According to the Seekers, conveniently after the Accord was ended. And, as we have learned, there is no reason to trust the Seekers.
I honestly don't understand why they bothered with destroying that Circle. The Rivani love their seers and having a bunch of Seekers kill them all probably didn't do much for the Seekers reputation there. Really should of been focusing on destroying Andoral's Reach then attacking a Circle in some backwater country.
I honestly don't understand why they bothered with destroying that Circle. The Rivani love their seers and having a bunch of Seekers kill them all probably didn't do much for the Seekers representation there. Really should of been focusing on destroying Andoral's Reach then attacking a Circle in some backwater country.
Also note that, as per WoT, the Seers were permitted to practice their craft and take apprentices in return for helping the Templars when called upon.
So, in the end the Seers probably did more for the Templars than the Seekers did. Ironic.
I think the Seeker argument would be that the deal in place with Seers should have never been implemented in the first place.
I find it hard to sympathize with a culture who views abominations as a natural hazard
They checked on the Circle.
Circle was breaking every rule ever written.
They told them to abide by the rules.
Rivainis refused.
They tried to force them to abide by the rules.
Rivainis resisted.
Seekers killed them all.
According to the Seekers, conveniently after the Accord was ended. And, as we have learned, there is no reason to trust the Seekers.
Also note that, as per WoT, the Seers were permitted to practice their craft and take apprentices in return for helping the Templars when called upon.
So, in the end the Seers probably did more for the Templars than the Seekers did. Ironic.
When the Seers are the very problems that require solving...
Also note that, as per WoT, the Seers were permitted to practice their craft and take apprentices in return for helping the Templars when called upon.
So, in the end the Seers probably did more for the Templars than the Seekers did. Ironic.
My only rationale for this stupidity is that the Seekers were being lead by Lucius who had probably joined up with the Order of Fiery Promise by then. So, the whole thing could of been motivated by insane cultists.
They checked on the Circle.
Circle was breaking every rule ever written.
They told them to abide by the rules.
Rivainis refused.
They tried to force them to abide by the rules.
Rivainis resisted.
Seekers killed them all.
Also note that, as per WoT, the Seers were permitted to practice their craft and take apprentices in return for helping the Templars when called upon.
No rules broken as per Rivaini law, which the Seekers consequently had no real jurisdiction within given their break from the Chantry :>
I think the Seeker argument would be that the deal in place with Seers should have never been implemented in the first place.
When the Seers are the very problems that require solving...
According to what data.
*scoffs* It was a eyesore, a affront to holy mandate for generations.
It was long coming, the local Templars disregarded their divine duty and thus it became another forces concern.
That circle was an abomination in Thedas and it was destroyed for it.
k
According to what data.
I don't think its particularly contentious that after the split from the Chantry, the Templars and Seekers would seek out the Circle that had been flouting traditional Andrastian practices for centuries.
The local templars may have no issue with the arrangement, but I doubt the other various chapters of the Seekers and Templars were that sympathetic
Also note that, as per WoT, the Seers were permitted to practice their craft and take apprentices in return for helping the Templars when called upon.
No rules broken as per Rivaini law, which the Seekers consequently had no real jurisdiction within given their break from the Chantry :>
According to what data.
k
According to the laws of the Circle to which the Seekers were still beholden to at the time since the annulment occurred before the dissolution of the Nevarran Accord.
We could, of course, also discuss whether, regardless of jurisdiction the Seers are the threat Templars should protect people from but we would be discussing what constitutes a threat before we were half way through the debate.
They checked on the Circle.
Circle was breaking every rule ever written.
They told them to abide by the rules.
Rivainis refused.
They tried to force them to abide by the rules.
Rivainis resisted.
Seekers killed them all.
Those rules were put in place because most abominations were dangerous monsters that destroy everything they touch. The seers on the other hand have been benevolent and accepted by the Rivani long before the Chantry showed up. Why get into a pissing match with a bunch of people who aren't even doing anything hostile when you could actually learn from them? Furthermore, they are perfectly willing to work alongside the local Templars to deal with any problems that come up.
It looks to me that the Seekers were destroying a pretty stable relationship between the mages and templars in Rivain for no practical reason other then the Rivaini were breaking a rule that was already being ignored for generations without incident.
According to the laws of the Circle to which the Seekers were still beholden to at the time since the annulment occurred before the dissolution of the Nevarran Accord.
Is it impossible to think that perhaps the Seers in Rivain were given the same type of leeway that the Mortalitasi are given in Nevarra? I mean, Cassandra's uncle seemed to live outside the Circle and was even able to raise children on his own.
The Chantry has been frequently shown to give individual and groups of mages a lot of freedoms that run counter to their own rules. From what the WOT tells us the Seers were given the same privileges.
I don't think its particularly contentious that after the split from the Chantry, the Templars and Seekers would seek out the Circle that had been flouting traditional Andrastian practices for centuries.
The local templars may have no issue with the arrangement, but I doubt the other various chapters of the Seekers and Templars were that sympathetic
Whether or not it was contentious isn't really the point, just that they were wrong and scummy for doing it. As is their standard operating procedure.
According to the laws of the Circle to which the Seekers were still beholden to at the time since the annulment occurred before the dissolution of the Nevarran Accord.
The date on the note is wrong. The note itself references the rebellion and the events at the White Spire. If 9:40 were the actual date they would be referring to things that happen in the future. Also, in Asunder, word of the annulment reaches the mages after they've already moved to Andoral's Reach. This confirms that the Seekers who ordered the Annulment were belligerents from a rogue organization.
We could, of course, also discuss whether, regardless of jurisdiction the Seers are the threat Templars should protect people from but we would be discussing what constitutes a threat before we were half way through the debate.
According to the actual law, as decided by the Chantry and the Rivaini government, no. I see no reason to debate it at without firsthand accounts or data suggesting they were a threat that required such a response.
Those rules were put in place because most abominations were dangerous monsters that destroy everything they touch. The seers on the other hand have been benevolent and accepted by the Rivani long before the Chantry showed up. Why get into a pissing match with a bunch of people who aren't even doing anything hostile when you could actually learn from them? Furthermore, they are perfectly willing to work alongside the local Templars to deal with any problems that come up.
It looks to me that the Seekers were destroying a pretty stable relationship between the mages and templars in Rivain for no practical reason other then the Rivaini were breaking a rule that was already being ignored for generations without incident.
We don't really have enough information to determine just how dangerous a Seer is. The Rivaini could simply be more willing to tolerate Abominations going on a rampage than people from the rest of the continent which has some basis in lore since they view Abominations as natural disasters. That outlook would not fly in Orlais.
Also, it wasn't just one ruling they were breaking. They didn't seem confined to Circle, Seers were even ruling traditional communities.
The fact that tensions were at an all time high also probably didn't help.
Wasn't the Rivaini Circle annulled because the mages there could freely interact with their families? Also, if you dislike what the Rivainis do, you will despise the Avvar given what they do is even more spirit related.
We don't really have enough information to determine just how dangerous a Seer is. The Rivaini could simply be more willing to tolerate Abominations going on a rampage than people from the rest of the continent which has some basis in lore since they view Abominations as natural disasters. That outlook would not fly in Orlais.
Also, it wasn't just one ruling they were breaking. They didn't seem confined to Circle, Seers were even ruling traditional communities.
The fact that tensions were at an all time high also probably didn't help.
And the Avvar willingly let themselves become abominations by letting mentor spirits possess their bodies which then leave one their training is done.
The date on the note is wrong. The note itself references the rebellion and the events at the White Spire. If 9:40 were the actual date they would be referring to things that happen in the future. Also, in Asunder, word of the annulment reaches the mages after they've already moved to Andoral's Reach. This confirms that the Seekers who ordered the Annulment were belligerents from a rogue organization.
Everything in Asunder occurs in 9:40 as per the timeline provided by The World of Thedas. In the last chapter, Lambert muses the mages at Andoral will be crushed meaning the most likely timeline of events is as such:
Mages flee from the White Spire-Rivaini Circle annulled-Mages gather at Andoral's Reach, declare independence-Lambert declares the Accord void.
Technically, it could be like so:
Mages flee the White Spire-Reach Andoral's Reach-Lambert declares the Accord void-Rivaini Circle annulled-Mages declare independence.
But that is just overcomplicating it for no reason when even Asunder places Lambert's chapter after Andoral's Reach.
According to the actual law, as decided by the Chantry and the Rivaini government, no. I see no reason to debate it at without firsthand ACCOUNTS
or data suggesting they were a threat that required such a response.
According to Chantry law, which take precedence over everyone else in matter regarding mages except for the Right of Conscription, Abominations are killed on sight unless there is an option to remove only the demon.
Since the Rivaini mages refused to comply by the rules of the Circle, logic dictates they also refused to have their demons removed. Hence, by Chantry law, the Seekers had every right to kill them.
And the Avvar willingly let themselves become abominations by letting mentor spirits possess their bodies which then leave one their training is done.
Yes, they are savages without any civilization to speak of. Did you miss that?
Wasn't the Rivaini Circle annulled because the mages there could freely interact with their families?
Flouting numerous rules including the ban on possession
Yes, they are savages Did you miss that?
And they manage to make it work without Templars. Funny how they have a better knowledge of spirits and magic due to not actually fearing it.
Is it impossible to think that perhaps the Seers in Rivain were given the same type of leeway that the Mortalitasi are given in Nevarra? I mean, Cassandra's uncle seemed to live outside the Circle and was even able to raise children on his own.
The Chantry has been frequently shown to give individual and groups of mages a lot of freedoms that run counter to their own rules. From what the WOT tells us the Seers were given the same privileges.
Yeah but the mortalitasi had the backing of wealth, names like Pentaghast and a nation powerful enough to rival Orlais.
Rivain is poor, isolated, weak, divided. The Seers never stood a chance.
We don't really have enough information to determine just how dangerous a Seer is. The Rivaini could simply be more willing to tolerate Abominations going on a rampage than people from the rest of the continent which has some basis in lore since they view Abominations as natural disasters. That outlook would not fly in Orlais.
Also, it wasn't just one ruling they were breaking. They didn't seem confined to Circle, Seers were even ruling traditional communities.
The fact that tensions were at an all time high also probably didn't help.
My problem is that there was no catalyst for annulment other then the breaking of a rule that no native Rivaini cared about. If a situation like the Ferelden Circle occurred, if apostates were killing random citizens like in the Hinterlands or if abominations were rampart in the streets of Dairsmuid, then I'd understand but from information that we know about the annulment the Seekers just decided to kill everyone after finding out about this tweaking of the typical mage policies.
Why alienate an entire country by destroying a status quo that they desired and worked in practice?
And they manage to make it work without Templars. Funny how they have a better knowledge of spirits and magic due to not actually fearing it.
And they live in huts, wear animal skins, their leader's throne is made of bare stone, etc. In one word, they are primitive.
How well has their "system" served them?
And they live in huts, wear animal skins, their leader's throne is made of bare stone, etc. In one word, they are primitive.
How well has their "system" served them?
Everything in Asunder occurs in 9:40 as per the timeline provided by The World of Thedas. In the last chapter, Lambert muses the mages at Andoral will be crushed meaning the most likely timeline of events is as such:
Mages flee from the White Spire-Rivaini Circle annulled-Mages gather at Andoral's Reach, declare independence-Lambert declares the Accord void.
Technically, it could be like so:
Mages flee the White Spire-Reach Andoral's Reach-Lambert declares the Accord void-Rivaini Circle annulled-Mages declare independence.
But that is just overcomplicating it for no reason when even Asunder places Lambert's chapter after Andoral's Reach.
Ok, so occurring after the rebellion either way.
According to Chantry law, which take precedence over everyone else in matter regarding mages except for the Right of Conscription, Abominations are killed on sight unless there is an option to remove only the demon.
Since the Rivaini mages refused to comply by the rules of the Circle, logic dictates they also refused to have their demons removed. Hence, by Chantry law, the Seekers had every right to kill them.
The rules of the Circle in Rivain, and the laws pertaining to the Seers were Chantry law. The Seekers, at the time, were not affiliated with the Chantry and were operating in opposition to it in addition. Violent response to their incursion would, in turn, be justified.
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