potential ally? Having their own religion doesn't mean they shouldn't seek to live harmoniously with others, and it certainly doesn't mean they should ban other faiths like they did.

You're putting the burden of diplomatic relations on the elves over the Chantry and Orlais?

[Heimdall]

You're putting the burden of diplomatic relations on the Dalish?

When they actively spurn relations with other nations and deny aid to their neighbors when they are threatened with total annihilation, you're damn right I place he burden of the break down in relations on them.

[leaguer of one]

You're putting the burden of diplomatic relations on the elves over the Chantry and Orlais?

Diplomacy is a 2 way street. Say what you want about the Chantry but the Dalish of that time did not even try for peace.

[Uccio]

Because the Chantry is one of the major institutions of its closests neighbor? Not just a potential enemy, but a potential ally? Having their own religion doesn't mean they shouldn't seek to live harmoniously with others, and it certainly doesn't mean they should ban other faiths like they did.

You do realize that the Dales are much closer to the Frostbacks than most of Orlais, right? That they were threatened too?

 

Having their own religion means it is their own religion. There is no need to go and alter your beliefs just to kiss someones ass. If the chantry is not willing to incorporate elven pantheon to their doctrine I see no reason for the elves to do it either. Besides, religious doctrines are usually rather strict, I doubt chantry would have settled for anything less than total abandoning elven faith. Banning andrastian faith fits perfectly to the attitude of the chantry, why settle for anything less?

 

As for the threat, elves were more mobile than orlesian. They could have maneuvered giving the avvar god room to meet the orlesians first. Then later they could have supported them, just enough to keep the hakkon at bay.

[TK514]

Ah yes. The exact proper response to a possessed dragon rampaging through your country is to move your army out of the way in the hopes it exits your territory without slaughtering everything in its path. What a brilliant strategy. Nice to know civilian casualties are ok with you as long as someone you don't like gets hurt, too.

[Nefla]

My first inquisitor was a male elf mage who was open to both the creators and the maker...creepy. This original inquisitor didn't have red hair and a Sylaise vallaslin right?

[Addai]

Diplomacy is a 2 way street. Say what you want about the Chantry but the Dalish of that time did not even try for peace.

We're told in the Emerald Graves what sort of "overtures of peace" these were- templars and missionaries.

[Heimdall]

Having their own religion means it is their own religion. There is no need to go and alter your beliefs just to kiss someones ass. If the chantry is not willing to incorporate elven pantheon to their doctrine I see no reason for the elves to do it either. Besides, religious doctrines are usually rather strict, I doubt chantry would have settled for anything less than total abandoning elven faith. Banning andrastian faith fits perfectly to the attitude of the chantry, why settle for anything less?

They don't need to change their religion, but allowing those who wanted to to follow Ameridan's syncretic faith would have had a positive effect on relations between the two countries. Instead, they outlawed chantries and exiled missionaries, which says more about the insecurities of the Dales' rulers than what the average elf wanted.

As for the threat, elves were more mobile than orlesian. They could have maneuvered giving the avvar god room to meet the orlesians first. Then later they could have supported them, just enough to keep the hakkon at bay.

More maneuverable? Are you kidding? That's baseless bullshit, you really think they could move their entire country out of the way? Or that Hakkon would make a beeline for the Orlesians instead of going after the elves? The Avvar don't care, their all just lowlanders to them.

[Xilizhra]

They don't need to change their religion, but allowing those who wanted to to follow Ameridan's syncretic faith would have had a positive effect on relations between the two countries. Instead, they outlawed chantries and exiled missionaries, which says more about the insecurities of the Dales' rulers than what the average elf wanted.

The problem is that the Andrastians are inherently aggressive towards anyone who follows "false gods." If they were given an inch, they'd soon try to take a mile.

[Heimdall]

The problem is that the Andrastians are inherently aggressive towards anyone who follows "false gods." If they were given an inch, they'd soon try to take a mile.

If they're converting by force, that'd be a problem but if they're finding willing converts then that speaks more to how satisfied the elves are with their faith than any overreaching on the Chantry's part.

[Xilizhra]

If they're converting by force, that'd be a problem but if they're finding willing converts then that speaks more to how satisfied the elves are with their faith than any overreaching on the Chantry's part.

And then they start locking up mages and demanding that other elves convert. It's a slippery slope whenever you're dealing with an expansionist religion.

[Addai]

They don't need to change their religion, but allowing those who wanted to to follow Ameridan's syncretic faith would have had a positive effect on relations between the two countries. Instead, they outlawed chantries and exiled missionaries, which says more about the insecurities of the Dales' rulers than what the average elf wanted.

Proselytizing religions don't mix well with non-proselytizing. Plenty of RL examples. But there already are whole groups of syncretic elves- those like Ameridan could go to the alienages if their native culture bothered them so much.

[Uccio]

They don't need to change their religion, but allowing those who wanted to to follow Ameridan's syncretic faith would have had a positive effect on relations between the two countries. Instead, they outlawed chantries and exiled missionaries, which says more about the insecurities of the Dales' rulers than what the average elf wanted.

 

So did the orlesians allow elven missionaries in their cities? If not then it would be rather one eyed view on matter don´t you think?

 

More maneuverable? Are you kidding? That's baseless bullshit, you really think they could move their entire country out of the way? Or that Hakkon would make a beeline for the Orlesians instead of going after the elves? The Avvar don't care, their all just lowlanders to them.

 

Elves, at least as much has been shown, have been rather mobile compared for instance to the heavily armored orlesians. And to move people is not the same thing as moving a country.

[Heimdall]

Proselytizing religions don't mix well with non-proselytizing. Plenty of RL examples. But there already are whole groups of syncretic elves- those like Ameridan could go to the alienages if their native culture bothered them so much.

So they should be exiled from their homeland for daring to have a difference of religious opinion?

[Addai]

So they should be exiled from their homeland for daring to have a difference of religious opinion?

I said if it bothered them. I suppose they could stay and lead a social crusade to change everyone around them. That always turns out well.

[Heimdall]

So did the orlesians allow elven missionaries in their cities? If not then it would be rather one eyed view on matter don´t you think?

The elven religion is not a proselytizing one, they have no interest in converting non-elves as non-elves are not acknowledged in their faith. They have no missionaries.
 

Elves, at least as much has been shown, have been rather mobile compared for instance to the heavily armored orlesians. And to move people is not the same thing as moving a country.

As much as has been shown? What, the Dalish? They're nomads, the elves of the Dales were not.

[Heimdall]

I said if it bothered them. I suppose they could stay and lead a social crusade to change everyone around them. That always turns out well.

I only ever said they and the Chantry should be tolerated, not that all elves need to convert or that Ameridan's type should try and make everyone hold their beliefs. They can coexist.

[Addai]

I only ever said they and the Chantry should be tolerated, not that all elves need to convert or that Ameridan's type should try and make everyone hold their beliefs. They can coexist.

What I said about proselytizing and non-proselytizing applies. Co-existence in such cases rarely works out well over the long term.

[Heimdall]

What I said about proselytizing and non-proselytizing applies. Co-existence in such cases rarely works out well over the long term.

Would there be tensions? Yes, but forced religious conformity likewise escalates and rarely ends well in the long term. And an Andrastian presence within the Dales might have kept them from being so alienated from their neighbors as a whole.

[Addai]

Would there be tensions? Yes, but forced religious conformity likewise escalates and rarely ends well in the long term. And an Andrastian presence within the Dales might have kept them from being so alienated from their neighbors as a whole.

More likely the opposite.

[Heimdall]

More likely the opposite.

A substantial portion of the population following a form of Andrastrian faith would have made it harder for their opponents to frame the elves as a whole as a quintessentially opposed other and easier for those inclined to find common ground.

It's certainly be a step up from setting themselves up to be hated like they did.

[Addai]

A substantial portion of the population following a form of Andrastrian faith would have made it harder for their opponents to frame the elves as a whole as a quintessentially opposed other and easier for those inclined to find common ground.

It's certainly be a step up from setting themselves up to be hated like they did.

Did that work for the alienages?

[Colonelkillabee]

Did that work for the alienages?

I think we have enough real life examples to know that no matter how much minorities try to be considered one of a certain group, when it comes down to it, they're always the outsiders and the first to be accused. The Dalish having an andrastian presence would have done absolutely diddly squat.